Nip disrespect in the bud before it blooms into the flower of rebellion.

New reader Jessica remarked:

…you see it everyday; women talking down to their husband’s in public, berating and nagging and putting them down for the whole world to see. And yet you rarely if ever see men speaking to women that way in public

To which Julian O’Dea responded with:

If your wife is rude to you when you go somewhere together, stop going there with her. Men berated by their wives at supermarkets should not be there in the first place.

I heard a husband tell his wife to control their dog at the vet’s today. That is so rare that I was not sure he had actually done it. Wives ordering husbands around is more common.

I chimed in to add:

Women will behave about as well or as poorly as you train them to. Don’t want her to disrespect you in public? Then don’t tolerate it even once.

And Julian O’Dea provided an illuminating example:

I was driving my wife to work a couple of days ago,during the middle of her bout of PMT (PMS).. She made a disrespectful remark. So I took her home and told her to catch the bus. She was seriously inconvenienced.  Do not tolerate serious disrespect.

A wise response.

Readers, I must humbly confess a sin to you, out of a desire for other women to learn from my example.  Sadly, my husband has had to do something similar to me that Julian did to his wife.  You see, HHG has asked me not to put sharp knives in the dishwasher because it dulls the blades and warps the handles over time, but sometimes I sneak them in anyway when I’m feeling too lazy to wash them by hand. He’s reprimanded me for it a few times, rather harshly the last time, and I gave him some disrespectful attitude back.  I seem to be intent on rebelling against him on this point.

But oh dear, readers, my naughty hens have now come home to roost! The dishwasher broke yesterday, and he tried to fix it but determined that it could not be fixed.  When I said, well, we’d better go get a new one then, he said…

No.

He said we aren’t replacing it because I wouldn’t obey him on the sharp knives! Believe me, I shed a few tears but to no avail.  He says that now I can just wash everything, and not only the knives, by hand and let it be a lesson.

Today I am looking at the mound of dishes on the counter and feeling very sorry for myself.  Learn from my mistake, ladies.  You may think you can get away with disrespect and disobedience, but those consequences, when they finally arrive, are not worth it.  Because he is nipping my disrespect for his authority in the bud, you can be sure that I will not test his resolve to respond to rebellious disobedience again.  And now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a rather dreadful chore to which I must attend.

Some verses upon which I will be meditating while immersed in dish detergent suds:

  • Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. – Col 3:18
  • Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.  Eph 5:22
  • Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct [… 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. 1 Peter 3:1-2, 5
  • The wisest of women builds her house, but folly with her own hands tears it down. – Proverbs 14:1
  • Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. - Revelation 3:19
  •  For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

 

205 thoughts on “Nip disrespect in the bud before it blooms into the flower of rebellion.

  1. sunshinemary

    Humility is absurdly attractive.

    You see, I am hoping my husband will respond the same way. I am hoping he will read this at work today and say to himself, “Yes, I am a manly man and have brought my wife to heel. She will surely never disobey me again. I believe I will stop at Lowe’s on the way home and purchase a new dishwasher for her.”

  2. deti

    Ladies, take SSM’s points to heart.

    You might learn how to say things like:

    “You were right. I was wrong.”
    “I shouldn’t have done/said that.”
    “I should have listened to you and done/not done/said/not said that.”
    “Please forgive me.”

    and the one thing we’d like to hear you say AND MEAN IT:

    “I’m sorry.”

    [ssm: I tried saying, "I'm sorry." He said, "Yes, I'm sure you are sorry. You are very sorry that you now have no dishwasher.”

  3. dannyfrom504

    i got off the bus in Japan after the gf made a snide comment to me. i spent the rest of the day ignoring texts from her and refused to let her in my house when she came over to apoligize. i texted back for her to go back to the ship, i didn’t want her there.

    never happened again.

    great post Dear.

    [ssm: Thank you, sir! Great story, too.]

  4. Sis

    I used to listen to books on tape when doing the dishes, it helps the time to pass quicker. I’m sorry SSM, dishes suck.

  5. sunshinemary

    Evil daughter of Eve that I am, the thought has occurred to me to just go buy a bunch of paper plates and plastic silverware…

    I wonder what Lisa in Vermont would do in my situation?

  6. Lisa in Vermont

    If you have a bunch of daughters you should seldom have to wash/dry dishes.

    Our dishwasher broke a few years ago and couldn’t be fixed for much less than the cost for a new one. As I’ve mentioned previously, my husband PJ is very frugal and chose not to spend the money to replace it (his plan was to research dishwashers and buy a new one eventually).

    Anyway, at first it was a nuisance, but as my older daughters have become more responsible, they’ve taken over this chore. I’ll still help with pots or pans or do them after breakfast and lunch on the weekends, but for the most part they are my “little dishwashers.”

  7. Stingray

    If you’re like me, you will be sorry now and then very happy about this later. It’s strange how that works, isn’t it? I find myself being grateful for being put in my place when all is said and done.

    I was being petty a few weeks ago at en event with our family. There was a woman sitting behind us and talking repeatedly to her husband in the manner described. I turned to my husband and said that he needed to put her in her place (in a rather rude way) and he said, “Why? It’s not my job.” I stood up, kissed him and then thanked him for being so wonderful.

  8. Farm Boy

    as my older daughters have become more responsible, they’ve taken over this chore

    Bachelors use dogs for that purpose. At least for the pre-wash.

  9. Cautiously Pessimistic

    [...] and the one thing we’d like to hear you say AND MEAN IT:

    “I’m sorry.”

    It’s amazing to me how much energy my wife puts into not uttering this phrase. She will claim black is white, night is day, and up is down to avoid using this phrase. On the occassions that I force her to deal with her sin/error/misjudgement, after hours of focusing and refocusing and REFOCUSING on the issue, she will give a flippant “Okay, fine, I’m sorry.”

    To the OP, I’ve only recently (within the last year) started smacking down the instances of disrespect, and it seems much easier than dealing with the open rebellions. This may, in part, be because I’ve also been learning more effective means of dealing with this crap. The open rebellions are much harder to deal with because short of divorcing her, I have no effective tools for addressing them. And since they aren’t worthy of divorce yet, I’m not going to threaten it.

    On the bright side, smacking down the disrespect (seems) to be keeping the open rebellions from growing.

  10. Jessica

    @Stingray
    “If you’re like me, you will be sorry now and then very happy about this later. It’s strange how that works, isn’t it? I find myself being grateful for being put in my place when all is said and done. ”

    Agreed so much.

  11. Farm Boy

    Women will behave about as well or as poorly as you train them to

    Cesar Millan would agree with you.

  12. Stingray

    SSM, in the future, should you get your dishwasher replaced, just put a bit of soap on the dishrag and them wet it. It’s stay quite soapy long enough to wash several knives. That way you don’t have to fill the sink and go through the whole process. It saves quite a bit of time.

  13. Miserman

    SSM, you are a persistent aberration, a pathology of the status quo, a systemic wrinkle in the Matrix . Any other woman would have thrown a fit, got in HHG’s face, and practically left the man no choice but to hit her or leave, giving her the victory either way. Are you sure you’re an American?

    I’m humming the Guess Who right now.

  14. Lisa in Vermont

    Farmboy,

    Bachelors use dogs for that purpose. At least for the pre-wash.
    I’m guilty about letting our dog handle the pre-wash, especially during the holidays when we’re surrounded by more dishes than we can fit in the sink at once.She is definitely more enthusiastic about this chore than my daughters.

  15. Elspeth

    Excellent post. Not sure what I could say that I haven’t already said on other threads. My husband set a tone for what kind of behavior was acceptable from day one. Actually, before day one and I still chose to say ‘I do’, so that meant I was willing to live with it. I have, and am grateful for it.

  16. Athor Pel

    Now this is useful advice.

    I’m a very literal thinker. For me to see an end-state as reachable I must see each step that goes to that end.
    And this advice of dealing with disrespect in order to avoid open rebellion entirely, well heck, I can actually see a happy ending in that where before I only saw eventual war.

  17. Ton

    Is there any doubt a hand full of men could fill the internet to max capacity with stories of disrespect?

    Stingray eluded to certain forms being a version of loyalty to the herd, which does not elevate women in my eyes. Does a man want a woman who is loyal to him, or loyal to the herd? Perhaps I should be impressed woman can demonstrate loyalty at all?

    One of the things I do enjoy about women is their ability to be unhappy about xyz for awhile then very happy about xyz a few moments afterwards.

    I give women maybe three chances before I next them. No theatrics, two warnings and then it’s be gone bitch.

  18. anonymous_ng

    Personally, I don’t see what the issue is with the dishes. I can generally do all the dishes by hand faster than the automatic dishwasher.

  19. CpC

    An old joke….

    How do you turn your dishwasher into a snowblower?

    Give her a snow shovel.

    [ssm: LOL, good one!]

  20. FuzzieWuzzie

    About the dishwasher, I think Lisa’s advice is good. This is an opportunity for the kids to learn something practical and, with five people in the house, you could use the help.
    About the knives, men are brought up with a deep respect for tools. With proper care, they should last a lifetime. The problem with tools is that you have to keep buying more of them as the need arises. It just doesn’t end spo, they have to last forever. It’s a guy thing but, easy to understand once4 explained.
    I wash everything by hand even though I have a dishwasher. There’s only one in this household.
    It wouldn’t suprise me if HHG changes out the dishwasher this weekend budget permitting.

    PS. Thank you for your admission in the comments on another thread. That was an experience for me too.

  21. Thankful Husband

    I’m probably missing some of the things that make this very important message possible (thank you SSM), but here is the backstory that makes this possible:
    1) she has to know you truly do love her and are there to protect her, care for her, and have her best interest at heart. That regardless she is truly more important than yourself and you are willing to die daily and quite literally for her.
    2) it’s WAY easier to start like Elspeth’s marriage…earlier (before marriage if possible) the better. Habits die hard and change comes extremely hard when everything in the world and church is saying the exact opposite
    3)When at possible, set boundaries about WHO has input into the marriage…nothing worse than having a mother/sister/gf in her ear all day long everyday telling her this is abuse.

    Seriously, I can guarntuee 75% of the women over on Sheila Wray Gregoire’s site (including the site owner) would call this abuse.

  22. Ton

    TH, all she needs to be is fearful of losing you. Love etc doesn’t count for much regarding regarding keeping hypergamy in check

  23. Frank

    You may think you can get away with disrespect and disobedience, but those consequences, when they finally arrive, are not worth it.

    Yes but you denounced a few graphically violent Facebook images, so clearly this is a lie and you are really a closet feminist man-killer working for the feminist imperative.

    [ssm: Curses, foiled again!]

  24. Stingray

    Ton,

    Fear of losing a man is part of respecting him. There is no love without respect. A woman cannot hold onto masculinity. Merely nurture it. It must always be his decision to stay.

  25. Thankful Husband

    Ton,
    I don’t know…what’s to lose if she doesn’t have #1? Not all men (heck a great many) are worth having. If you are man worth having then yes, but that is the whole point of #1 on my list.

  26. dana

    i was actually shocked to discover that (what i thought were) small sneakinesses like that, which i didn’t think mattered because they didn’t involved infidelity were so important! i secretly started having our tenants send the rent to the house instead of my office because i was too lazy to drive there to go pick them up. for weird reasons half the tenants already did send them to the house and our address is on the leases that were made up before i took over the buildings for my family, which i think justified this small disobedience in my mind. my husband had made a fairly big deal out of not letting the tenants mail the rent to the house, but i handle all that, so i figured “what’s the big deal?”. well, one day hes outside and a car pulls up and puts an envelope in the mailbox–he went and got it and saw who it was from and responded as if i had stabbed him in the back. which i guess i did, but i really at the time hadn’t thought it mattered that much (it wasn’t like a cheated on him or flirted! said my hamster). hoo boy, it mattered–i was in the doghouse for days, i never want to make him feel betrayed like that again!

  27. nightskyradio

    I don’t mean to make light of your situation (snicker), but if this is the worst that you and HHG have to deal with (hahahaha), then you’re doing pretty well (bwah ha ha). :D

    Evil daughter of Eve that I am, the thought has occurred to me to just go buy a bunch of paper plates and plastic silverware…

    You best be busting out the grill and BBQing then. Summer is here, make the most of it.

    Lisa will buy you a new grill.

    [ssm: You mock my first world problems?!]

  28. Pingback: Nip disrespect in the bud before it blooms into the flower of rebellion | Viva La Manosphere!

  29. Ton

    Brother I feel for you and look for your posts, however, #1 will not keep a woman. Your actions that say she is easy to replace will. What you state in #1 is the comfort traits of a beta, which women despise. Perhaps they could be #2 on the list but fear is the ‘ real motivator.

