Are all men obligated to protect all women from sexual assault?

Apparently Missoula, Montana is the “Rape Capital” of the country.  Personally, I find that really hard to believe.  Last year, the Justice Department investigated the city and local university because of how sexual assault complaints have been handled.  Since then, the university and the city of Missoula have been trying to turn their image around.

The campaign Make Your Move! To End Sexual Violence aims to educate men in Montana…I guess to teach them not to be rapists?  I’m not really sure exactly what the goal of the campaign is.  Some of the posters aren’t so bad, when you think about it.  Friends should watch out for their friends.  But something seems off to me.  Have a look through some of the posters and tell me what you think, dear reader:

In a compassionate society, we would all be looking out for one another, right?  In a sane world, if we saw someone who was really drunk, we’d call them a cab.  I think what worries me about this campaign is the sense that this isn’t a kindness that a man might do for a woman, but rather an obligation that all men owe all women.

Do all men owe all women the obligation of protecting them?

Maybe in days gone by, when most people lived in small communities, men felt that they owed this to all women.  Should they still feel that way now?  The Christian in me says that we are to help others in need.  Does that mean others have the legal right to demand our help?

And do women have any responsibility whatsoever for their own safety?  Where is the alcohol education campaign?  If the goal were truly to keep women safe and not just to advance a feministic political agenda, wouldn’t they want to do everything they could to teach women how to keep themselves safe?  The obvious common denominator in many of these cases is excessive alcohol consumption; why not point that out to women?

In fact, if feminists really care about women, how about encouraging them not to sleep with men to whom they are not married?  And really, if men are truly as dangerous as feminists paint them to be, oughtn’t feminists encourage young women to stay completely away from men?

I went to the Facebook page of this campaign, and it’s pure feminism through and through.  Here are some images:

Is it illegal to make a sexist comment?  Who decides what is sexist?  If someone makes a sexist comment, are they guilty of contributing to rape culture?  Can they be prosecuted for this?

What does it mean to support those who report?  Does it mean taking her word against his?  Does it mean that the woman is always right, that her interpretation of events is never to be questioned, never to be considered critically?  What if she’s lying or is reinterpreting consensual sex as rape? And what kind of support are we talking about here?

Women complain that men don’t treat us as if they took us seriously, but ladies, if you want grown ups to take your movement seriously, you have to act like a reasonable adult.  When I see women holding signs encouraging other women to be Vagina Warriors, I feel embarrassed for womankind and I don’t blame men for thinking of us as unruly children.

Sure, I have no problem with people treating each other with respect.  But if a woman willfully disregards her own safety, what obligation does that put on the rest of us to make sure she stays safe?  Are we disrespecting her if we don’t save her from herself?  But isn’t that treating her like a child?  Isn’t she supposed to be free to make her own choices?

Or is it that she is supposed to be free to make her own choices, no matter how bad, and free from all criticism, but also protected from any negative consequences of those bad decisions?  Should men really be encouraged to enable this?

As for calling 911…about what?  That a drunken girl is grinding on a drunken boy and you suspect in the morning she will regret it?  Because that’s what these assault reports are, by and large.  There isn’t an epidemic of strangers dragging kicking, screaming girls into the bushes and brutally raping them; it’s mostly he-said-she-said drunken sex that may or may not have been consensual, depending on whom you ask and when you ask.

We already have this.  It’s not helping the situation at all.

Yes, of course.  Most men despise rapists.  The problem is, Western women often lie when they report sexual assault.  If men automatically believe the woman over the man just by virtue of her sex, this really gives women an awful lot of power in an area where they have already proven themselves untrustworthy.

The following group of pictures appear to have been taken on campus at the University of Montana.  Something about these pictures bothers me.  The heavy emphasis on respecting women smacks of the implication that women are always right, women are always moral, women are always to be trusted, and that to say otherwise is to disrespect women

This last photo is from a different site, but really sums up the concerns I have about a campaign like this:

What if a man doesn’t protect the random women around him who are in harm’s way?  Is he obligated to do so in a feminist society, in which women are presumed to be the full equals of men?  If we are equal to men in our ability to make good decisions, in our ability to fight in the military, in our work lives, and in our private lives, why do men need to be trained to protect all women they encounter?

Most men I know are really decent guys.  They don’t want to see women hurt.  They would probably call the police if they saw a woman being harmed.  Some might even intervene.   There are a few really bad guys out there who want to hurt women, but are they really that big of a percentage of the male population?  Is there really, truly an epidemic of young men slipping roofies into women’s drinks?  I seriously have my doubts about that.

I like the idea of men protecting women.  It makes me feel safe.  In a society that was following biblical precepts, we could have that because both sexes would have an equal duty to look out for the well-being of others.  God made men larger and stronger, so they are the natural protectors; women are smaller and weaker and are thus the natural servants, but both sexes are to care for the other.

Christ’s Example of Humility

2 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

No such duty to serve men exists for women in a feminist culture, so why are women demanding that a duty to protect women exists for men?

277 thoughts on “Are all men obligated to protect all women from sexual assault?

  1. Feminist Hater

    Oh and all men should know. If you intend to try help a woman, you better be ready to have her call the cops or bouncers on you for being creepy and sexually assaulting her. It’s just not in your best interest to stick your neck out for drunk skanks. Bouncers will have no problem beating you up to within an inch of your life and the coppers will have no issue putting you behind bars for the weekend. Helping women is not on the cards anymore. Let them be raped, murdered, assaulted and everything else, it’s time they dealt with reality. You have zero, fuck all obligation to help them in anyway at all. None.

  2. Farm Boy

    Be vagina warriors

    If a v is so powerful that it defines a type of warrior, then it should be regulated.

  3. Feminist Hater

    You only have an obligation to stick your neck out for women who constantly and always submit themselves to your leadership.

    That is all.

    We done here?

  4. Farm Boy

    Christ’s Example of Humility

    One of the largest issues with society today is the lack of humility.

  5. Feminist Hater

    Heh, warrior vaginas indeed!

    Kung-Fu Vagina
    Vagina Hustle
    Crouching Tiger, Loose Vagina
    Enter the Vagina
    Vagina of Legend, starring Vagina Li
    The Way of the Vagina

    eh, whateva!

  6. Farm Boy

    Last year, the Justice Department investigated the city and local university for how sexual assault complaints have been handled

    So it is really the rape complaint Capitol.

    [ssm: Exactly so. A complaint is not the same thing as an assault. But when I read exhortations to "support those who report", I wonder if that isn't the goal...to make an accusation proof enough that the assault occurred.]

  7. Johnycomelately

    If I have the authority to vet her man company then I will also help her when she is in trouble, otherwise each to their own.

    I’d love to see the response of an intoxicated woman at a club to a request to skedaddle and go home as it was getting late…hand meet face, slap!

    [ssm: Right! And what are men supposed to do then? How far do you have to go to make sure she doesn't have drunken hook up sex? Heck, on a typical weekend, one could make a full time job out of intervening in such situations. Have the people who designed this campaign never been to a typical college campus party? Most everyone there are drunk as skunks.]

  8. Novaseeker

    It wouldn’t work, in any case. Women who are out to get male attention in bars and clubs and who are drunk aren’t going to exactly welcome the protective older brother routine.

    All of this is just more unrealistic hand waving because the real issue — women dressing like sluts and getting drunk around horny drunk men — is not what they want to address because they don’t want to restrict women’s freedom of action.

  9. Ton

    I protect what is mine free of charge and I am happy to do it. So unless the gal is kin, or belongs to kin, she’s on her own.

    However, my daily rate is $850 plus travel expenses.

  10. Ton

    Ps. I love it when some sparky tries the tough guy act.

    Confront sexist comments…. Fellas, sexist comments get them wet. Just laugh at them and call them a silly girl when they “confront” you

    Vagina warriors? girl troops down range with guns “need” men to keep them safe from rape…. what makes them gashes think they’ll do better?

    Call 911? When seconds count, cops are mintues away

    As for the rest, nothing a good pimp and a “back to the kitchen bitch” won’t solve

  11. sunshinemary Post author

    My advice to women is to stop getting drunk. Have one or maybe two drinks over the course of the night, then stick to diet coke. And stop sleeping around.

    My advice to men is to stay away from places where there are a lot of drunk women, and to stay away from drunk women wherever you encounter them. In the current climate, I wouldn’t probably advise helping them; if you think she’s in trouble, call the cops.

    A few more images from the facebook page:

    Stupid, useless platitudes that do nothing to address the problem. How much funding did this campaign receive from the city and state governments and the university, I wonder?

  12. Novaseeker

    My advice to women is to stop getting drunk. Have one or maybe two drinks over the course of the night, then stick to diet coke. And stop sleeping around.

    They don’t want that — they want the freedom to act as men act. Of course, if a man gets drunk in a gay bar, he’s probably risking getting raped, too (that’s the proper analogy), but women don’t want to hear that.

  13. sunshinemary Post author

    So how are young Missoulan men, or men in general, supposed to interact with women?

    Women want attention…but don’t be a creeper bro! How does the average man navigate that?

  14. Anon

    As I mentioned in your previous post–due process concepts including 1. the right to face your accuser and 2. the presumption of innocence are now gone on college campuses and the military. It’s only a matter of time until the “sexual assault exception” to these bedrock jurisprudence precedures applies everywhere else. Every day I realize more and more that there is no more “western culture.”

  15. earl

    My best move to continue sexual violence.

    Fight my own internal demons…for that is where sexual violence begins, in the mind.

    See, I don’t even need women anymore for sex.

  16. earl

    If you are a man who wants to end sexual violence…

    Then you have a lot of internal demons I can exploit. And if I know this…a woman surely knows this too.

  17. Leap of a Beta

    “4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, ”

    Curious, could this not be said that it is extending acting in the interests of others when those others are fellow Christians? Or do we think that it is, indeed, calling Christians to make sacrifices for strangers even when it is not in men’s observable best interest?

  18. Ton

    That never blame the victim chick looks like she’s seen a mile of cock the morning she took that photo

  19. dorsey47

    Referring to the link I left above: If you don’t have the stomach for the entire sermon, and just want to hear the obligation she lays on men, it can be heard here:

  20. ar10308

    The main problem is that these university faggots are invading one of the last places in the USA where things are fairly traditional. Men who are native to Montana are pretty naturally masculine while the women are pretty naturally feminine. That is why these “rape” numbers are so high. The guys are naturally aggressive and the girls are naturally submissive. They haven’t been soaked in the Feminist crap as long as the rest of this country has been and now the Femininazis have decided they want to assault them too.

    [ssm: It's probably a clash of cultures, because Missoula has been pretty left-wing-ish for quite a while. Right after I graduated from U of M, I drove with a friend of mine to Missoula to help her get settled in graduate school there. Missoula was pretty much the same place as Ann Arbor, but just on a small scale. However, the rest of Montana is probably more traditional, so when these traditional-gender-role kids come to attend the university there, they probably aren't prepared for the feministic/leftist culture.]

  21. chokingonredpills

    “I don’t even need women anymore for sex.”

    It goes back to Rollo Tomassi’s recent post “You need sex”.

    Do we need sex? Do men need sex? Do WOMEN need sex? Do Christians need sex? What should a single Christian man do to get some form of release for his pent-up sexual desires? What should a single Christian woman do to get some form of release for her pent-up sexual desires?

    I won’t do anything to a woman and I won’t want to do it because I have a younger sister. I’ve heard enough of stories of real rape and real abortions and what they do to people, their families and friends. Almost every few months, the pastors would remind us about abstaining from alcohol just so that we, as disciples of Christ, could present a good testimony. And by that, it extends to going to places where the predominant beverage is alcohol based. I got laughed and teased at by female companions or friends whenever I order something non-alcoholic at watering holes.

    Meanwhile, when I told my dates that I don’t drink (or smoke or go to watering holes), they look at me like I’m some weirdo or creep.

  22. Novaseeker

    That never blame the victim chick looks like she’s seen a mile of cock the morning she took that photo

    I’d have to agree that the photo is kind of the poster/wikipedia photo for Roissy’s “thousand cock stare”.

  23. sunshinemary Post author

    @ dorsey
    We used to attend the local Vineyard Church when we first started exploring Christianity. They are a good place for people who used to be atheists because they are sort of hippy dippy non-threatening. The pastor at our church always wore birkenstocks when he preached. The childen’s ministry leader was a single choice mommy. It doesn’t surprise me that they have female pastors; that right there should tell people all they need to know.

  24. Mike T

    Better that he walk away from that church in general for violating Paul’s teaching that women are to hold no position of authority (including instruction) over the church and men in particular within it. My response to other protestants who disagree with this is simple. You can say you “accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior” until you are blue in the face. When you reject scripture, you reject Christ because of what John 1 says about the relationship between scripture and Jesus.

  25. Just Saying

    “do women have any responsibility whatsoever for their own safety?”

    No. (But you already knew that was the answer didn’t you?)

    Long ago in college I had a female acquaintance, whom I intercepted several times being taken up stairs at various Frat parties – she was so drunk she could barely stand. I would take her to her dorm and pour her into bed. I did that three times during the first few weeks of the new year. After I got busy with exams, she came over crying because she was “raped” – I told her that she was not only asking for it but actively going out of her way trying to make it happen. I didn’t understand her motivation, but it was obviously something she wanted to happen. I had, and have, no pity for stupidity – and she was stupid. It is as simple as that – stupid, should be weeded out of the gene pool – unfortunately for women, it means they reproduce…. (Women often romanticize things only to find the reality rather brutal, so of course they run to Nanny Government to punish others since it couldn’t have been her fault.)

    I see it as similar to a man flashing $100 dollar bills in the Ghetto – sure it’s his right to do so, and not be mugged, but I’m not going to shed a tear when he’s beaten up (hopefully not killed) and all of his money taken. But in reality, he deserved it for being stupid and caused the chain of events to occur.

    Women do the same things – they get drunk off their ass and then want to be protected – um… Not happening… You were stupid and protection just ensures that you will continue to be stupid – better that you see the results quickly and get it out of your system…

  26. Anon

    Sidebar:

    Vinyard has a charismatic feel (at leas the one I visited when my friends asked me to help them find a church).