    Sorry Stingray, I do think we’ll o you and a few other ladies but love is a non starter. Her “love” is fear of losing the man. Her desire for a man is fear of losing, ( or a ploy to gain him)… I do not believe in love, and those feelings.

  30. Kate

    Nipping in the bud is good parenting advice too. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    [ssm: Quite true.]

  31. Lisa in Vermont

    Frank

    Lisa will buy you a new grill.

    Using her husband’s credit card! ;-)

    Now, Frank do you think PJ would allow me to buy anything on credit? Nope, I’ll have to wait until I get my next commission check to buy SSM the grill.:)

  32. empathologism

    Ton is correct. # 1 has zero bearing on keeping a woman and slowing or preventing her transformation to shrewish behavior. This is “what we are called to do” in church speak. But the context here, and saying that, is akin to the apology the preacher always offers for Paul deigning to mention submission. It is reflex to say #1, it takes the sting out of the Ephesians ordered marriage as heard by the ears of the modern churchian woman because it affords conditionality that doesnt actually exist.

    Hence saying it to women is a trap. If that were spoken in a group of men, doors closed, to men, about men….OK….but context is crucial and it took the two steps made forward thus far in the thread, three steps backwards.

  33. FuzzieWuzzie

    Thankful Husband,
    You’re probably right about the 75% of Shiela’s cohort and Shiela herself condemning this as abuse. From their perspective of the whole purpose of the husband’s existence being to serve the wife, this would qualify as outright insubordination. However, their model doesn’t work. It denies reality and human nature.
    Anyway, i would recommend leaving the job of replacing the dishwasher for the the weekend. If HHG runs into a problem, he’ll need the time cushion.

  34. empathologism

    Now that the dishwasher is broken, he dang well better not replace the dishwasher

    [ssm: Empath, hush yo mouf! I'm hopin' to parlay this here thread into some Maytag sugar! :)]

  35. Frank

    Now, Frank do you think PJ would allow me to buy anything on credit? Nope, I’ll have to wait until I get my next commission check to buy SSM the grill.:)

    LOL

  36. sunshinemary

    You guys are failing to portray me in a sympathetic light here. The goal is for my husband to read this and see that I am a sweet, humble, repentant housewife, worthy of love and large appliances! /kidding

  37. Mary Ellen (@WorkingHomeKpr)

    At one point, we were without a dishwasher for almost a year. During that time, I found myself becoming more efficient in the kitchen. Cleaning as I cooked and not dirtying up so many pots and pans while preparing meals. The last time our dishwasher broke, my husband stated he was not going to sink tons of money into a new one. Even though I loved, loved my fancy Bosch dishwasher, I knew better than to complain about getting a less expensive one!

    [ssm: Welcome, Mary Ellen! Love your blog, btw.]

  38. Ton

    lol, dealing with women is almost 100% like dealing with children so whatever is good advice to manage kids is almost 100% likely to be good advice to men managing women

  39. FuzzieWuzzie

    Empath,
    “I’m uncomfortable with knives being a part of the conflict.”

    That was an understatement of the highest order, worthy of being chiseled into stone.

    SSM,
    Paper plates=bad idea. Cutting back on smart aleck remarks to HHG=good idea.
    FCooking HHG his favorite meal= Great idea!

  40. Thankful Husband

    Empathologism & Ton,
    @ Ton…hey my marriage use to suck…it’s great now.
    I understand fear is part of it, but honestly I’ll disagree with you guys. Maybe I’m alpha enough those beta traits are “acceptable” in my marraige….but I don’t know. Looking at scripture and my own marriage I can’t come to your conclusions…but I’ve got a good woman who very, very rarely rebels and never if it isn’t THAT time of the month. As you know I was agrueing with SSM that yes indeed fear of losing me was a big part of what made the switch in my wife & it is needed if for no other reason than a threat…but it was only effective because I was worth losing. Agree to disagree.

    Be careful with your words guys…I understand what you are saying about the danger of my words. But I can guarantuee there are women reading this who are sitting on the fence deciding whether to jump over and be submissive. I can guarantuee you you’ll have a lot better success when the man’s responsiblity in the marriage is upheld and preached just as loud as her’s.

  41. empathologism

    I can guarantuee you you’ll have a lot better success when the man’s responsiblity in the marriage is upheld and preached just as loud as her’s.

    Are you seriously suggesting there is a dearth of such preaching?

    See, that’s the trap. You/they are saying these things as if they need to be said more, or like they are novel or edgy or they are going to be hard on men and they need to hear it. ITS ALL WE HEAR. And how is it working these days? It isnt.

    The missing part of the message is what we are stating here. We ARE the balance. Those women sitting on the fence are sitting there not because they havent heard your #1, but because they HAVE and it, in a woman’s mind, is a conditional statement. IF he does this THEN I will do this, which then becomes IF he does this to MY satisfaction, then I will do this.

  42. Ton

    I will not modify what I say or do for the sake of a woman. That always leads to failure.

  43. Stingray

    1) she has to know you truly do love her and are there to protect her, care for her, and have her best interest at heart.

    Yes, she needs to know this. What she absolutely must understand is that this means that the husband will give her what she needs. Not what she wants. Also, if she wishes to have some input into deciding what is needed, she had better earn his respect in order to to be in the position to give that input. Boldly declaring “I am an independent, intelligent and empowered woman!!” does nothing to earn that position.

    As has been said before, love is a verb, not just a feeling. A man in this position doing what is best for her and who is caring for her will very often do many things that she does not wish to see happen.

  44. Thankful Husband

    Your goal shouldn’t be to watch Fox News to even out your viewing of MSNC. In an ideal world the whole message should be on one channel. (which the truthful message would be that both republicans and democrats for the most part suck!)

    I know what the message is. But PART of their message is correct, even if they are missing a great big portion of the whole message. It does not make it right for us to give PART of the message, at the expense of the whole message.

  45. Thankful Husband

    I will not modify what I say or do for the sake of a woman. That always leads to failure.

    Ton as long as you aren’t sinning and doing what God calls you to do, then I don’t see a problem. However, if you aren’t doing those two things then YOU are the problem (or part of it). Not every thing brought up by women is false or unimportant…sometimes they have truth on their side. I’m not saying to supplicate her. What I am saying is does she know you are going to get up and go to work for her in the morning to keep the world and cold at bay even though you don’t feel like it? Are you going to pass on the sweet little thing that just offered to bend over for you so you that you are faithful to her? If heaven forbid, some comes into the house are you (and hopefully your pistol) between her and the intruder or are you using her for a body shield? And are you going to come home and hit her because you got drunk or had a bad day at work….I’m not talking about supplicating her. I’m talking about being both a man and a man of god…that’s all. There are a lot of men that are not either men or men of god…

  46. nightskyradio

    SSM – You mock my first world problems?!

    I am shocked! Shocked I am that you think I would ever, ever mock you. I stopped at the level of mild ridicule of your first world problems.

    I’m hopin’ to parlay this here thread into some Maytag sugar!

    Maybe you should get the Maytag repairman as a sugar daddy. I hear he has a lot of free time.

    [ssm: Ha, very funny!]

  47. Entropy is My God

    @ Thankful Husband

    Keep beating that dead horse. Keep telling men we have to give, more, more, more, and get nothing in return. MOAR you cry.

    “I’m not saying to supplicate her. ”

    Yes you are, and you explain just how much below.

    “What I am saying is does she know you are going to get up and go to work for her in the morning to keep the world and cold at bay even though you don’t feel like it?”

    Because We do it. Actions speak louder than words. Your blubber beta supplication bounces off of the whorish veneer that perma-coats most modern women. I don’t go to work for her, I do it for God, and because it is right. Take your pedestal else where.

    “Are you going to pass on the sweet little thing that just offered to bend over for you so you that you are faithful to her?”

    Yes, but because I don’t want to fornicate or commit adultery, not out of some sense of NEO-Pagan feminine goddess worship.

    “If heaven forbid, some comes into the house are you (and hopefully your pistol) between her and the intruder or are you using her for a body shield?”

    The intruder should be so lucky that I have time to get the pistol. Other wise this becomes fun.

    ” And are you going to come home and hit her because you got drunk or had a bad day at work….”

    What about when she hits me????? HUH? explain that? What about when she throws things at me, bites me and draws blood, cuts me with the engagement ring on her finger. Explain that.

    “I’m not talking about supplicating her.”

    Yes, that is exactly what you are talking about.

  48. FuzzieWuzzie

    NightSkyRadio.
    That video just gave me a healthy dose of culture shock. He even popped open the “hood” and displayed the internals. Commercials that appeal to sensibilty and laced with humor aren’t being done anymore. Maybe Madison Ave. has just given up trying to reach men.

  49. Frank

    I can guarantuee you you’ll have a lot better success when the man’s responsiblity in the marriage is upheld and preached just as loud as her’s.

    Thankful Husband: That’s sort of like asking Rush Limbaugh to espouse more liberal talking points just for the sake of balance.

  50. empathologism

    It does not make it right for us to give PART of the message, at the expense of the whole message.

    This makes sense if it didn’t involve the female mind. Women are held accountable to nothing by anyone (outside those wives who are truly in submission to husbands). The hamster is a real thing. The female mind creates conditional statements of imperatives that are God—>Man or God—>woman. Knowing that, it IS loving and leading of men to not feed said hamster.

    You stack the deck against Gods order to offer these escape clauses because most women are unable to NOT employ them. Others are unwilling.

    There is no “expense of the whole message” possible when 100% of the time not spent on these forums it is the other message. This is rational fact even if it flies in the face of emotional fairness. If I have to constantly remind my wife that I know that I have to love her etc etc….in order for her to feel safe to submit….she is not in submission….period. That is not submission.

  51. Thankful Husband

    And that my friends is why my wife, who I have just told you does not rebel, is submissive, and truly is red pill cannot read past when SSM stops writing. What about a bill blue gal? You think she can stomach the one sided BS you guys throw out? You guys seem more interested in venting then in winning the battle against feminism. I’m not telling you to sugar coat it, but I am asking for the WHOLE story.
    @entropy is my god
    Read my posts yesterday…we were there and worse. I truly understand and I understand the venom. But, that venom won’t change your situation unless you channel it through God’s Holy Spirit. Being a godly man does mean being a man in the true sense of the word….but it does ask us to still have the fruit of the spirit and live out 1 cor 13 love. I get it, it’s a tough balance…trust me. John Wayne vs. the mushy crap the church preaches. Times call for both at different times. I wish it weren’t so…..at least my flesh does at times but we are called to live a high standard and radical way of life in Christ.

  52. Entropy is My God

    @ Thankful Husband

    “And that my friends is why my wife, who I have just told you does not rebel, is submissive, and truly is red pill cannot read past when SSM stops writing. What about a bill blue gal?”

    It is venting and I do not care if a blue pill gal changes or not. Truly, knowing what I know I prefer 100% reprehensible behavior that I can answer in kind.

    Let sluts ride carousels, let spinsters get cats, let single mom’s drain the government bank, let women become alpha widows, let fat girls pine for twilight stars. Things don’t need to work, they need to fail. No justice, only revenge.

  53. Ton

    Well I am a sinner, and surely part of the problem in many eyes.

    TH, I did the get up and go to work when I did not want to, worked a second job, and sold things I held dear. Guess how many thank you’ s I received?

    I was at a funeral a while back. Guess how many expressions of respect and gratitude I heard? One lady had two thug spawn and a beta rescuer. Want to bet money on how much gratitude she expressed?

    I was faithful after 7 years of no sex, and willing to defend her physically even during our divorce (which I would not have been willing to do if I knew about her infidelity at the time)

    Never again.

    Woman are no more capable of gratitude then they are of respect. They will fake these things if they fear losing you enough, but don’t posses them in a genuine fashion. Leastwise not in large numbers.

    For fu#ks sake, it’s my job at the moment to escort people around dangerous places. Want to guess how often women say thanks? Mostly they get pissy we won’t act as their vallet

    I am sorry brother but your frame on these things are all wrong. Women act like shit because men, the church, the state and Christians ‘re not withdrawing their protection during there rebellion.

  54. empathologism

    I will not modify what I say or do for the sake of a woman.

    You contradict yourself a lot.

    The entirely of the points you make in these past few posts are 100% you modifying what you are saying for the sake of a woman.