    There is nothing weirder to me than than looking around at all the people with their eyes closed, hands up to the air, swaying back and forth. I think “what are they experiencing that I am not? Did I miss something?”

  27. okrahead

    I will accept that all men must protect all women when all womyn accept the responsibility to protect unborn children.

    [ssm: Just so.]

  28. alcestiseshtemoa

    That never blame the victim chick looks like she’s seen a mile of cock the morning she took that photo

    Agreed. The Roissyian “thousand cock stare” can definitely be seen in the eyes. The eyes are the window into the soul.

  29. Dr. Illusion

    If I see a drink woman going home with a man, it’s not my business.

    If I see a drunk/high/rolling woman stumble off into the bushes with some man…..it is not my business, nor my problem.

    However….if you even touch my woman…..

    It is my duty to protect my woman from any harm. And if that involves a LOT of harm coming to another man….so be it.

    I protect my Mother. I protect my woman. I would protect my little sister, if I had one.

    But there is no onus upon me to protect any other woman from their own bad choices, or the choices of others.

    The easiest way for women to make themselves safe is to find a good man and marry or settle down with him. He will protect you. No man likes someone else touching his things. I know I don’t.

  30. earl

    Women need sex…men need violence.

    Sex and violence are cut from the same cloth. When you take out violence…you take out sex.

    The physical act of both is the lowest common deniominator…you want to get higher take both into your imagination.

    Why did the French women swoon at the enemy Nazi officers…well you tell me?

  31. Christina

    I vote for a “Protect Your Brothers from Predatory Females” campaign.

    If you see a guy grinding up on a drunk female and trying to get some, pull him away and get him out of there – save him from the sexual assault report that will destroy his life.

    Friends don’t let friends do drunk girls.

    [ssm: Brilliant. We need posters, though! LOL, we need to start a counter-campaign to warn men to stay away from women because women are dangerous. I wonder how that will go over with the feministas?]

  32. earl

    I want sexual violence to continue because:

    I want to bang every woman I see.

    I want to bang all the sins right out of her.

    So am I a pervert or a Christian?

  33. The Scolds' Bridle

    Let the white-knighting begin.

    What a bunch of pandering pussies these guys are.

    I especially liked the pencil-necked geek who has the “big losers” sign. He hasn’t probably seen a vagina since he slithered out of one.

    Also, I vote him “most likely to be pounded to smithereens when he tries to white knight for some chick”.

  34. deti

    The man photographed in the OP with the “Pass a strong Violence Against Women Act” and the flat top buzz cut and who resembles a small town high school principal is Montana U.S. Senator Jon Tester (D – of course, as if you didn’t know).

  35. earl

    “Meanwhile, when I told my dates that I don’t drink (or smoke or go to watering holes), they look at me like I’m some weirdo or creep.”

    Oh nozzzz…you just revealed their sins to them. While at the same time creating your own world. It takes big cojones to create your own world.

    I like dirty looks and insults from women. It means I’m getting closer to their truths….and attracting them at the same time.

  36. Martel

    If a woman held a sign saying “My best move to end sexual violence: Pack Heat!” I wonder if they’d put it on their website.

  37. The Scolds' Bridle

    Dear bar sluts of the world:

    I will not get between you and the consequences of your actions.

    However, I will get on the internet the next day and shame the daylights out of you for being such a tart.

    No charge!

  38. earl

    That’s probably why Reagan won in a landslide. He appealed to men because of his ability to say that you had the ability to take care of your problems. He appealed to women because he played manly characters in movies.

  39. deti

    @ SSM:

    “I like the idea of men protecting women. It makes me feel safe. In a society that was following biblical precepts, we could have that because both sexes would have an equal duty to look out for the well-being of others. God made men larger and stronger, so they are the natural protectors; women are smaller and weaker and are thus the natural servants, but both sexes are to care for the other.”

    Pretty much. But the way it worked was that biblically, men looked out for women out of the goodness of their hearts. In return, women let him take charge and they did what the men told them to do especially in a crisis or emergency. It was essentially

    Man: “Woman, I will do what I can to protect you until this emergency is over. You do what I tell you, go where I tell you, when I tell you, without argument and without question.”

    Woman: “OK.” And then she did it. With gratitude.

    Men did this because they are bigger and stronger, better able to fend off physical threats, and (let’s face it) better able to think clearly and form a plan in a crisis. Women did this because… they knew and understood all of the above.

    This reminds me of the Sheila Gregoire dustup at To Love Honor and Vacuum after Costa Concordia/Women and Children First. Remember that? Men bumrushing the lifeboats, pushing women and children out of the way? Women loudly complaining and demanding that men had a duty to die for women and children they didn’t know?

    Another woman at that site said she was on an elevator with a man she didn’t know and were getting off together on an unfamiliar floor. She half-expected this unknown man to get off first and clear the area of threats before she exited.

    The hubris.

    The basis for it was that men had this duty because “it’s the right thing to do”. If that’s the case, then women have a duty to stand down and submit. If a woman expects me to put myself in harm’s way for her, then she has a duty to do what I tell her to do, when I tell her to do it, where I tell her, not to argue with me about it, and then at least say “Thank you” afterwards.

  40. empathologism

    Some of the posters aren’t so bad, when you think about it

    I thought about it.
    The posters are all silly and infantile. Like pretty much all societal social outreach.

    Look at this one:

    http://www.thatsnotcool.com/‎

    Remember when you were young,
    You shone like the sun. (sorry, I was shining on crazy diamond and got sidetracked)

    When we/me/I…whatever were young we’d think how silly it sounded when the adults talked about things like sex and drugs, namely marijuana, and how utterly out of touch with any possible way to influence us they were. Think Refer Madness.

    It has gotten worse with endless ads running from “The Ad Council” telling us heavy things like “its hot today, make sure you drink plenty of water and find shade” (brought to you by this station and the Ad Council….go to drink-water-in-the-shade.com for tips on keeping cool)

    These posters are no more insightful that those ridiculous ads that introverts sit and think up and rate the effectiveness based on how the one writing the poster feels having done it.

  41. empathologism

    That never blame the victim chick looks like she’s seen a mile of cock the morning she took that photo

    Agreed. The Roissyian “thousand cock stare” can definitely be seen in the eyes. The eyes are the window into the soul.

    I think there is a little mousse in her hair……There IS after all, “Something About Mary”

  42. deti

    Nova, Dr. Illusion and Scold have it correct, I think.

    I have a duty to protect the women around me. Wife, daughters, mother, sisters.

    All other women are pretty much on their own. I don’t have a duty to play protective older brother to a slobbery drunk woman in a bar. I don’t have a duty to stand between a player and his target. I don’t have any obligation to assist an obviously-in-distress drunk/high/stoned woman. I have no obligation to help a single mom buy her cigarettes, Budweiser, and birth control pills.

  43. sunshinemary Post author

    I don’t have any obligation to assist an obviously-in-distress drunk/high/stoned woman.

    I think people have a moral duty to call the police if they see anyone who is in obvious distress. Beyond that, I agree with the rest of your comment 100%.