    You are in supplication and do not realize it. You are not offering a solution for anything. This is why this stuff is so important, and so insidious at the same time. Because you can make statements that are true, yet feed the monster we fight against.

    Her submission is between her and God. Your loving her is between you and God. None depends on the other and should not need to therefore be framed as such.

    You and those who say these things as you are (almost all preachers) fear women not accepting Gods imperative. So you add a spoon full of sugar w/ the medicine.

    Try this…because the analogy holds

    Admonish men about porn then, as you do here, add EVERY TIME how much easier it will be for the man if he has a ready and cheerfully willing sex partner. See how that balance works for you. he should not use porn, that’s his God given imperative, she should be willing, that’s hers. They are not conditional. Like submission. But, what i said is true, so try that balance and see how fast you get female flaming back. How dare you.

    Instead, the message is boldly put TO MEN. No issue. I don’t see any men whining that they need to hear the other side to help us digest the fact that we should avoid porn.

    It cuts both ways for those courageous enough to not fear female reprisal.

  55. Ton

    TH you do not win fights by catering to the other side. You win by imposing your will on the enemy for a long enough period to crush their ability to remain engage in combat. Yours is the way that lead this mess

    And you do not take into account how visceral a woman responds to masculine power on display. We will win by controlling the tingles not by being a beta

    Every bit of Christian advice on how to save my marriage was wrong. Every bit of what I do now pulls chicks. Short ugly troll looking mother scooter that I am. That there is enough to know how to deal with women

  56. Thankful Husband

    Ton,
    There are women, my wife is one…there a few others here on this site and I know others who are exactly the opposite of how you describe them. And I get your situation and what you’ve been thru but your ex is not all women. And your ex is the opposite of what a lot of women could be become. Unlike our friend above you I am indeed interested in winning the battle and not just revenge. I have kids. I have christian brothers and sisters. I have a mandate from our Lord to care. And if that doesn’t work…I’ve got selfish reasons. It’s a whole lot easier to live a godly marriage when you aren’t being accused of abuse or being controling, etc. I know the hurt man..but it’s short sighted. You are missing the forest for a tree.

  57. empathologism

    Being a godly man does mean being a man in the true sense of the word….but it does ask us to still have the fruit of the spirit and live out 1 cor 13 love. I get it, it’s a tough balance…trust me. John Wayne vs. the mushy crap the church preaches. Times call for both at different times. I wish it weren’t so…..at least my flesh does at times but we are called to live a high standard and radical way of life in Christ.

    Why do you not understand that folks get this, what you are saying? You keep repeating the same stuff using different words as if people are disagreeing. See that’s the issue…not that you are wrong, but that you cannot see that you are redundant and your MOTIVE for saying these things is corrupted by the female influence.

  58. Griffon

    For whatever it’s worth, were I in HHG’s place I’d move my knives (I bought them before we were married and I maintain them.) to a locked tool box for my use when cooking. I’d then buy a couple of knives from the thrift store for everyone else to use.

    [ssm: LOL, good suggestion.]

  59. Thankful Husband

    Ton,
    Our goal is not to be alpha or beta…our goal is to be like Christ. He was both. Go your way, but it is AWOL of scripture. It might attract chic’s but it won’t keep one forever. Trust me I get it but….

  60. Entropy is My God

    @Thankful Husband

    Take a trip to http://www.zerohedge.com. Read a graph. This corrupt, disgusting, seething pit of new age, neo pagan, feminist, goddess worshiping, filth is going to suffer. You want to prolong that suffering, you are Lot asking if there are 10 righteous people in our Sodom.

    There are not. Pray for what needs to happen. Pray fro an end to the lies, the deceit, the destruction of, men, families, children, and even the women who willfully deceive themselves.

    Or keep telling me that you can save America, one girl at a time with having her husband supplicate just a little bit more. Suck up a little harder. Sacrifice a teensy bit. Man up!

    We will all learn humility when it is forced upon us, as we fight for safe water to drink and hundreds of stomachs empty out fetid filth that is all that is left to drink. When thousands lay bloated and dehydrated, maybe them some will listen. Time will tell.

  61. empathologism

    Say again over? You made zero sense, emp.

    My comment was to TH, and it was to tell his WE GET what he keeps repeating, he neednt keep repeating it. Its not the content its the repetition that shows he has things wrong.

    That help?

  62. empathologism

    It might attract chic’s but it won’t keep one forever

    Actually it is what will raise the chance of forever well beyond all the conditional supplication masquerading as leading

  63. empathologism

    You TH will do as you do. It may even work and you live in wedded bliss till death do you part. You can amp up the supplication again and again as needed to maintain the common modern illusion of the Ephesians ordered marriage. In other words, go along to get along. I/we have no issue with you doing so.

    I take issue with you evangelizing with it as if its a novel idea, as if men need to hear it because they don’t ever hear it, or they don’t understand it. Its Joel and Kathy Davisson with a Groucho mask on, a poor disguise. Go read their site, they say EXACTLY what you are saying. In fact, they, shudder the thought, actually place more accountability on women than you are in your presentation.

    Women today are not held to account. Full stop. Unless and until that changes, you can preach and sell what you are from rooftops among the pastorate, and the graph of familism decline will increase its slope. You see a dichotomy between what we are saying and what you are saying. Its not there. When you no longer see that dichotomy then you will understand. God made no dichotomy on this issue. I sincerely hope you do not learn the hard way. A man can sit and watch family after family fall apart while steeped in exactly what you are saying and still not get it. Only when their own falls apart WHILE they are doing everything mostly right (yet not to HER satisfaction) will he see…..too late.

    if Jesus himself is rejected by man with His perfect love and frame, how much more can a wife reject a husband that preaches emulation of Christ BY HER STANDARDS….not by Gods standards. Thats rubber meets road. Its left to her to say if he is loving etc. Its not left to God, meanwhile God wrote the book, best let HIM decide and she worry about His decision about her submission.

  64. Thankful Husband

    emp,
    You seem to have something against me….yesterday I was going against scripture. Today I am for scripture but am still wrong. Hey whatever works for you…but I think your wrong (even though I’m right by your own admission????). Sorry, I’ve proven in my own marriage and I read it in the word of God. You aren’t changing my mind.

    Enthropy,
    I’m at zerohedge everyday…it’s kind of like here. Gives you a whole different perspective. You wonder how CNBC and zero look at the same graph and come up with totally different conclusions…but yes. Like here, zero is a lot closer to the truth.

  65. Deep Strength

    Thankful Husband is incorrect as per usual. It’s great that he has a submissive wife that is willing to follow his lead and understands him, but that is not the case with the majority of Christians now.

    Here’s the revelation:

    If you have children and they act up it is your duty as a parent to discipline them to teach them not to have sinful behavior. As a parent you don’t want to discipline your children but you know it’s necessary that they learn lessons. Rebuke is necessary.

    “Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.” Proverbs 13:27

    If you have a wife and she is not submitting, Churchianity et al tells you to reinforce that behavior by being nicer, helping out more, doing more things around the house?

    You don’t positively reinforce rebellion unless you want more rebellion. That is NOT LOVE.

    Yes, women are supposed to be following Scriptural commands, but everyone sins and can go wayward. That’s why Lisa and SSM have posted these things to show us.

    Wayward wives need to be rebuked with Scripture, not positively reinforced in their rebellious behavior by the husband doing more for them.

    The husband should take a hardline stance against rebellion in his own home. That is loving the wife as Christ loved the church. Catering to her feelings to make her happy in this case is sparing the rod from the child who needs discipline.

    Obviously, to rebuke in love is the most obvious way to go about this. You want to point out logically and Scripturally where the wife is incorrect. You want to be loving in your attitude toward her, and ask for her side of the story and attempt to work things out in an amicable way.

    As SSM and other women have stated, suggestion that you talk it over when she is not emotional is a good route. If the woman wants to live according to God’s will she will usually think things over and come around when she is not as emotional.

    However, if a wife is steeped in her rebellion there is always one other option.

    The nuclear option, that is not un-Scriptural, is to suggest separation where the husband lives alone celibately and takes his financial support with him away from the wife. If the wife is unwilling to live under his authority as a husband then the husband should live separately from the wife.

    If the wife wants to be Ms. Independent then she should be allowed to be, but without any positive reinforcement from the husband.

    “Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife.” Proverbs 21:19

    Not ironically, most husbands would rather live alone than with a wife like that, as the Proverb states.

  66. seriouslypleasedropit

    “You see, I am hoping my husband will respond the same way. I am hoping he will read this at work today and say to himself, “Yes, I am a manly man and have brought my wife to heel. She will surely never disobey me again. I believe I will stop at Lowe’s on the way home and purchase a new dishwasher for her.”

    While I have no doubt SSM knows this at least intellectually, there is an error in how she hopes HHG will think:

    “Yes, I am a manly man and have brought my wife to heel…”

    This is a nuanced issue, and can be confused for feminist pandering, so I must be detailed. Men cannot base their sense of masculinity on the obedience of their wives. Discipline must be administered because she is out of line, not because his mojo needs topping off. Taken too far, masculinity-as-domination-over-women leads to spousal abuse—the real kind.

    A man’s sense of manliness should come rather from his obedience to God. Note that it is entirely possible to exhibit dominant qualities while under strict obedience.

    Just as a woman should not allow her children to determine her femininity, so should a man not allow a woman to determine his masculinity.

    [ssm: Makes sense to me. My comment was in jest of course. If I were really trying to manipulate HHG, I wouldn't write it here. :)]

  67. Frank

    Thankful Husband: Your grievance here would really be more constructive if you were addressing the church instead of a blog run by a Christian wife who is attempting to provide an alternative viewpoint to the 10 million other blogs out there that eviscerate and deride men on a daily basis.

    In church, there SHOULD be a balance. Both husbands and wives SHOULD be held to account on how they behave towards each other according to biblical standards. With that in mind, if your church has a proclivity for rebuking husbands while giving wives a pass on everything (as a predominant number do), you’d be better served in calling for balance in THAT setting than coming on here and whining that the commenters here pick on gooyyles too much.

  68. empathologism

    TH, you clearly do not understand the words Ive written. Not because you disagree. But because you see me as disagreeing.
    I can’t help you, you are in a feedback loop of churchian rationale. I have nothing against you whatsoever, hell I used to BE you. I’m trying to help. If you got it good, keep on keepin on. I will not leave your frame unchallenged here though because though you write words that are true, the message you send feeds evil and rebellion. You can’t see past either/or. Maybe someone far more eloquent than me can bust down the evangelical feminist facade.

  69. Thankful Husband

    Okay, what exactly did i say that was supplication? Quote me please and show me where it goes against scripture’s teaching on what a husband is supposed to do (please use scripture)

    If you can’t do that then please politely shove it…or I’ll email you my address and we can settle this like men and not a bunch of pansies hiding behind a computer! Seriously guys…I said nothing that was supplication…Nada. All I said is the very basic, foundational things that make submission easy and willing for a wife to do. If you want her to jump, like someone said yesterday, you better be there to catch her.

  70. thehap

    Gosh, SSM’s comments section is a rough neighborhood. When do the switchblades and jazz hands come out?

    [ssm: LOL @ jazz hands!]

  71. Thankful Husband

    Emp & Frank,
    I’m not trying to balance out SSM or the feminist view point of the blog…I agree that feminism has run crazy and is evil and man hating….however some of the commentators here say things about women that are simply untrue for a great many women. They happen to be just as wrong as the feminists. I enjoy the feminist bashing slant of the blog…it’s much needed. What is not needed is an all out assault on every woman. Bash feminists…please go for it. Lastly, I don’t have a problem calling for women to submit. I do have a problem with men coming on here sounding totally unlike christian husbands and asking wives to be totally LIKE christian wives. Those are my only beef’s. I don’t expect more out of my wife than I am willing to put out.

    Last emp, if my words are true….how then are they evil? All truth comes from God…so how can they be evil?

  72. empathologism

    Brother…you argue like a girl.

    I said your words lead to evil. Lead to.

    Lastly it is not you asking her to jump. It is God. Shall she worry he has her back? All your scripture and you miss that

  73. Saint Velvet

    My husband would throw the dishwasher out in the yard and me after it if I involved him in repairing it. I realize this is a “own husband” thing but it wouldn’t occur to mine to involve himself in stuff I’m supposed to be in charge of. Otoh I wouldn’t put a good knife in the dishwasher (ducks). That’s kind of like kicking your own ass, Sunshine. Apparently in more ways than one. ;p. now here’s some coconut oil for your dishpan hands.