  44. Anon

    Deti-

    Your point branches off into the area of FI, and what not. My 16 year old son just back from a tour of Europe put on the group “People to People Ambassadors.” If you arent aware of it, its basically a hybrid tourist/exchange program with a little goodwill community service piece thrown in.

    The part that drove my son crazy? Feminine imparative. It came in the form of the boys being expected (assigned basically) to unload the luggage from the tour bus and organize it into piles that were easily accessible to the girls. They never said “thank you.” He asked some of the girls about it, and their answer was the simple, “you are boys.” He further questioned, “but what do you do?” Crickets.

    After the third or fourth time, my son started saying (under his breath, at first) “equality.”

    By the end of the trip he was being far more obnoxious about it , “EQUALITY!!!” He also had the ear of some of his male roomates in the evening and got a little mutiny going by the end. The no-balls white knight leader of the trip just ignored it and hoped it went away. I think I am teaching the boy well.

  45. earl

    You have a duty to protect those women that have proven some investment in you. That’s their reward.

    Mothers, wives, sisters, daughters…I would even go as far as extended family. Close ties is a thick investment.

    A random bar slut who gets a man into fisticuffs…she is on her own. Don’t coming running to me because I don’t clean up messes that I didn’t make.

  46. deti

    Here’s that Sheila post and comment I was talking about (pats self on back):

    http://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2012/01/women-and-children-first/#comment-9590

    Rachel: “I was sharing an elevator with a man about my age. When the elevator stopped, I automatically started to get off and he almost ran into me! I am so used to men letting me get off the elevator first, it hadn’t occurred to me that he wouldn’t. Once I righted myself, I got thinking about it and why would he let me off first? I am his equal.”

    Then I jumped in it:

    No one should be surprised at this. This is what women writ large fought for. The man does not know Rachel as a Christian woman. He identified her simply as a woman. He’s heard the messages from society: Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle. Women are men’s equals in every way. “Don’t you dare treat me as weak!! Don’t you dare patronize me!!” He dare not even make eye contact with a woman he does not know, lest he be labeled as “creepy” or a “potential rapist”.

    “I started to think if there was a scientific reason, and I could not come up with one. In fact, I thought maybe the man should go first to let him see if it’s safe (I’ve watched too much late night drama and seen too many people get attacked getting off elevators).”

    The entitlement complex Rachel just set out above is endemic of today’s society: Women believe men exist solely and only to serve and protect women — even women who are total strangers. This runs so deep, it is so ingrained in her psyche, that even women like Rachel can’t see it themselves.

  47. chokingonredpills

    @earl

    One thing I’ve learnt: Never tell a woman who isn’t my wife to the truth. And even if she’s my wife, I’ll be economical with it.

    As for insulting and putting them in their place (e.g., raging feminists [and there are many of them around me]), it’s something I’ll want to learn soon.

    And the funny thing is, after I told them I don’t drink, almost immediately they’d say, “I don’t drink that much actually…” I reckon something’s spinning in her head already.

  48. deti

    “He asked some of the girls about it, and their answer was the simple, “you are boys.” He further questioned, “but what do you do?” Crickets.”

    Hence the half-serious command: “Go make me a sammich.”

  49. deti

    Anon:

    Stories like that one above about the boys having to unload the girls’ luggage are why I train my daughter as I do. She isn’t under a duty to submit to boys in general but she has a duty to say thanks when a boy or a man does something for her. I require her to show gratitude when I or her brother do something for her. I also require it when any boy does something nice for her.

    Young girls, and teenage girls in particular, can get quite full of themselves and drunk on the attention they get. I try to knock her down a peg or two by, well, making her serve me sometimes.

    “Go get me another glass of water.”

    “Get me a steak knife.”

    “Take my shoes upstairs.”

    “My keys are on my dresser in my bedroom. Go get them.”

    These are done sparingly, and are always phrased as commands. I say thanks after she complies, but I don’t say “please”.

    The girls your son was with probably aren’t required to show any gratitude to anyone. It’s too bad, really.

  50. Robert in Arabia

    While living in Paris, the previous tenant had left behind a large coffee table photographic history of Paris. Looking at the dozens of photgraphs of the city during the occupation made it clear that the Germans were attractive and manly while most of the French men looked like metrosexuals. They still do.

  51. deti

    “I think people have a moral duty to call the police if they see anyone who is in obvious distress.”

    Agreed.

  52. Cautiously Pessimistic

    If a woman expects me to put myself in harm’s way for her, then she has a duty to do what I tell her to do, when I tell her to do it, where I tell her, not to argue with me about it…

    That’s one of my concerns for my wife. She’s not exactly canny about the potential for danger in her environment, and I’ve had to drill into her the idea that if she refuses to follow my lead in a public situation, she’s not entitled to my protection when the SHTF. This came to a head when we were in Jamaica and she wondered off by herself at a street market in spite of repeated warnings from me and the tour guide. Nothing too serious happened beyond her being scared out of her wits, but she could easily have ended up dead or raped. It’s nice that the experience seems to have driven home that she needs me for protection, and should listen to me concerning that issue. However, it would have been even nicer had she not needed a near-death experience to teach her common sense.

  53. chokingonredpills

    “This runs so deep, it is so ingrained in her psyche, that even women like Rachel can’t see it themselves.”

    “Damsel in distress” and “knight in shining armour” – weren’t these part of the fairy tales we read and heard as kids?

    Not sure about the guys, but I know of women who watched Titanic at least three times. I mean they might have loved the film to bits because of the romance and stuff, but having watched it so many times (the parts about “saving women and children first”), their hamsters would have been fed a century’s worth of entitlement mentality already.

    And oh, here are some choice photos of women who got drunk and wasted outside a popular club in Singapore: http://wastedsg.tumblr.com/page/3 (granted it hasn’t been updated for two years, it’s still happening there).

    Now, would I want to save any of these (youngish) women if they were dragged by a man?

  54. Ton

    I don’t know… I always thought the inter mountain west was pretty liberal, but then again there’s maybe 300 actual conservative/ traditional minded men in america so most folks look like commies to me

  55. anonymous_ng

    I thought the picture of the five girls talking about women using their voice was good until I realized they probably don’t mean screaming for help or telling homie to back the f&ck off and instead probably mean more man shaming.

    Frankly, I’ve reached the place where I no longer much care. I’m a creep? Fine. I’m sexist? Fine. I’m a racist homophobe? Fine. Call me what you will because I don’t agree with your liberal progressive ideals.

    I. DON’T. CARE.

  56. Ton

    Men should let women in and off elevators 1st. You never know whats on the other side of the doors, or if the elevator car is even there. Might as well put the low value woman at risk vs risking a much more valuable man

  57. ar10308

    ” It’s nice that the experience seems to have driven home that she needs me for protection, and should listen to me concerning that issue. However, it would have been even nicer had she not needed a near-death experience to teach her common sense.”

    They absolutely do need this.
    As I’ve said before, most Western women have NEVER been scared or struck to the point where they realize how much more powerful men are than they are and how much danger or protection they can provide.
    Call it “Female Privilege”.