    [ssm: Thanks, m'dear! I do the dishes, but HHG repairs stuff that breaks because I have no idea how anything works. To me, all this stuff just runs by magic or something. :)]

  74. Ton

    Thanks Emp, I enjoy your posts, and TH as well, but was flat out lost.

    Perfect TH, as I do not want one forever. I cannot imagine a woman exists that I would be able to invest in like that. Know way to much about women

    I follow Chirst the best I can, but not the BFF magic wish granting version of the modern church. It does not speak to me, but the Christ who drove out money changers, and is coming back with a sword…

    Anyrate, clearly God responds sometimes, and sometimes His answer is no. Those who get fire support from Sky6 should understand not all folks do. I do not have an issue with God electing to say no, His ways are His ways. Those who get His fire support ought to recognise we don’t all get blessed in such a way. Personally I have been blessed in better ways. Better to my reckoning

    My goal is…. complex but in large part it is to be me as the Almighty intended. Which is counter to what passes as Christianity these days.

    For the 10k time, TH, it’s not about my ex, it is about how common my story is, how I see these things played out day in and day out in the lives of other men, or just going to Starbucks.

    You will not have what you want between the sexes TH without an overwhelming, soul crushing victory. Your way is the way of appeasement and propagating the problem.

    I do love you TH, your not at the typical save marriage feed men to the marriage meat grinder, but you are still wrong.

    As far as I can tell, a man may take on a second wife, but cannot withdrawal all fiscal support unless she was unfaithful

  75. Thankful Husband

    So my words are true but lead to evil….yeah, that makes WAY more sense man.

  76. Stingray

    To me, all this stuff just runs by magic or something.

    Wait . . . . . you mean . . . it doesn’t?!?!?!?

    [ssm: So they say, but you can't prove it by me. :)]

  77. Ton

    Switchblade? No thanks, a man can get hurt doing such foolish things. Back shooting at 800 yards while the other guy has his pants around his ankles taking a dump… much more my style

    Sorry TH, everything you said was out both sides of the mouth and default supplication. The whole modern church part of masking her feel loved is supplication. Loving her vs making her feel loved (does she know you do xyz for her etc) are not at all the same thing

  78. Thankful Husband

    Ton,
    Man I understand but your picking the parts of the bible you like just like the feminists do…we can defeat one tyrant just to become one ourselves.

    Guys I did not want to hit below the belt, but we are men right so lets look at this rationally. I’ve got one divorced man, one single man and what three fella’s whose wives aren’t submissive argueing against me who has been there, done that and come out the other side victorious. You’ll forgive me but I don’t take winning tips from the fellow I just beat…sorry I know that was low and held off as long as I could….but the never ending you’re wrong brings out the kick your ass John Wayne in me.

  79. empathologism

    And you have me. Goodness man you are acting like a dim bulb. Who was hit below the belt? What are you on about with the self congrats?

    You ought to know better since I wrote half my life story to you and your wife on email when you John Wayne’d the idea that I guest post on her blog. She even saw merit in what I was saying and invited me to write it on her own site. How weird is that? You know this, you were on copy on all of it. You disliked my words then.

    Right wrong or otherwise you are not plowing any new ground. I hear your stuff all day every day. We all do, all from the same frame, that it needs to be said.

    Lets stop while we are ahead.

  80. ballista74

    SSM, you know as a single man who has used a dishwasher perhaps a dozen times in his whole life (and since I’m single I don’t have a wife to do it for me), it’s very hard to find any sympathy here. It’s especially puzzling too some of the comments that have come out of this. Is work ethic that low in most women these days?

  81. Ton

    Yea not seeing the low blow there myself

    How many queers have you stoned to death TH?

  82. Thankful Husband

    Umm….you got the wrong guy man. Sorry, my wife has never invited anybody to write a guest blog on her scrapbooking blog…especially a dude. You have mistaken me for someone else my friend…hence why you think we have history when we have none.

  83. Ton

    Point being we all pick and choose. I am more upfront about it and my weakness as a sinner

  84. Thankful Husband

    Ton, I’m glad…couple of those fellows seem a might bit sensitive and I didn’t want to rub salt in their wounds…

  85. Thankful Husband

    Ton, my point being if we all pick and choose then don’t scream at the others they didn’t pick the part you liked…cause they’ll only scream back you didn’t pick that part they liked. If we can’t accept a common goal (which hopefully is the whole of scripture) then we are doomed.

  86. Ton

    As I said sometimes God says yes, sometimes He says no. His answer for TF was yes, for me and millions more it was no. Such is life.

  87. Ton

    I’m not the one making an issue of folks picking and choosing, you are TH. To a degree I think picking and choosing is how it should play out as we are made for different missions

    Poor words for a complex topic but I’m sure you understand my point.

  88. sunshinemary

    you know as a single man who has used a dishwasher perhaps a dozen times in his whole life (and since I’m single I don’t have a wife to do it for me), it’s very hard to find any sympathy here. It’s especially puzzling too some of the comments that have come out of this. Is work ethic that low in most women these days?

    If I were single, I doubt I’d use a dishwasher, but washing dishes for a large family does get a bit tiresome. Modern appliances exist, and it isn’t sinful to use them; I’m sure most of us use a vacuum cleaner rather than dragging our rugs outside to beat them, for example.

    But no matter; the point of this essay was not work ethic or lack there of. The point was to discuss the consequences for disrespect and to highlight the importance of there being consequences for wifely disobedience. And it was also meant as a general exhortation to wives to submit to, respect, and obey their husbands.

  89. Farm Boy

    If I were single, I doubt I’d use a dishwasher, but washing dishes for a large family does get a bit tiresome. Modern appliances exist, and it isn’t sinful to use them

    So you don’t like the dog idea….

  90. Iowa Jim

    A long memory and a willingness to stick to one’s guns does wonders for a man. I have a friend of some forty years’ standing who is amazing. He holds a PhD in mathematics, is, in fact, quite well-known as an applied mathematician, plays piano well enough that he has competed in the amateur section of the Van Cliburn competition (you have to submit a recording of your playing before they’ll allow you to compete), and is also quite a good classical guitarist. His first wife, who probably weighed three-hundred pounds (quite literally, and I’m a stickler for using the word “literally” correctly) used to refer to him as “Bonzo”, referring to the chimpanzee who appeared in a couple of movies with Ronald Reagan. She was amazed when he just walked out one day. He later divorced her and is now married to a woman who is deeply in love with him. Like the mills of God, the mills of men like that grind slowly, but they grind exceeding fine.

  91. Lily

    Farm Boy – my Dad tells a story of his family (not sure I should admit this) whom nailed their plates to the table. When it was time to “wash the dishes” they called the dogs in and let them at it. The plates were then “clean” for the next meal.

    YUCK!

  92. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    If it helps, both Lisa and I like the dog idea. She said the level of cooperation and enthusiam from the dog was pretty amazing. Makes life easier on the garbage disposal too.

  93. Empathologism

    Fair enough. You have the same handle. Exact same.
    Regardless, your silly assignment of this guy is divorced and that guy has a rebellious wife lacks merit and accuracy. Why I’m addicted to this argument is the main question.

    I’ve picked the both scriptural admonitions, the one to men and the one to women. God said them through Paul, to men, and to women. Not once did He make any conditions for either to follow His instructions that were dependent on the other following His instructions.

    God told men to love and wash with the word.
    God told women to submit.

    You said if you, the man, are going to ask her to jump you must make her have a feeling of safe landing. This is incorrect because if I ask my wife to submit, and thereby if I must make her feel safe with me so that she can follow my asking, then she is not submitting, at best she is cooperating. And that is fine…..but it is not submission. You describe a negotiation, not an imperative.

    Similarly if I were to say, if she wants me to love then she should submit and that makes it easier for me, I am not loving unconditionally as God said. That too is a negotiation. But she shouldn’t be telling me to love, God told me.

    This is too simple to misunderstand. What side have I picked? What have I left out? Neither.

    You over complicate it based on what you are accustomed to hearing from pulpits that fear the emails they receive if they dare teach submission in the way I described it above…..which is exactly scriptural. Adding conditions to have the husband do things to make it easier is not scriptural whatsoever. It is an unequivocal call on her. If you cannot utter those words-it is an unequivocal call on her-and not feel compelled to equivocate about what you must do, then the relationship lacks submission as described in Ephesians.

    Do you hear , when it is preached men love your wives, do you hear anything at all attached to that that has her doing something to make it easier? No, in fact men are told simply to step up…..and that’s as it should be. Same with women. Step up and follow Gods clear teaching…..no excuses.

  94. Thankful Husband

    EMP,
    I picked this handle a couple months ago out of the blue…my bad if I have stolen it. I hear what you are saying and I agree only in theory & doctrine. If 100% of wives stop doing their end of it today you will find within a month for many, a year for a smaller share, and a decade for a very, very small percentage of men still holding on doing their end. Eventually all will stop. Same goes in reverse. And while you will not find the commands to do it here, you will throughout the NT. Your arguement is great for a classroom. Piss poor for life application and presenting the whole truth to others.

  95. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lily 6:46pm,
    Someone in your Dad’s family had a talent for telling “tall” tales. Can’t see how it could actually happen; wouldn’t the plates shatter when nailed?

  96. FuzzieWuzzie

    Somewhere upthread, it was mentioned that all these appliances and contraptions must work by magic.
    Does this make handyman husbands, by default, sorcerers?

    In a similar vein, young women don’t have to be so quick anymore to give their virginity. No more dragons, no more virgin sacrifices.

    As to curbing wifely disobedience, as a never married, don’t ask me. If I had an answer, it would get me in trouble.

  97. Lily

    Lily 6:46pm,
    Someone in your Dad’s family had a talent for telling “tall” tales. Can’t see how it could actually happen; wouldn’t the plates shatter when nailed?

    I admit my Dad is a story teller, but he swears this one is true. He always refused to eat at these peoples house. They were metal camping plates. So no, those wouldn’t shatter. You know, the blue enameled with white speckles?

  98. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lily,
    I can see it now. A true story of bachelors gone VERY wrong.
    Have to admit that I am still laughing. Thanks

  99. Stacey

    Julian O’Dea sounds like a jackass. In that example, he certainly didn’t love his wife as Christ loves the church. I don’t think Jesus would have driven a woman back home and left her to fend for herself on the bus just because she made a rude comment while dealing with PMS. He would have treated her with compassion, and forgiven her again and again.

  100. Chris@QPC

    Loved this post.

    Women can get away with disrespecting their husbands because it’s the norm. Men can’t disrespect their wives because then somehow it become “verbal abuse” Crazy!

    My wife and I were visiting her parents one weekend. We went out to a coffee shop to share a drink together. That’s fine. She wanted a snack, too, and asked me if I wanted something. I told her no and she could get it with her own “blow money”. (We keep a budget.) She didn’t like that and didn’t think it was “fair” and we proceeded to argue in the coffee shop in front of some of her family, including her mom. We stopped and decided to “talk about it” later. That later was at 12:30am at her parent’s that we stayed the night in. I went to bed a hour before her and she came in and woke me up to “talk”. That quickly became a yelling match. She left and slept on the couch. The aftermath: Everything was my fault. Mother-in-law gave me the speech in the morning, sent me emails, called a member of the family who is a pastor, who told me I should just let things go sometimes. She even let me know that I was doing the same things that her friend’s ex-husband did before they divorced because of his “abuse”. My wife was not challenged at all. Nobody seemed to care that she was the one who threw the tantrum about paying for a stupid Rice Crispy Treat herself, argued with me in the coffee shop, woke me up in the middle of the night to “talk”, or was also raising her voice keeping her mom awake. Nobody told her that she should have just let it go. It just confirmed the things I have been learning and seeing about how lop-sided churchianity is.

    I was in a Family Christian store recently , which I can only go into for so long before I want to burn the place down, and a man was looking at music CDs in the across from me. Then his wife came up was annoyingly controlling. “Why are you looking at that one. Why don’t you get this one. You won’t like that one. I don’t think those songs aren’t appropriate.” Blah, blah, blah. Evidently, she had castrated him long ago.

  101. Lisa in Vermont

    I have a feeling SSM’s husband is just trying to teach her a lesson and that they’ll be shopping for a new dishwasher over the weekend, once he’s made his point by forcing her to wash a few loads by hand. Of course, SSM will know better than to ever put the steak knives in it.

    This isn’t the same scenario as when a husband refuses to buy a new dishwasher (or grill, or trailer hitch for that matter) just to exert control over the family finances. Having been verbally stoned on the last two threads I won’t beat a dead horse. But I will concede that being obedient to a husband who has that mind frame is the cross that a Christian woman trying to live according to Ephesians 5:22 must bear.

  102. Pingback: The “broken windows” theory of crime, and dealing with women and children | Julian O'Dea

  103. infowarrior1

    @Thankful Husband

    I understand fear is part of it, but honestly I’ll disagree with you guys. Maybe I’m alpha enough
    those beta traits are “acceptable” in my marraige….but I don’t know. Looking at scripture and my own marriage I can’t come to your conclusions…but I’ve got a good woman who very, very rarely rebels and never if it isn’t THAT time of the month. As you know I was agrueing with SSM that yes indeed fear of losing me was a big part of what made the switch in my wife & it is needed if for no other reason than a threat…but it was only effective because I was worth losing. Agree to disagree.

    Be careful with your words guys…I understand what you are saying about the danger of my words. But I can guarantuee there are women reading this who are sitting on the fence deciding whether to jump over and be submissive. I can guarantuee you you’ll have a lot better success when the man’s responsiblity in the marriage is upheld and preached just as loud as her’s.

    Man’s responsibility is already preached just as loud. What we are doing is doing a counter-balance. Also there is no way to sugar-coat our message if what we say is true then if it sounds like venom so be it we ought to please god rather than men.

    Now about men making submission easy for women. Now that is a problem. You see. A rebellious woman can just say he is not being loving enough or not doing this enough etc. which women are very capable of doing ample food for her rationalization. And vice versa. No it should not be conditional but imperative.

    No 2. We can only assume “All women are like that” because yours is the exception not the rule. Unless those women actively stand against feminism. We can only assume that they are aiding and abetting the enemy. Women are herd-creatures and herd-creatures follows the herd.

  104. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lisa,
    No two scenarios are likely to be the same. If SSM is going to bring one out as an example, it would make sense for it to be cut and dried. There’d be less emotional exposure that way.
    As for you, yes, you have been done to death here. At least you’ve had a day to recover.
    Someone did have a happy thought for you last night. If PJ has discovered Athol Kay, You’re in for some fun and he’ll make you a happy Lisa.
    It’s good to know that PJ is coming around. All your requests benefit the whole family which does give you some credibility.
    One last thought, if PJ turns down a request, there should be a reason and he should tell you. After he does, give him the benefit and hold off on argueing.
    Stay happy

  105. Julian O'Dea

    I actually used to do the dishes quite often until we got a dishwasher. It was one of the domestic tasks I didn’t mind doing, especially as my wife used to cook all the meals. I found it restful, time to think, and I liked to get the plates nice and clean (my wife is a good housewife, but from a rather rough and rustic school). When we got a dishwasher, I was the one who benefited most.

    There are however certain jobs I absolutely refuse to do: run laundry, iron, mop, and do grocery shopping being the main ones. I do not even accompany my wife on grocery shopping trips. I found that it seemed to lead to arguments. I suspect that, subconsciously, a woman feels that her husband should not be there. (I did go with her when we were a young couple without children.)

    Now that I am semi-retired, I often cook the family dinner. But my wife always plates and serves it.

    A man has to set at least a few firm ground rules.

    Wives must know the boundaries. As SSM indicated, women will behave exactly as badly as men permit.

    As for nipping things in the bud, I wrote about this some time ago. I haven’t read it in a while, and it got pretty rough in the comments, but it might be illuminating:

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/the-broken-window-theory-of-crime-and-dealing-with-women-and-children/

    There is a name my wife has been calling me for some time now, as a sort of joke. I put my foot down this week, and told her she was not to call me that again. I expect to be obeyed on that score, and so far she has not used it again.

  106. Bob33

    Lisa,

    It sounds like your husband was controlling the money (your money!) just to be controlling. He was not loving you as Christ loves the Church. I am sure Jesus–who preached love and compassion–would have been hurt by his ungallant and discourteous behavior.

    He broke his Covenant with you. In such cases, you are not called to bear a cross like that. Do you really believe in a God who wants you to be subject to irrational, controlling behavior?

    Besides, nowhere in Scripture does it say that a husband controls the money that the wife earns. Don’t you remember the Proverbs 31 woman? She didn’t ask her husbands permission before she planted that vineyard.

    Buy a grill when you need one. It certainly seems like he appreciates it now. And always buy what you need to keep the kids safe.

  107. Adsignatos Day

    “Julian O’Dea sounds like a jackass. In that example, he certainly didn’t love his wife as Christ loves the church.”

    It sounds more like how God loved Israel during the old covenant. Remember when God struck Uzzah dead when he touched the ark even though God specifically told the Israelites how to handle the ark? Read 2 Samuel 6:1ff and 1 Chronicles 13. Of course, God’s station and man’s station are totally different, so striking your wife dead is out of the question, but one can think of hypothetical hamster-speak in the case of Uzzah and the accompanying men:

    zomg why u strike Uzzah dead for God?!!!!!!! he tried to prevent the ark from falling!!! You’re not showing the love of Christ! :( :( :(

    Neither the Father nor the Son nor the Spirit tolerate BS. Why, then, should men?

    “I don’t think Jesus would have driven a woman back home and left her to fend for herself on the bus just because she made a rude comment while dealing with PMS.”

    Public transportation is now a heinous crime against women. HOW DEVIOUS CAN SUCH A HUSBAND BE?! DOES HUMAN SIN KNOW NO BOUNDS?!!

    “He would have treated her with compassion, and forgiven her again and again.”

    Forgiveness is conditional and based on the other party’s repentance. We should forgive as the Lord forgave us…but how DID God forgive us? He waited for us to repent first, and then He forgives, and then atoning sacrifice of Christ becomes efficacious.

    I’m sick and tired of this unilateral, auto-matic, auto-magic, and unbiblical forgiveness that tends to permeate the evangelical culture. To forgive without the other party repenting is called cheap grace. To forgive when the other person repents first is core of reconciliation.

    Forgiveness isn’t a feeling, or letting go of anger or bitterness (as necessary as that is). It definitely isn’t a husband kow-towing to his wife for making her feel unhappy (as if she her bitchiness and disrespect to her husband should be condoned and simply passed over).

  108. Sarah's Daughter

    Julian O’Dea sounds like a jackass. In that example, he certainly didn’t love his wife as Christ loves the church. I don’t think Jesus would have driven a woman back home and left her to fend for herself on the bus just because she made a rude comment while dealing with PMS. He would have treated her with compassion, and forgiven her again and again.

    How sad you don’t understand Jesus. Do you really believe he was a supplicating man? Do you understand what happened with the woman at the well? Yes he forgives. So does Julian. But it is only after the lesson has been taught. In Jesus’ case with the woman at the well, she got to know right quick that she can not hide a thing from him. He was not concerned of her embarrassment or feelings about this. He was interested in her knowing Truth. Julian was most concerned for his wife’s obedience to God’s commands which is for wives to respect their husbands. As a brother in Christ he did what was right. As a husband, he did what was required. Love – Agape is not often comfortable. It is instructional and the highest form of love there is. A love that is so concerned with another’s walk with God that it instructs and disciplines.

  109. Ton

    PMS, permissible manslaughter syndrome.

    Why do women think PMS, is their monthly get out of jail free card? A man cuts his arm off with a chainsaw and tells his wife to hurry the hell up with the 911 call is a jerk/ asshole, while women expect a pass on their PMS behavior…..

  110. Julian O'Dea

    Thank you, SD. I am loathe to defend myself, because I genuinely don’t care that much, but I did not know it was PMS/PMT at the time. It had gone on for five days (seriously). The buses are safe. When she came home, she actually apologised for her remark.

    She and I are quite happy now. I am not a masochist and I have never seen any need to tolerate needless suffering caused by wifely verbal abuse and rudeness.

  111. Julian O'Dea

    Chris, my mother-in-law would never do that. She has been great. Never interferes, except to correct my wife on occasion. Amazing woman. My mother, on the other hand, does interfere. Big mistake.

  112. Lisa in Vermont

    Juilian,

    Thank you, SD. I am loathe to defend myself, because I genuinely don’t care that much, but I did not know it was PMS/PMT at the time.

    Could your wife be going through perimenopause? I only ask b/c I’ve never had PMS until the past several months In fact, my husband once told me that he’s never had a clue as to when I’m expecting my period b/c there are no signs such as moodiness, cramps, etc.

    But recently that’s changed to the point where I feel like I’m temporarily insane just before that time of the month. I’m talking about rage to the point where I could probably strike my husband (I’m normally the meekest, most soft-spoken person you could ever meet). I have to literally bite my tongue to control it.

    I was actually experiencing this when I flipped out to buy the grill. Anyway, there’s a blood test your wife’s doctor can run to see if her PMS has gotten worse b/c of perimenopause and there are hormonal treatments available. My doctor has suggested this is probably the case with my unprecedented mood swings though I have been tested yet to confirm.

    Don’t misunderstand; I’m not saying that PMS should ever be used to excuse bad behavior. I’m just saying that it could explain it.

  113. FuzzieWuzzie

    Adsignatos Day,
    From time to time, I’ve heard people refer to the story of Uzzah and the Ark. Decades ago, I heard that someone at the Uninversty of Ohio built a replica based ont 6the instructions in Exodus. They ended up having to destroy it. It was that dangerous. No one should be blamed for Uzzah’s death; it was an accident.

    Jullien,
    Followed the link to your post. Those comments were, as Daffy Duck would say, despicable.
    Hope they have left you alone since.

  114. thehap

    @Bob33

    You are absolutely incorrect.

    “Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”

  115. Adsignatos Day

    To my mind, and for some strange reason, the way you wrote your little anecdote came off as if you had “dry anger”. More of a, “I don’t tolerate BS. BS does not compute. Go to bus” rather than any sort of effusive emotional language.

    Or could it just be a general masculine trait.

  116. Sarah's Daughter

    In the event it wasn’t pure satire:

    Do you really believe in a God who wants you to be subject to irrational, controlling behavior?

    In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and [a]respectful behavior.

    God puts no qualifier on his command for wives to submit to their husbands. NONE. No matter how irrational or controlling. No matter if he’s a believer or a vile satanist. What do you think “disobedient to the word” means? God says “EVEN IF” they are disobedient. How is that not clear?

    Yes indeed God does not only want a wife to be subject to such a husband, he commands it to her. Like a boss.

    It’s as if…he knows something of the nature of men – you know, his creation. It seems he has a clue how this turns out and has a purpose for commanding such things.

  117. Deep Strength

    Bob33 is the same dude from the other thread where we were discussing Lisa’s situation who made one comment like that and then disappeared never to comment again.

    Thus, I’m probably guessing some sort of bad trolling attempt.

  118. Julian O'Dea

    FuzzieWuzzie.

    Yes, I can be provocative and so on, but those people seem to be leaving me alone now. There seem to be blogs dedicated to abusing people who write anything socially conservative or anti-feminist. They focus on SSM, TC, CL (when it was still extant) and, in a lesser way, my blog. I even got my own blog post once on a blog called something like No More Mister Nice Guy. I just ignored that and I don’t read them anymore. They sit around going “Wow. Just Wow!” like a whole lot of old farts tut-tutting over some new moral outrage. I picture them as the dumber type of feminist, and rather effeminate men.

    I think they have just given up on me as a hopeless case. But these creeps are out there, and they read all the Manosphere blogs closely.

    Lisa, that was thoughtful. Yes, we have considered perimenopause. The other possibility is that it is a side-effect of an anti-inflammatory drug she is taking. Or just PMT. Or maybe I am just very annoying …

    And, yes, she never had much trouble with her periods as a young woman.

    The problem is that neither husband nor wife may have insight. One cannot see one’s wife’s hormonal state. And, in my own experience with drug side-effects, to things like antihypertensives, one can have little insight into one’s own mental state. And, seriously, most men will know what it is to have done something “under the influence of testosterone”, which makes you look back and shake your head.

  119. Julian O'Dea

    Adsignatos Day, yes I am an INTJ. See my blog, passim.

    I do get angry and I was boiling with anger on that occasion, but it was under control. I will not tolerate serious disrespect. I have no problem with teasing, but I have my limits.

    I am not completely sure about the proper nature of wifely obedience, but I think a wife should comply with any request which is not clearly immoral or against reason, unless her husband is insane or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. If she thinks he is wrong, by all means argue it out, if there is time.

    I do think respect is crucial. “The woman was created for the man, not the man for the woman.” It is hard to be sure, but I believe if I were a woman and a wife, I would see the importance of respect.

    And, bluntly, how do these disrespectful, rebellious women ever find enough submissive spirit to open their limbs to their husbands in bed? I genuinely find it a puzzle.