  58. ar10308

    @Martel,
    From the article you linked:
    “Even Cosmo readers can’t avoid the reality of female hypergamy.

    My jaw just hit the floor. “Hypergamy” is now being used in the mainstream. Feminism’s days are numbered.

  59. earl

    “Men should let women in and off elevators 1st. You never know whats on the other side of the doors, or if the elevator car is even there. Might as well put the low value woman at risk vs risking a much more valuable man.”

    That’s why I open doors for women to let them in first. I need a human shield.

  60. Sean

    About thank yous from women….

    A group of men that I worked with (this is about ten years ago) and I went out during a lull and had a few pints. Across the bar sat a table of females that matched us for number. We then, before any of us knew red pill knowledge, proceeded to buy the table a round. The tray of drinks arrived and they proceeded to drink without acknowledgement or even thank you. I knew one of them from high school and figured she was always a “take home to Mom type” so I was shocked to not even receive thanks.

    Upon leaving the bar, I walked to the table and stopped. Four heads looked up with nary a bit of lady behavior. “You know, when men buy you drinks, the absolute least you can do is say thank you” and walked away without a look back. Heard their behavior didn’t change after that either.

    Last drink I ever bought a woman. Now going on 15 years.

  61. MathGuy

    Do all men owe all women the obligation of protecting them?

    No.

    And do women have any responsibility whatsoever for their own safety? Where is the alcohol education campaign? If the goal were truly to keep women safe and not just to advance a feministic political agenda, wouldn’t they want to do everything they could to teach women how to keep themselves safe? The obvious common denominator in many of these cases is excessive alcohol consumption; why not point that out to women?

    According to feminists, no. According to the gods of the copybook pages, yes. The latter are much more likely to collect their due in the long run.

    In fact, if feminists really care about women, how about encouraging them not to sleep with men to whom they are not married? And really, if men are truly as dangerous as feminists paint them to be, oughtn’t feminists encourage young women to stay completely away from men?

    If reality does not conform to your conclusions check your assumptions. I think you have answered both your “ifs” in the above sentence with “no”.

    As for my opinion, Feminist Hater has it right. Intervening in a sexual assault is too likely to get you accused of sexual assault as well…the poor thing, in her trauma, will think you’re helping rape her not help her.

    I will dial 911 if I see an honest to goodness assault, but then I’ll continue on my way.

  62. earl

    “Can they handle the truth anyway?”

    No…I’ve seen what happens when they handle the truth. That’s why I reserve my truth to a virigin bride.

  63. Farm Boy

    the “Rape Capital” of the country

    Should be “rape capitol”

    [ssm: Capital is correct.

    As a noun, capital refers to (1) a city that serves as a center of government, (2) wealth in the form of money or property, and (3) a capital letter. As an adjective, it means (1) principal, (2) involving financial assets, and (3) deserving of the death penalty. There are other definitions of capital, but these are the most commonly used ones.

    Capitol has two very specific definitions (outside ancient Rome): (1) a U.S. state legislature building, and (2) the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. State capitols are located in the capital cities of U.S. states, and the Capitol is located in the capital city of the U.S. If you’re not talking about any of these capitol buildings, then the word you want is probably capital.

    The Capitol building located in Washington, D.C. is spelled with a capital C, but state capitol buildings ordinarily don’t have the capital C (which is not to say that some writers don’t capitalize them anyway).]

  64. Farm Boy

    women dressing like sluts and getting drunk around horny drunk men — is not what they want to address because they don’t want to restrict women’s freedom of action

    Whether it was rape or not depends on how much the guy made her tingle.

  65. Anon

    From one of the posters “A girl that wasted is way easy to hook up with…so I made sure her friends got her out of there. She was is no shape to be going home with some guy.”

    Do the creators of this poster really see this working? Do they go to these parties?

    White knight party guy: “Hey girls, you really need to take her home. She is has been drinking too much and afraid something might happen.”

    Drunk girl and her friends: “Screw you creep! What are you looking at, freak?!”

  66. FuzzieWuzzie

    Univ. of Montana? isn’t that where the recent Dept. of Ed./ Dept. of Justice memo on new standards for sexual harrassment went? You know, the one that called for action before a hearing and based on subjective criteria instead of objective standards?
    One has to wonder how much male enrollment will drop in September.

    The “takeaway” from this post is that, without the ability to bamboozle blue pill beta men, this stuff is not going to get traction. It may be getting closr to the time when the fat lady sings.

    That reference to the Hikikomori was interesting. It is an extreme reaction, but acording to Butterfly Flower, Japanese men haven’t gone herbivore because of women. They went that way because of job prospects that couldn’t support a wife. She’s probably on the mark on this.

    As for riding to the rescue of strangers, it’s at my option. These entitled princesses cannot demand it. That’s the difference between chivalry and duty.

  67. deti

    ar10308:

    James Taranto wrote the article that Martel linked. Taranto is a MSM pioneer in inter-gender relationship writing because he’s using red pill manosphere terminology and is one of the first to do so. He’s written about hypegamy and used the term in prior articles.

  68. Farm Boy

    Drunk girl and her friends: “Screw you creep! What are you looking at, freak?!”

    Never get between a female and her tingles.

  69. earl

    “White knight party guy: “Hey girls, you really need to take her home. She is has been drinking too much and afraid something might happen.”

    Drunk girls: “Screw you rapist, we can do whatever we want…you are just thinking about getting into our pants.”

  70. Anon

    “Drunk girls: “Screw you rapist, we can do whatever we want…you are just thinking about getting into our pants.””

    Yes, this is kind of what I was getting at. It would be like “beta orbiter go away! We only screw hot drunk footbal players! You WISH you friggin’ perv!!”

  71. Rollo Tomassi

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/29/what-lies-beneath/

    Watch the video and you’ll understand the male protectionism dynamic.

    One of the foundations of the egalitarian equalism mindset is that traditional gender is a socialized set of behaviors leading to a gender identity. Equalism is based on discarding any preconceptions about innate gender identity, which is one of the primary reasons it’s proponents screech so vehemently against the ideas put forth in evo-psychology. There can be little or no room for questioning an equalist perspective in terms of the very obvious biochemical, biomechanical and ‘hard-coded’ psychology and manifest behavior of these for an equalist approach to push us towards utopia.

    But science and equalism are always shocked to come home early and find Mother Nature fucking the mailman. This experiment is an excellent example of this. In the equalist’s nirvana (also see ‘girl-world’) men and women in equal measure should feel equally compelled come to both the woman’s and the poor Omega male’s defense – sadly this isn’t the case. What we’re observing here, while socially uncomfortable, is really an illustration of Darwinian principles and the evolved psychology that manifest from hundreds of thousands of years of socialization. Protect the female, leave the male to his own devices. Women are the protected sex not because of social sensibilities, but because that’s what we’re psychologically hard-wired to do.

    There are intrinsic behaviors we have a natural propensity for that no one ever had to teach us. The reason a baby’s cry is so annoying to us is because we’ve evolved sensitivities to it to ensure the baby’s, and, by extension, our own species’ survival. This female protectionist dynamic is one of these intrinsic sensitivities. From either a rational or a moral perspective the social incongruities and seeming injustices of how these evolved manifestations play out are irrelevant – they are still motivated by the same evolved prompts that benefitted our species in the past. Women and children first isn’t a social dictate, it’s an evolved doctrine of survival.