  120. FuzzieWuzzie

    @Julian
    “And, bluntly, how do these disrespectful, rebellious womenever find enough submissive spirit to open…”

    You just may have asked the sixty four thousand dollar question.
    My guess is some form of one sided conditional acceptance.

  121. Deep Strength

    I think a large portion of the men in the manosphere are INTJs.

    We’re just drawn into the manosphere because it brings structure to the world, whereas feminism was just confusion and inverse cause and effect.

  122. nightskyradio

    Deep Strength – I think a large portion of the men in the manosphere are INTJs.

    We’re just drawn into the manosphere because it brings structure to the world, whereas feminism was just confusion and inverse cause and effect.

    A lot of the sphere is INTJ, or not far from it. It’s one of the last few refuges for ordered thought. Feminism is just a flavor of letting one’s emotions do all the driving, unguided-missile style. The 180 degree opposite of most INTJs.

  123. Stacey

    Julian – I’m sorry I called you a jackass. It was uncalled for and uncharitable of me – something I shouldn’t have spoken, let alone thought. I stumbled on this website by accident, and since nearly everything written here is the opposite of what I believe, it made me angry, but I shouldn’t have made such a snide remark. I wish there was a way for people of opposing views like us to have a healthy dialogue, but I know there’s not. Both sides are too stubborn to listen to the other, and honestly, a desire to hold strongly to your convictions is something I admire. So I wish you well, and I hope God blesses your life.

  124. Deep Strength

    @Stacey

    Julian – I’m sorry I called you a jackass. It was uncalled for and uncharitable of me – something I shouldn’t have spoken, let alone thought. I stumbled on this website by accident, and since nearly everything written here is the opposite of what I believe, it made me angry, but I shouldn’t have made such a snide remark. I wish there was a way for people of opposing views like us to have a healthy dialogue, but I know there’s not. Both sides are too stubborn to listen to the other, and honestly, a desire to hold strongly to your convictions is something I admire. So I wish you well, and I hope God blesses your life.

    Why are you too stubborn to listen?

    What has anyone here said that is unbiblical and/or unscriptural?

    Everyone here would capitulate their opinion if you can point out where we are in error.

  125. Looking Glass

    Only if you bring logic and, given the Christian context, proper theological appreciation of the sources. We’re quite willing to listen if we’re wrong about something (which is why we’re here, in the first place), but any appeal to emotional responses will be met with a response appropriate to the bleating nonsense that was the “argument”.

    Oh, and Stacey, just to help you out early: odds are you’ve been actively lied to, misled and otherwise given terribly out of context interpretations of the Bible. Most of how you will “think” to act in a Biblical manner has been twisted from its context to suit the desires of certain factions. Some of it is still accurate, quite a lot of it isn’t. This is what happens when you infuse Marxist thinking into Biblical interpretation and “work around” specific passages because they require something of a part of your congregation.

    This is why we’re here. The Truth will set you Free. But it’s damn painful.

  126. Sarah's Daughter

    I am not a masochist and I have never seen any need to tolerate needless suffering caused by wifely verbal abuse and rudeness.

    Most men aren’t masochists either, they just don’t realize how easily this type of disrespect can be dealt with – (even without the courts and lawyers!!!) You put a halt to a shit test – whatever it might have been.

    This does not make Mrs. O’Dea a lesser woman, or an undeserving woman, or a “women aren’t worth it” woman…

    Only a woman blessed with a man willing to do what is needed to bring her to Truth.

    Read it…guys…again and again. “When she came home, she actually apologised for her remark”

    Simple decisions. Not easy…mostly against the grain…never the less, they are simple decisions and a fortitude that GETS RESULTS!

  127. an observer

    Another mostly intj here. Driven by a need to understand and a need for truth.

    Glass is correct: truth is painful. Not that i like mental anguish, but have a drive to discern truth from error.

    everything written here is the opposite of what I believe, 

    I don’t WANT to believe any of it, but the logic and evidence speaks for itself. Like cslewis conversion experience, i came here reluctant, hesitant and deeply disappointed by what i found. Yes, i was angry, yes, i have been lied to forty years, by my parents, teachers, authorities, pastors, the church and men and women them off all stripes.

    The feminist imperative seeks to twist and distort the truth, but the truth seeks to set us free. It is the world and the enemy that tells you the truth should FEEEL right.

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  129. David Collard

    SD: “Simple decisions. Not easy…mostly against the grain…never the less, they are simple decisions and a fortitude that GETS RESULTS!”

    Yes. Absolutely. It is hard and it is counter-intuitive. But there are ways to cope and get results. Being a successful husband is really hard work.

    Stacey, I wasn’t upset that you called me a jackass. I find that kind of thing mildly amusing. You may have a point. I am quite a bit less sentimental about women than most men, and it probably shows.

  130. JG

    LOL at the suggestion that Julian should have just dealt with his wife with compassion after her rudeness. Why not just make the suggestion that he should just kiss her behind every time she’s rude?

    Amazing…

  131. Julian O'Dea

    There is an earlier comment from me stuck in moderation because I accidentally sent it as David Collard, my old penname.

    Basically what I was saying was that there are things a man can do to get his wife in line, if he wants to. They do work, but many men don’t dare try them because they have been told that such things are outdated and ineffective. In fact, nothing else works, in my experience.

    If any man wants to ask for more details, I will answer questions, but I am tired of repeating myself on this issue.

  132. freebird

    Dishwashers leave residue that can accumulate in such a manner that it becomes impossible to remove.
    A white film in the bottom of glasses.

    Perhaps if one could find identical steak knives to replace the damaged ones as a gift,that may have some bearing upon the situation,as long as the cost is not much nor visible in the budget.
    Got another BBQ grill yesterday,nice casing and good gas regulation by the front adjustment knobs.
    Took both grills done to parts,the burner assembly from the larger grill fit fine in the smaller grill giving me radiant area in a smaller case,the grill works Better than a new grill.

    Had to wire wheel down the grating,re-plumb all the gas systems,but those parts are now better than new,as the paint is mostly cooked clean.

    3 safety systems in the gas line,not just one.

    I had gotten the volcano rock for free from a third grill earlier in the year, I keep all the grates for back-ups as I cannibalize each grill.

    Never had a dishwasher.

  133. Farm Boy

    A lot of the sphere is INTJ

    Agreed, but not our hostess. Though she does have the introvert part correct.

    [ssm: "Correct"? Yer a snob, Farm Boy. :) ]

  134. Miserman

    Bob33, after reading some of your comments, I would say you are operating from a feminist perspective, which is antagonistic to Christianity. Essentially, you operate with the assumption that the intention of husbands (and men in general) is always motivated by greed and self-interest, a fundamental point in feminist thinking. From that starting point, wives must always look out only for themselves and their children as their husbands (and men in general) are completely indifferent to their good and well-being.

    In evangelical feminism, men are perpetually the sons of the devil.and women and children are perpetually the sons of the Father.

  135. empathologism

    On my lomg list of not yets is a woman who sincerely apologises

    I would say exceedingly rare, and even then only in the moment is it sincere.
    What mean is, hypothetical example lets say a woman is cold busted in an affair. Out of the blue. And they want to work through it. Her apology can be sincere, sort of, but the hamster has been and continues to frame the reasons why it “just happened” and over time those things slip out, later, over years. You’d then wonder about the apology.

    The best one can hope for consistently in the apology that is designed to “take her share” of the issue, like I say sorry, you say sorry, no harm no foul. Unequivocal….not so much.

    It makes me wonder about the state of repentance. I say this because I realized once long ago that when we’d have some issue come up, minor things, I am very much aware that i am doing wrong, Im aware when i do it, and after, and choose to do it. i do not sense that my wife is TRULY aware of herself in and of herself much of the time, rather its always context and cause and effect rationale. I plowed no new ground with these non-revelations.

  136. Ton

    Nailed it Emp, I have gotten a large share of “sorry but” with every word after “but” rationalizing away her misbehavior or explaining how I am wrong for______ (fill in the blank)

    Women are children who need managed and should have little to no legal standing

  137. sunshinemary

    Stacey

    I wish there was a way for people of opposing views like us to have a healthy dialogue, but I know there’s not. Both sides are too stubborn to listen to the other, and honestly, a desire to hold strongly to your convictions is something I admire.

    I would like you to notice something. Many of us here will often disagree with one another on some point. We debate these things back and forth, which is why the comment threads are so long. Notice one thing that almost never happens here; you will rarely see us calling each other names. For the most part, we dialogue back and forth. No one broke out the swearing and refusal to listen until you showed up. Notice how politely my commenters responded to you, even after you called one of them a jackass. They disagreed with you without resorting to name-calling. They did not allow their emotions to rule them.

    Your initial behavior here in your first comment is typical among feminists. I know this because my site gets linked to feminist sites all the time, and the crux of their argument against me is essentially some variant of this:

    Oh my god, holy hell, that fucking bitch has no right to say that shit. I want to fucking leave this planet. Someone should report her ass to wordpress, that’s fucking hate speech.

    The entire argument is to call me names and to say that I have no right say these things. It is your side which prevents any sort of dialogue at all, healthy or otherwise.

    I am not saying this to shame you, truly. I appreciate your taking the time to weigh in. But your assertion that both sides are too stubborn to listen and both sides cannot have a healthy dialogue is incorrect. It is your side that always wishes to shut the dialogue down, and when it cannot, comes in screeching swear words and rude names, or yelling about hate speech.

  138. Farm Boy

    Wasn’t Harry Truman who said, “If you want a dishwasher in Washington, get a dog”?

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  140. Zippy

    You see, HHG has asked me not to put sharp knives in the dishwasher because it dulls the blades and warps the handles over time, but sometimes I sneak them in anyway when I’m feeling too lazy to wash them by hand.

    Hah, that’s pretty funny. In my little kingdom, my rule is “everything is dishwasher safe by definition”.

    If the dishwasher destroys it, that is as long as it was supposed to last. The females have at times railed against this rule; but they no longer buy foo-foo crap that can’t be thrown into the dishwasher.

    [ssm: Yes, Zippy, I too believe in natural selection for kitchenware. If the dishwasher ruins the non-dishwasher safe utensils, soon only dishwasher-safe utensils will exist. Problem solved!]

  141. Lina

    I hope this blog and it’s maker are a satirical creation, otherwise it is seriously disheartening to find that there are still such brainwashed and uneducated human specimens in the world in the year 2013.

    [ssm: I am this blog's maker. But how can I know if I am a satirical creation? Another question to write on my list of Things to Ask God When I Die.]

  142. TheShadowedKnight

    Lina, this is not a satirical blog, and people like this do exist. After the wreck that Feminism has made of any culture that follows its dictates, what could you expect? A need exists for a more coherent cultural paradigm, and this section of the internet is building ours. Your ideas have no merit unless viewed from a viewpoint ungrounded in reality.

    What shows less education, assuming that all of human history was an aberration or that something can be learned from the civilizations of old and the use of the scientific method and rational observation? Before you come back with a hasty and emotional retort, take some time to calm down and use reason instead.

    If that proves too difficult, then you have nothing to offer us, and your words will not convince us. We are the children of the dying world, and we are becoming the fathers and mothers of what is to come. We have seen what you have to offer, and we reject it and cast our defiance into your face. We want no part of the evil you serve. We seek meaning in our lives, not part the unceasing nihilistic conflict you are fighting. A fight against the phantom opponents of your warped perceptions. No thank you.

    The Shadowed Knight

  143. Deep Strength

    Lina,

    I hope this blog and it’s maker are a satirical creation, otherwise it is seriously disheartening to find that there are still such brainwashed and uneducated human specimens in the world in the year 2013.

    As stated before, we are all willing to change our minds if you can point out Biblically where we are incorrect.

    However, if all you have are insults and shaming language, you have already shown your argument and position to be worthless.

  144. Amanda Lynn Larson

    I am far more liberal leaning than you, I’ll admit that up front. That said, I support one piece of this wildly: the husband’s right to walk away when someone (including his wife) is being abusive. He’s not a punching bag, he shouldn’t be mistreated as a -human being- of value and worth in the eyes of the God, whom God loves. When you add in that he is her husband and worthy of respect, it just builds on that all the more.

    Where you and I might disagree is that I think I have the same right, and I would walk away in the store or even leave if needed, if I was being treated rudely and other methods (please stop, we can talk later, etc) hadn’t worked. I loved the suggestion though, and agree that I’ve seen too many spouses talk disrespectfully to each other. No one should be expected to stand there and play punching bag. The more it’s tolerated, the more you will see it.