    I’ve been following the trial of James Holmes (Aurora / Batman shooter) and I find it interesting that the majority of the male shooting victims died in an effort to throw themselves over or in front of women who were their girlfriends, dates or simply anonymous women in the line of fire.

    Funny how no mention of men’s ‘chivalry’ (like the Costa Concordia sinking) is made in the media about this.

  72. Martel

    And when you do exercise your “option” to protect them, there’s no guarantee she’ll even notice. I saw some guy hit his woman just beside my front yard once. I made a vocal inquiry, and she ran away from him and hid in my place.

    By the time the cops came (neighbors called), I was tempted to hit her myself.

    A cop was counseling her. He said that she needs to find herself a decnt guy. She drunkenly screamed “THERE ARE NO DECENT GUYS!!!” in the kitchen of a guy who just risked a fight to rescue her.

    When the night began, I was very sympathetic, but by the time the bitch left my house she almost got hit twice.

    Never again.

  73. MathGuy

    @Earl
    Women need sex men need violence.

    Sex and violence are cut from the same cloth. When you take out violence you take out sex.

    The physical act of both is the lowest common deniominator you want to get higher take both into your imagination.

    You reminded me of the following passage:

    From chapter one of Sexual Personae by Camille Paglia

    Sexual freedom, sexual libreation. A modern delusion. We are hierarchial animals. Sweep one hierarchy away, and another will take its place, perhaps less palatable than the first. There are hierachies in nature and alternative hierarchies in society. In nature, brute force is the law, a survival of the fittest. In society, there are protections for the weak. Society is our frail barrier against nature. When the prestige of state and religion is low, men are free, but they find freedom intolerable and seek new ways to enslave themselves, through drugs or depression. My thoery is whenever sexual freedom is sought or achived, sadomasochism will not be far behind. Romanticism always turn into decadence. Nature is a hard taskmaster. It is the hammer and the anvil, crushing individuality. Perfect freedom would be to die by earth, air, water, and fire.

    The chapter, interestingly enough is entitled, “Sex and Violence, or Nature and Art”.

    I think that quote sums up the entire “rape culture” story on most campuses. Perfect freedom, or license, has replace free choices by moral actors. When religion is weak men are free in the sense of license.

    As for her S&M comment, she wrote this over 30 years ago (the book was first published in 1991 but she shopped for a publisher for a decade). Last year, Fifty Shades of Grey took S&M the final step from weird to mainstream although that had been in process for at least a decade.

    I think these “rapes” as well as a significant number of actual rapes are just another expression of the mainstreaming of S&M. I think Pagilia it right; animalist and brutal sexuality is the logical endpoint of sexual freedom.

    Feminists wanted sexual freedom so badly I’m surprised they’re not enjoying the fruits of their labors.

  74. Martel

    “I’ve been following the trial of James Holmes (Aurora / Batman shooter) and I find it interesting that the majority of the male shooting victims died in an effort to throw themselves over or in front of women who were their girlfriends, dates or simply anonymous women in the line of fire.”

    And modern women see this noble, precious, God-given instinct as just something they can take for granted, denigrate, and abuse. To them, it’s a way to get leverage over White Knights to extract resources and protection from them. No gratitude, no recognition. Those who lost their lives that day mean NOTHING to the modern female.

    Betas are invisible.

  75. earl

    Martel brings up a good point.

    There are some guys who are “likes to fight guy”.

    However every guy has a switch that will go “has to fight”.

    Meaning you don’t know why a guy hits a woman…does he like beating her or his he going the self-defense route because she has pushed the nuclear switch. You don’t know the story from just witnessing a woman getting struck.

    If it isn’t your fight…stay out of it.

  76. Farm Boy

    She drunkenly screamed “THERE ARE NO DECENT GUYS!!!” in the kitchen of a guy who just risked a fight to rescue her.

    You did not make her tingle.

    The other guy made her tingle, but went too far from her perspective.

    Either way, there are no men that are “just right”

  77. earl

    “You did not make her tingle.”

    However had he knocked the guy out with his fists instead of words…*tingle* *tingle* you are a decent guy.

  78. ar10308

    “However had he knocked the guy out with his fists instead of words…*tingle* *tingle* you are a decent guy.”

    Nah, then the whore turns on you and fights you because you knocked out her man.

  79. earl

    “Nah, then the whore turns on you and fights you because you knocked out her man.”

    Hey, whatever it takes to get her to notice my dominance. She wants a piece of that fighter spirit.

    Seriously…that’s how messed up women are.

  80. Happyhen

    When I took my CC class so many moons ago the instructor, a former police man, very bluntly told us NOT to pull a gun even if you saw a woman being dragged into the bushes screaming. Now that may not make sense to folks but he said in his previous career he had seen it all and some people consent to some kinky stuff. Pulling a gun on folks who aren’t doing anything illegal is illegal. He said if you have any concerns, call 911. So, with that in mind, why should a man risk having the cops called on him for harassment or worse by “coming to the rescue” of a woman who may or may not need help? He shouldn’t.

    Were I or my husband ever in a situation where we had concerns, unless it was a woman we knew well, I wouldn’t do anything unless it was a possible phone call in the most extreme of cases (a woman being dragged into the bushes.) Otherwise, if she is an adult, well… she is an adult. I have to assume as a full equal in society she is cognoscente of her surroundings and able to ask for help if she needs it. A drunken girl at a frat party or bar in my opinion placed herself in a precarious position. Should she or her friends not have her best interest at heart, who am I to interfere?

  81. alcestiseshtemoa

    While living in Paris, the previous tenant had left behind a large coffee table photographic history of Paris. Looking at the dozens of photgraphs of the city during the occupation made it clear that the Germans were attractive and manly while most of the French men looked like metrosexuals. They still do.

    @Robert in Arabia – Both German men and French men can be quite attractive and masculine. But maybe, that’s just my personal limited opinion. Again.

  82. Butterfly Flower

    When I told my dates that I don’t drink (or smoke or go to watering holes), they look at me like I’m some weirdo or creep.

    I’m a fellow teetotaler, and I have received similar reactions. They often get defensive “What do you have against drinking?” (& I recently turned 21, so that means the people who criticized my abstinence from alcohol were expressing their approval of underage drinking *facepalm*)

    I don’t understand why consuming copious amounts of alcohol is such an important priority to modern American women. Don’t they realize what binge drinking does to their complexion? & the empty calories – the average Pina Colada has more calories than a Big Mac! I doubt most men would consider a woman’s abstinence from alcohol an unattractive trait.

    To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if we brought back the Temperance movement.

  83. Feminist Hater

    Here, four easy suggestions for women to avoid most ‘rapes’.

    1. Don’t get drunk.
    2. Get married young.
    3. Don’t go out clubbing.
    4. Always remain in big groups.

    And yes, blaming the victim is exactly what we should start doing. What do you expect when you play with fire, that you wouldn’t get burnt? Stupid is as stupid does.