  145. Looking Glass

    @Julian:

    The best error in one of those rants is still “inintelligent”. I laughed on that one for a few days.

    And I do love the “educated” who complain about their inability to deal with cause & effect. Though the best is that nearly all Leftist arguments die if they ever provide a definition. Either you can run through the definition with a bulldozer or the definition makes them exactly what they claim they aren’t.

  146. Ton

    I’m not sure why I am supposed to be impressed with “educate” people, given what passes for education these days.

  147. Amanda Lynn Larson

    Lina: From a feminist perspective, it’s important to respect other woman’s choices as such. As far as we know, these are consenting, happily married adults. You’re not required to like her views, but she’s certainly entitled to her choices.

    I admit I find this blog a bit scary. However, you seem happy with your life and your walk with God, and I wish you well.

  148. Julian O'Dea

    Yes, SSM. I can say more, but briefly my wife has worked, mostly part-time, throughout our marriage. I was full-time until I retired recently, on a good pension from my job. My wife has now gone back to full-time work as a librarian. My wife’s primary role was wife and mother, and mine breadwinner, throughout most of our marriage. But I was always happy for my wife to work, provided the rest of the family did not miss out. She likes her profession on the whole, and I valued the extra security of a second income.

  149. Amanda Lynn Larson

    Anski: There are careers that need women specifically- SART (sexual assault response teams), domestic violence shelters/centers, and others. There and others are great places for ministry and outreach. I don’t suggest putting ministry before the family, just that if you don’t leave the house, you won’t get to ministry to a great number of people that desperately need God. Men can’t and shouldn’t be the ones ministering in many of these situations, which leaves Christian women to step up. Single women can and do many wonderful things, but married women (perhaps after kids are older) contribute as well.

    Rather than a blanket approach, it’s probably better for couples to decide for themselves. God can does call certain couples to be missionaries, for example.

  150. choking on red pills

    “Only a woman blessed with a man willing to do what is needed to bring her to Truth.” – Sarah’s Daughter

    This is the quote of the day for me.

    “Submission” and “submitting” are such cruel words on both sides of the gender divide. Sigh.

    But I’ve learnt a lot about how I should react when I am being disrespected and not sin or doing it out of “tit-for-tat”.

  151. Amanda Lynn Larson

    empathologism: I found some quotes for you. Women are children who need managed and should have little to no legal standing.

    Woman are no more capable of gratitude then they are of respect. They will fake these things if they fear losing you enough, but don’t posses them in a genuine fashion

    Amanda, men and women are born with little to no moral agency. Acting in a manner contrary to their immediate self interest in order to not harm another is not part of their perspective. They need to be taught that, by their parents, primarily the father. The difference between the sexes is that absent a systemic enforcement of those moral standards, women backslide much faster than men. Their own self interest comes to the fore and they act in accordance to that. The attitude of “training” a woman is therefore necessary in this society in order to enforce any sort of moral standard.
    and
    Part of that revolution will involve putting women back in their place, and making men aware of their true nature. Is the decline over the past few decades not proof of the female propensity for short term self interest over all other considerations?

    Please explain, as a man, how I misread that as not implying that women are less moral, more selfish, and not need of more guidance, much like, oh, children. Possibly due that directly being stated verbatim.

    I’m not actually trying to get you or anyone else to say men’s sins are worse. What I’m fighting is the crap that I just copied and pasted. -That- is what I’m objecting to. Not that you shouldn’t be disgusted by immorality. Not that you can’t be hurt/angry/whatever else if a woman has wronged or sin. That is normal. It just crosses a line when it becomes disgust with a sin or a particular person to generalizations about an entire -sex- or blatant misogyny. Equal guilt? Great, I can handle it. I’ve seen it, dealt it, probably on a larger scale than you as I work in social services and with women.

    No problem with your example, especially as I see myself in it. (I have a tiny gift giving problem and if I do get married, have no problem admitting that future possible husband should very likely be in charge of finances. >_o ) It spooks me in some already icky posts, but I get the concept of a) boundaries/no or b ) reward (i.e. I want someone to pick up their stuff, and asking nicely works much better than nagging).

    The idea stands on merit, not because it is or is not present in men, or another group.

    I would be fine with this, if we were not talking about ‘most or nearly all women do this thing’ as quoted above. If Poster Bob said ‘Our culture currently encourages women to sin in this way and many do’ – I would not be having the same reaction, because it a statement of women’s innate sinfulness, value or random sexism. Can you see the difference? Even saying someone or some people may be more susceptible to certain kinds of sin is -not the same thing- is saying they -are- more blah blah.

    But yes, I did read your post, and yes, I will attempt to be sure I am not comparing apples and oranges overall. Also, that I am using logic that I can back up if asked.

  152. Ton

    As a man I say women are not capable of these things because I do not see them.show gratitude or respect. I will not change my position in this until I see women out side of SSM blog who do show those traits

    It real damn simple. If women behave better, they will get kinder regards

    I know as a woman you cannot see the lack of these things but I would bet my house we could sit in Starbucks for a few hours and I could show you example after example.

    Or could if I thought you were.actually arguing out of good faith

  153. MInTheGap

    It seems to me like there is a legitimate gripe that the comments tend to exaggerate and extrapolate to the whole the problem with a significant subset of that whole. This is part of the problem with solipsism, that because one person’s experience must be the same as every other.

    I’ve argued over at Elizabeth Esther (a Christian Liberal who is famous for escaping a Fundamentalist church) and other places that often times many who are hurt or are seen to be escaping something tend to lump the entire group as to the parts that hurt them. EE tends to say “all Baptists” or “all Quiverfull” or “all Fundamentalists” and reads everything that someone from that perspective says through a lens of what she believes they are “actually saying.”

    I have found that the comments here are very close to the same thing, where men that have been hurt by disloyal and sinful women, and those that have had their ideas reinforced by friendly surroundings of this ‘sphere have started to paint all women, all churches, etc. with the same brush because of their perspective and hurt. There is a danger that they make make themselves perpetual victims always looking for something that they can interpret as weak, as supplication, as unsubmissive.

    All that being said, I have found some of the same things that have been said on this blog and in other places said in churches, said in other places, and I too have felt that the weight of the teaching is biased toward one side. Though I believe that some of this is warranted– the weight of being the one in authority, the one with responsibility, and the one called to be the servant leader is huge!– I believe that much more time is devoted to the husbands side of things because some people believe that just telling wives that they must submit is enough, and they are not willing to go any further into what that means.

    To me, the worth in this discussion does not come from arguing who has the bigger “cross to bear” or whose side has been covered enough, or the like, it comes from giving practical instruction about what a godly husband’s leadership looks like. It comes from showing what respect is and what a godly wife’s submission looks like.

    Our society no longer knows, and we can spend our time fighting about whether or not we should have the discussion, posturing about who’s more dominant, or whether one husband thinks that a balanced approach is necessary or whether said balanced approach is supplication, or we can do the work that we’re all avoiding– except SSM, who started the whole discussion with something fruitful, by illustrating exactly what a husband’s authority means and what the wife should do in response.

    That instruction is worth far more than most of the discussion in this comment box.

    Oh, and if I could put in a request– a few days ago, SSM, you linked to a post you wrote on your old blog in regards to how a woman that had multiple sexual partners could increase her attractedness in her husband. Very good post, but I was wondering if it wouldn’t be fruitful to do this for those that married virgins, as a follow up, because even they can find that they don’t have the same effect later on, and that post could easily be repurposed for that as well.

  154. sunshinemary

    Min

    Oh, and if I could put in a request– a few days ago, SSM, you linked to a post you wrote on your old blog in regards to how a woman that had multiple sexual partners could increase her attractedness in her husband. Very good post, but I was wondering if it wouldn’t be fruitful to do this for those that married virgins, as a follow up, because even they can find that they don’t have the same effect later on, and that post could easily be repurposed for that as well.

    Sure, I could probably do that. Could you email me about this…tell me a little more about your thoughts on the matter?

    I have found that the comments here are very close to the same thing, where men that have been hurt by disloyal and sinful women, and those that have had their ideas reinforced by friendly surroundings of this ‘sphere have started to paint all women, all churches, etc. with the same brush because of their perspective and hurt. There is a danger that they make make themselves perpetual victims always looking for something that they can interpret as weak, as supplication, as unsubmissive.

    Yep. You are correct, in my estimation. The other problem is that if any woman here tries to point this out, even by citing something mundane like the fact men file for 1/3 of all divorces, she is immediately branded a feminist bitch and run out of town, so to speak.

    However, men have so few places where they can honestly speak about their side of the equation and how they have been affected and hurt by the current SMP/MMP that I tend to just let it go here.

  155. Amanda Lynn Larson

    Ton: Thing is? That works both ways. I could go pull up about 20 rape threats made by guys made at a woman (her crime was saying they shouldn’t make rape jokes in comedy). I -get- some women are awful. I do. Some women have, frankly, been awful to me. I was bullied as a child and a teen.

    I’m not saying you should trust and love or women, or that you don’t have a right to be angry. You may have a lot of great reasons to be angry. There may have been a lot of women that have treated you horribly. The thing is, where does it stop? I was molested as a kid. My biological dad cheated on my mom and left. I now work with women that have been hurt by men.

    It’d be very, very easy to go ‘all men are monsters’, and be distrustful. I also know I can’t. It’s not fair or right. You’ve done nothing to me. I can’t blame you for what others did. I can’t take what some men did -and put it on all men-. I also refuse to let you do that to me. I’m not saying this out of hate, or to hurt you. I’m just not going to be abused, because someone was awful to you.

    I am sorry. It just wasn’t my fault.

  156. Ton

    Molested as a kid….. I call bullshit as that’s a common trump card

    My opinion regarding the vast majority of women will change when they have earned better. It’s a simple concept

  157. Amanda Lynn Larson

    *snort* It’s common because it happens to a lot of us, not to mention to boys as well. The nice part is I’m long over it, and don’t require your sensitivity.

    The thing is? I don’t have to earn it and I need to. I made an effort to be nice. It was wasted. This is where I tell you to have a nice life and go on with my day.

  158. Pingback: On Submission (Why fathers Are Foundational) | Traditional Christianity

  159. Doc

    ” If I were really trying to manipulate HHG, I wouldn’t write it here. :)

    Every woman knows how to manipulate the man she’s with… The best one can do it so that he doesn’t even suspect he is being manipulated… Of course, that usually works out best for both since they each end up with something they want. That is something that all of the Feminists lose sight of – they seem to think that every interaction must have a winner and a loser – which is why they fail. The wise woman knows that both can win since men and women want different things which tend to be complementary…

  160. Hannah

    Amanda, I missed your comment here – I’m sorry to hear you were molested as a child.
    You’ve said you are a virgin right? I applaud you for this in light of this information.
    Question – how did you process the shame without acting out shamefully?
    I really am so impressed.
    For clarity I will copy a comment I wrote on a previous post that will show you my sinful response to sexual abuse as a 12 year old.
    In short, because I was no longer sexually pure (regardless of innocence), I knew that I was no longer marriageable in the truest sense. Read the story of Dinah or Tamar as examples of taking a raped girl out of society.
    This made me feel so sick, I proceeded to shift the blame onto myself to make some sense of my situation.
    How have you done this without sinning?
    Blessings to you in Yeshua.

    My earlier comment FYI:

    Several years ago I did a course at our old church. The course was for women who’d been sexually abused. Some of what was processed through the course was of value – but I was apparently the only woman they’d ever come across who refused to participate in the final session.
    The session was about healing for a wounded sexuality through the “Spirit of Virginity” teaching.

    Things happened to me by a family friend when I was 12 that destroyed my innocence and modesty. I then chose indiscriminate promiscuity (sounds like tautology I know!) for the next decade to blur the memory, and to justify the shame I already felt but was told I shouldn’t own.

    Twice in the year I left home, I woke to an intruder on top of me. One time I stopped the attack, one time I didn’t.
    From the night that I was raped, I never wanted to sleep, and the more places you go in the dark hours, the more bad decisions you make.
    That’s when I started smoking all day every day. I was angry at the world,
    I hated everyone who seemed to be happy, even more, I despised people complaining about minor glitches in their otherwise great life.
    I even felt superior in a really miserable way.
    I smoked hundreds of dollars worth of hydro-marijuana every week. I told people I worked in a cafe, but to sustain a heavy addiction – you’re involved in drug dealing, or mixed up in the sex industry.
    There aren’t a lot of female drug dealers.
    My world got smaller, darker, and more secret.
    I refused to own a phone, feeling utter contempt for consumerism.
    I was completely anti-social unless somebody smoked cones or at least a joint with me.
    The doctor told me I had a borderline personality disorder… Like that meant anything besides another puppet on Prozac.