  84. Farm Boy

    I don’t understand why consuming copious amounts of alcohol is such an important priority to modern American women

    Do they?

    Perhaps it is a tingle enhancer.

  85. Pingback: Are all men obligated to protect all women from sexual assault? | Viva La Manosphere!

  86. Ton

    Regarding Rollo’s video
    If a man cannot put his bitch in check, he’s not worth my time. He should be shamed and shunned from the company of men.

    Women however, like to mock/ play punch you when you’re a bigger man. Cannot tell you how many times I’ve told women to stop it & everytime their response is “I cannot hurt you”with a little shaming language thrown in. At which point I tell them its a matter of respect, and I will not tolerate disrespect in any form from anybody. Judging by their reactions, you’d think I was speaking in tongues

    Men use to kill each other over issues of respect and honor. That type of thinking needs to make a come back

  87. earl

    Drinking tons of alcohol is considered a manly thing to them. Why, I don’t know?

    There is only one thing that is manly they should go after…and it isn’t alcohol.

  88. Martel

    Regarding who’s side the “victim of abuse” would have taken, I probably would have had to beat the snot out of him. She still felt pretty loyal to him. When the cops tried to get her to press charges, “NO! If I do he’ll go back to jail and he’ll blame me!”

  89. davidvs

    Notice the double-standard about personal protection.

    As a male, most liberal/feminist females expect me to protect them. But they do not trust me to carry a gun because I am not a policeman.

    Yet police have no responsibility to protect individuals. And these same women do not trust police statistics about how often rape occurs.

    Do they trust police or not? Am I allowed to protect them or not?

  90. Butterfly Flower

    He’s a link to book the article mentioned, about alcohol abuse among American women: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1439184380
    It looks interesting, I am going to purchase it.

    I don’t mean to judge anyone who drinks – it’s just “getting drunk” has become, well, socially acceptable for American women, in a way that it wouldn’t be for men. Like, a man is told to go to AA and is portrayed as a substance abusing monster that needs to repent and apologize for his behavior continuously. An alcoholic woman is just making a lifestyle choice…?

  91. earl

    “I don’t understand why consuming copious amounts of alcohol is such an important priority to modern American women.”

    Have you seen what beer bottles look like? Wine bottles?

  92. Happyhen

    “To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if we brought back the Temperance movement.”

    Really? As a movement and as law it failed miserably and actually had the exact opposite effect. Prohibition is the only amendment to be repealed. Of course, it was championed by liberated women of the period. The idea of shaming or even criminalizing decent and law abiding people because a few in society act stupidly, irresponsibly, even criminally doesn’t fly with me.

  93. Ton

    The temperance movement was an utter failure. Why would any sane person want to bring it back…. Wait a tick. A woman wants to bring it back, no rational thinking in the equation

  94. Frank

    I have a couple of thoughts:

    Christians practicing their faith are just not going to be partiers, so they’re rarely be in a situation where they’ll see a drunken girl grinding up against a drunken guy. Because alcohol seems to be involved so much in these instances, we wouldn’t have to decide whether to intervene or not because we just wouldn’t be there to begin with.

    “1Pe 4:3-4 For the time past of [our] life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with [them] to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of [you]:”

    You know you’re doing something right when you have a tendency to avoid parties and draw the scorn of your colleagues for doing so.

    Secondly, I noticed that anti-rape message includes having to respect all women, regardless of their foolish actions, regardless of their bad behavior. I’m sorry, but I have no obligation to respect any woman for any reason, whatsoever. Respect for me is merit based. You want my respect? EARN IT.

    That said, I believe in chivalry (with wisdom) because it’s an extension of Christian charity. You act out of common decency not because people deserve it, but because it’s the right thing to do. I don’t believe that this is tantamount to respect. I do a lot of nice things for people I don’t respect after all. ;-)

    I include the caveat “with wisdom” because you can aid someone without exposing yourself to liability. It’s going to be a judgment call because every situation is different.

  95. FuzzieWuzzie

    Univ. of Montana-Missoula may be goundzero in manufactured rape culture. Did a little digging and thesr number came out of nowhere, all in the last two years.
    A serious case can be made for sexual harrassment of the men on campus by creating a hostile enviornment.
    Ray Charles could have seen that coming.

    What can the individual do in his own defense? Go online. All that can’t be done online would be lab work.Why approve this nonsense with your presence?

    Farm Boy,
    Was that a “Goldilocks” reference upthread? You should know that she is not welcome at the Bear family house. Too high maintenence.

  96. Frank

    BTW, I understand women are social creatures, but bar hopping/raving/whatever is a deal breaker for me for precisely the verse I quoted above. A woman who is wife material to me is going to be perceived as anti-social and a prude because she doesn’t like to get drunk and party.

  97. chokingonredpills

    Butterfly Flower:

    Many women (particularly the young ones) in my country (Singapore) can drink and they can sure drink. How did they get their training? You can check out the wasted tumblr link I posted earlier.

    Now, about their reaction when you tell them you are a teetotaler, the women’s reaction when I explain myself would easily be close to ill-disguised contempt for me as a male who doesn’t drink. It was bordering on “Gee, why am I out on a date with this weirdo/creep/sissy?”

    Frank:

    Women I knew from church (and at that time did not declare that they had renounced their faith) were the ones who brought me to watering holes and parties. They could sure their liquor well but thought of me as being “cute” (in some whimiscal way) since I was the only one in the group who ordered Diet Coke.

  98. Feminist Hater

    It was 2am, I offered her a ride thinking you never know… she might wanna ride that shaft all night long!

    I wonder how long before we see these posters having words changed for maximum effect?

  99. Ton

    One of the problems with women aping masculine behavior is they confuse 15 year old masculine asshole behavior as the gold standard. so they fall for dumb ass ideas like getting sloppy drunk is the be all and end all in genuine masculine behavior. Remember woman cannot tell the difference between reality and illusion

    Being able to consume large amounts of 100 proof and handle your shit is respected world over. Sloppy fall down drunk… not so much. But once again, girls are always telling me how they can drink me under the table.

  100. TMG

    As I believe women are strong and independent, I enthusiastically take every opportunity to let them fend for themselves.

  101. Frank

    Women I knew from church (and at that time did not declare that they had renounced their faith) were the ones who brought me to watering holes and parties. They could sure their liquor well but thought of me as being “cute” (in some whimiscal way) since I was the only one in the group who ordered Diet Coke.

    They were definitely insulting you there, but again that’s a badge of honor.

    I noticed this was a big problem when I was promoting my business as a freelancer at conventions like SXSW. One big huge fiesta of drunkenness, debauchery and noise. We are thousands of years removed from what Peter writes in Scripture, and absolutely nothing has changed.

  102. Butterfly Flower

    Really? As a movement and as law it failed miserably and actually had the exact opposite effect. Prohibition is the only amendment to be repealed. Of course, it was championed by liberated women of the period. The idea of shaming or even criminalizing decent and law abiding people because a few in society act stupidly, irresponsibly, even criminally doesn’t fly with me.