    I met my future husband at this hellish point of my life – I had journeyed my way to the underworld, and he was born there.

    13 years later – the Sigma and the slut are happily married with four children so far. We became Christians 10 years ago and repented. Both of us radically turned our lives around, and we are no longer the broken sinners we were. But that does not erase my past. It is ugly and shameful. It is only through the grace of God that it no longer defines who I am today.

    Spirit of VIRGINITY??? Come on! (anyone an Arrested Development fan?!) You’re either a virgin or you’re not. No prayer nor magic wand can change it back.
    Life is not fair – sure, but we can’t just change the truth to fit our reality now can we…

    So with that in mind, I would say that for me and my husband, we prioritise protecting our children’s modesty. Sexuality isn’t something that magically emerges at a certain age – it is there from birth but virginity should be guarded with your life.
    There is a book called ‘Doesn’t Anyone Blush Anymore?’ by Manis Friedman. The rabbi is defending traditional Jewish rules of sexual modesty. Bob Dylan recommendeds the book to anybody married or considering marriage – I would too
    My husband and I will train our children to want to marry early. We hope our boys won’t marry single mothers or abused women. I am very grateful that my husband chose to commit to me despite the risk of pairing off with what I can only describe as damaged goods.
    Life is not fair, but I wouldn’t recommend someone like me to anyone. I am no snowflake!

    It is somewhat easier to rationalise or justify our actions to appease our guilty consciences, but I’d much rather the ugly truth than a beautiful lie. The process is painfully humbling.
    But if you can be brutally honest with yourself, perhaps you can warn others not to go where you have been.

    I for one applaud and speak up for Purity, Modesty and Submission in and out of season.
    I am not afraid to call out someone for justifying their sinful actions. I do not fear the finger being pointed back at me – I already acknowledge that!

    This makes me wildly popular among women

    I hope this story actually ties in with the OP – apologies if not!

    Btw… My husband made me delete our Facebook accounts several years ago and I am so grateful for his decision. Too much gossip, compromise of morals, and not enough burning of bridges going on there. A foolish woman’s delight no doubt.

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  162. ZLX1

    When I am out with my sons we often see women at the grocery dressing their husbands down in barely hushed tones. The men always look like they are in a state of confusion or shock. Not that they haven’t probably gone through this time and again, but that I suspect each time it occurs it is just as humiliating and emasculating. The “wife” having made her point usually huffs away from the check out line, head haughtily held high, assured in her mind that she has put her “man” in his place. The man for his part looks around a bit sheepishly., sighs and follows after her pushing the cart in an attempt to catch up with her and “make it alright.” Occasionally I will catch his eye and he might offer a slight shake of his head, a shrugged shoulder and a moronic half grin as if to say “Women don’t’cha know?” Indeed I do.

    Whenever I encounter a scene like this, which seems to be each time we go anywhere in public that white middle class men and women congregate, I always ask my sons a very simple question: “How would you like to be married to a woman like that?” I don’t need to explain or elaborate further. They can see it with their own eyes. Their answer is always the same: “No thanks.” Good boys.

    ZLX1

  163. Black Eyed Peat

    Hannah, “My husband and I will train our children to want to marry early. ”

    Then you should arrange their marriages. And no, I’m not being facetious but absolutely serious. I have read comment after comment about 30 something Christians lamenting their single state when they had hoped, planned and expected to be married with family by 25. Their well meaning parents might have told them to “start looking for a spouse” early but those same parents did nothing to arrange a marriage.

    I know several immigrant families who arrange the marriages of their working professional adult children and they have a low divorce rate, if any divorce rate at all. Christian parents need to start doing this. Why leave it up to chance?

  164. Julian O'Dea

    ZLX1:

    “When I am out with my sons we often see women at the grocery dressing their husbands down in barely hushed tones.”

    Simple solution. Works every time. DO NOT go grocery shopping with your wife. It is not your job to trot along beside her like a manservant.

  165. FuzzieWuzzie

    Julian,
    If the wife displays such an attitude in public, what can things be like at home?
    Washington Irving’s ” Rip vanWinkle” was one solution for hen pecked husbands. I don’t think that there is a universal application there, however.
    It is kind of painful to witness this stuff.

  166. Julian O'Dea

    FuzzieWuzzie, possibly she would be better at home. There is some devil that enters women in public situations. I am not sure why they are disrespectful in public, and in front of friends or strangers. Sometimes I think they are just blowing off steam in a place or situation where you cannot put them in their place. Sometimes I think it is that they really don’t want to be there, or don’t want you to be there, and so they mouth off.

    Solutions are available. One I have already mentioned is to not be there in the first place. A wife really doesn’t want you there when she is grocery shopping. It is her job. She knows what she is doing, assuming she is a good household manager. You are not a toddler. Do not be there.

    Another solution is to smartmouth her back. If you are good with words, like me, this can work. But a lot of men are not so verbal. And some retain vestiges of the old gentlemanly code. Not me. A wife is a woman, not a lady.

    Another solution is to simply go home without her or leave the place and go back to the car. Or whatever. Leave her to explain why you have suddenly absented yourself. I have done this a few times.

    If your wife talks over you in a social situation, you can simply tell her to be quiet. I have done this in front of social workers and teachers. It is a dangerous ploy, but if she fundamentally knows her place, she will shut up. My wife has. This cannot be faked though. You have to genuinely mean her to shut up.

  167. Amanda Lynn Larson

    Hannah: I’m so sorry. For what happened to you, and what you’ve been through.You were a baby, and you didn’t deserve to be hurt. I truly am. I’m glad God brought you back, and that you have this new, beautiful life. The life you were meant to have. It may sound cheesy, but I don’t -care-. It’s a horrible thing to go through that darkness, and I’ve seen too many people not make it. I’m so glad you did.

    Yes, I’m a virgin. How I made it? First off? I was lucky. It wasn’t family or a friend, it was a 13 ish yr old boy at church when I was in 3rd grade and still a baby who only had the vaguest idea about sex. My mother believed me without question, got me into therapy, and there was no painful trial thanks to him confessing. In many ways, pain it caused my family was more hurtful than what happened. My mother (not yet remarried) and my older brother, both blamed themselves for not protecting me. My shame was more around aftermath- sexual abuse sexualizes kiddos and you don’t understand where it’s coming from.

    The other part is my mental illness was oddly protective in may ways. I didn’t go out enough into trouble. I was scared of drugs, I was terrified of sex, men, human contact, breathing… so I didn’t fall into a lot of things and wasn’t in school enough to even make the contacts for trouble. Go hermithood!

    One of the other things sounds so stupid, but it was one of the factors. I was rereading Seventeen or one of those magazines and this girl had written in. She and this boy were going to have sex. She lifted up her shirt. He saw her chest and ran out of the room. I promised myself then and there, that I would never be in that situation with some boy I barely knew for a thrill. This was helpfully backed up by my Christian parents, who very much expected me to stay a virgin.

    I then chose indiscriminate promiscuity (sounds like tautology I know!) for the next decade to blur the memory, and to justify the shame I already felt but was told I shouldn’t own.

    Sounds familiar, actually. So, so many of the woman I’ve worked with took out the abuse they suffered on themselves. That’s what happened to them, so that’s what they are, that’s what they were worth.

    13 years later – the Sigma and the slut are happily married with four children so far. We became Christians 10 years ago and repented. Both of us radically turned our lives around, and we are no longer the broken sinners we were.

    This is the amazing part. I don’t get to hear enough stories like this where people make it out. :)

    You’re either a virgin or you’re not. No prayer nor magic wand can change it back.

    I’d still argue this shouldn’t be held against rape victims. I’d marry one.

    Re: sexual modesty/protecting virginity/standards:

    There was too much to copy and paste, but I’m certainly on board with bringing kids up well, protecting innocence, keeping it sacred, and all of that. I have a huge heart for damaged goods and I’m not sure I equate virginity with being ‘new’ goods, but the rest of it? Yes. It’s much easier on everyone if the start is what it -should- be, rather than trying to fix what’s been hurt. No question! God definitely intended that, rather than people being hurt or abused in the first place. :)

    I for one applaud and speak up for Purity, Modesty and Submission in and out of season.

    *applauds*

    I like facebook, but I mostly post funny animal pictures or play plant vs. zombies. Gossip is not my besetting sin as much as a rebellious streak, impulsive present buying, etc. Tumblr is probably more of a danger, as it feeds my massive crush on Tom Hiddleston. ;)

  168. Hannah

    Hey Amanda,

    Thanks for your kind words :) And I’m glad to see you’re still here!

    “My shame was more around aftermath- sexual abuse sexualizes kiddos and you don’t understand where it’s coming from.”

    Likewise. My modesty was robbed, and I no longer had it’s protection.
    That’s why I’m being completely honest when I say I admire you for not having sex after your innocence was taken. I made a complete hash of my life for a decade and have too many regrets to remember. Well done you for staying on the path of purity.

    “The other part is my mental illness was oddly protective in may ways. I didn’t go out enough into trouble. I was scared of drugs, I was terrified of sex, men, human contact, breathing… so I didn’t fall into a lot of things and wasn’t in school enough to even make the contacts for trouble. Go hermithood!”

    Do you mind telling me what your mental illness is?
    I’m so glad you’ve not gotten into trouble. I am sad to hear you were terrified of sex, men etc.
    Are you still?

    How old are you Amanda?

    I have advice (surprise surprise!) – remember Deti’s sage wisdom regarding marriage and what a woman has to offer.
    On the top of my head:

    Virginity, Youth, Attractiveness, Sexual Availability, Sweetness.

    Ok, I might have morphed that into my own thinking… apologies Deti! The point is, re-read his truths and then act on them.
    This will translate into – God willing, meeting a good enough guy and marrying him – the sooner the better!

    The Shadowed Knight gave you good advice too about wearing dresses – did he recently tell you he’s in his 20′s? That blew me away if I’m remembering right…. he has wisdom beyond his years! I actually always read his comments imagining that sensei in Batman Begins :)

    Blessings Amanda, great to see you’re still with us :)

  169. donalgraeme

    “Virginity, Youth, Attractiveness, Sexual Availability, Sweetness.”

    Sounds about right. The problem is how to advertise those those things without creating mixed messages. Worth a post in the future, I suppose.

  170. Amanda Lynn Larson

    Hannah: Here? Sort of. I’m following this thread for you, at least, and had something relevant re: birth control.

    That’s why I’m being completely honest when I say I admire you for not having sex after your innocence was taken.

    Thank you, God had a lot to do with it, though I definitely made a decision along the way. I just encourage you to give yourself some grace- 12 is a rough time to get a knock out blow for any girl and you were just a girl then.

    Do you mind telling me what your mental illness is?

    I wouldn’t talk about that time of my life or those topics on this lovely, supportive blog, especially when my login is attached to my facebook account. If you want to e-mail or talk under one of my wordpress accounts, I don’t mind talking about it. It’s just if someone chimed in with stupid comments, I’d have to kill them and it’d go downhill from there. ;)

    Are you still?

    No. I’ve calmed down considerably since my teens, and am now 32.

    I’m pretty sure shy, and get worked out over meeting strangers, large crowds, and parties. That goes away as I get to know someone or used to the environment though.

    Virginity, Youth, Attractiveness, Sexual Availability, Sweetness.

    Hee. I am taking notes. I’m interested in getting married, if I find the right man. Basically: if it happens, awesome, if not? I plan to be productive and do useful things to help kiddos.

  171. theshadowedknight

    Hannah, yes, I am in my 20′s; 23 to be exact. My parents always said I had an old soul. Glad to hear that I am not crazy, and the things I see are really there.

    The Shadowed Knight

  172. Hannah

    Are we talking Lego Amanda?! If so, Cole’s my favourite Ninja, although Sensei Wu is pretty cool too :)

  173. Amanda Lynn Larson

    No, I don’t actually know the Ninjago by name, I’m ashamed to say. I was just figured it was better I not comment and let you and TSK enjoy each being on each other’s wave length. I was attempting discretion, more or less, especially as you’ve been awfully spiffy.

  174. theshadowedknight

    Amanda, are you asking me to dance? I have to decline. Respectfully, darling, we are a bit too far apart to make it work. Not to mention with me leaving the country… It just would not be fair to you. It is not you, it is me.

    The Shadowed Knight

  175. Pingback: The flower of rebellion. | Sunshine Mary

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