    I don’t mean bring back the Prohibition! I just think it wouldn’t be so bad if Americans stopped being so permissive of alcohol abuse. I’m half-Italian and my relatives in Venice who couldn’t go a day without a glass of Valpolicella would be appalled by the young American women guzzling wine to get drunk. Becoming inebriated on purpose isn’t the proper use of alcohol!

    I’m not talking about shaming the average Joe drinking a can of beer, I mean we should shame the sort-of people who go out to a bar or club with the intention of getting sh!tfaced. Speaking as the daughter of a restauranteur, people who get drunk on purpose are especially annoying because restaurants are legally held liable for the drunk person’s behavior – even if they held their alcohol well and lied to the bartender about the amount of drinks they consumed for the night (say they drank before they went to the restaurant). Restaurants are already legally liable to make sure patrons who seem a bit tipsy have a ride home: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_shop

  103. ar10308

    For guys who don’t drink, just tell the girls you used to have issues with alcohol. That will make them think you have a wild side (like guys have had trouble with the law).

  104. Deep Strength

    I don’t understand why consuming copious amounts of alcohol is such an important priority to modern American women.

    Because they are all depressed because feminism hasn’t made them happy.

    Something like 1 in 4 women are on psychiatric medications as well.

  105. St Swithunus

    “We are thousands of years removed from what Peter writes in Scripture, and absolutely nothing has changed.”

    Well…something has. It’s now empowering for a woman to be drunk and un-fay-er for her to bear any consequences.

    So, in conclusion, I think that it’s probably worse and getting worse.

    And people who dislike something, who then call for it to be made illegal solely on that basis, should not be given the vote. Prohibition was corrosive of law and order as millions thought the law was ridiculous – so they broke it.

    Just an opinion, or two.

  106. FuzzieWuzzie

    Deep Strength,
    “1 in 4 are on psychiatric medications as well.”
    Aren’t most of these antidepressants that kill their libidoes?
    Isn’t that a certain way to make sure someone stays depressed?
    This might go a long way to explaining why 50+ men have trouble dating.

  107. Flaming_Man_of_Iron

    Well, if you want a look at the discussion from the left wing POV

    take a look at:

    http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?695239-Rape-Culture-Don-t-Be-That-Girl

    I got piled on by even hinting at female responsibility for consequences of their behavior. No woman deserves to be raped just because she got drunk,but clubbing and partying has always had a dangerous element to it, women DO know they can get raped in those kind of activities.

    SSM I also wanted to personally thank you for this blog post… Something about those posters is just so unbelievably subversive it makes my skin crawl.

  108. Legion

    Butterfly Flower July 10, 2013 at 12:47 pm
    “…I wouldn’t mind if we brought back the Temperance movement.”

    I would mind. Personnel responsibility is the answer, not another layer of government and growth of criminal organizations.

  109. Butterfly Flower

    @ChokingonRedPills:

    So what my Malaysian friend told me about Singaporian girls was true ? (i.e. they’re crazy gold digging ho-bags byoches). She had to live in Singapore for a few years due to her father’s work – she was rather traumatized by the clubbing culture.

    Also, perhaps being a teetotaler confuses Singaporian woman and makes them suspect you are Malaysian (Malaysia is a dry country, I think)?

  110. donalgraeme

    @ ar10308

    For guys who don’t drink, just tell the girls you used to have issues with alcohol. That will make them think you have a wild side (like guys have had trouble with the law).

    Another good response is to tell women you don’t drink, and when they look at you funny, say: “It’s complicated…”

    That is something of a universal response.

  111. Deep Strength

    FuzzieWuzzie,

    Yep, why wouldn’t American Women be depressed? Haha, they got what they want but it doesn’t make them happy. Gotta fill that void somehow.

    The funny thing is (or sad thing really) is that it affects Christian women as well.

  112. theshadowedknight

    I could tell she was asking for it… so I told her to stop acting like a whore and leave me alone.

    She was on her own, so I made my move… and just shook my head in disgust and walked away.

    It was 2 a.m. I offered her a ride because you never know… if she gets raped we hear about it for weeks, and that gets old.

    A girl that wasted is way easy to hook up with… so she probably worthless as a wife.

    Better now.

    The Shadowed Knight

  113. chokingonredpills

    Butterfly Flower:

    I’m very tempted to disagree with what your friend said but isn’t it every woman’s dream to marry a rich husband and spend the rest of their lives in luxury (e.g., servants and maids to wait on her hand and foot, no need to work or find a job, fancy handbags, shoes, rings…). We have a highly urbanised and materialistic society here. Although a small car (1400cc or lower) can set one back by at least US$75,000 (which includes US$50,000 for a “certificate” to own the car), a guy would be hard-pressed to find or maintain a date because of many women’s expectations that they should be driven.

    All the women I dated (from a dating agency) were aware of my profile, so there is no confusion about whether or not I am a Singaporean. My female friends know that I’m a Singaporean.

    Note: Malaysia may be a Muslim country, but the sale of alcohol for non-Muslims is allowed (in certain states).

  114. Feminist Hater

    Perhaps a better idea would be to throw these back in their faces.

    Something like.

    My friend was about to get married to this skank… so I outed the bitch.

    I overheard a woman conniving to get herself pregnant… so I took it upon myself to slip her a morning after pill.

    A girl friend of mine started a fight she couldn’t win… so I left her to it.

    This girl told me she was all independent and shit… now she’s in a coma.

    Yes, women can have it all… rape included.

  115. hurting

    Cautiously Pessimistic
    July 10, 2013 at 11:03 am

    CP,

    My now ex-wife (legally anyway) used to drive me crazy with her ignorance of dangerous, potentially dangerous or just unwise situations. You Jamaica story reminded me of our trip there for our 5-year anniversary where she demanded to be able go purchase some of the ‘local fare’ as it were. I had to not so gently remind her that she was in a third world country with people who would slit her throat without so much as a second thought for the $20 in her pocket.

    Interestingly the most salient memory of the trip was her bitching about my hestinancy to go in the first place followed up by her pissy mood when we returned (simply for not being on vacation any more).

  116. Happyhen

    “I don’t mean bring back the Prohibition! I just think it wouldn’t be so bad if Americans stopped being so permissive of alcohol abuse.”

    It’s called a lack of personal responsibility. It is a failing that is not particularly unique to Americans but exceptionally human. Drinking with the intention of getting drunk is pretty common around the world and is hardly an American invention. The now frequent and common examples of females drinking to get drunk in public is a direct result of feminist thought. Eliminate feminist thought, reestablish the Patriarchy and what it upheld for eons and you will solve this problem. You can’t fix the symptoms without fixing the disease. You can however use the pulpit and the legislature to make silly codes and laws that shame and criminalize good people out of some misguided need to “legislate” personal responsibility in the chronically irresponsible in a way that has forever proven ineffective.

  117. thepatriotblogspot

    This is nothing but a big helping of “retard porn.” the way I see it, feminist twats, white knight mangina punk pu$$ies, and pathetic beta orbiters are all the time defending women and putting them on a pedestal. Not only that, but society as a whole has been saying for years that women are independent and they don’t need a man. Well, if they’re so strong and independent and don’t need a man, then they should be left to protect themselves. Anything else said is just lame posturing!

  118. Norm

    The VPD (Vancouver Police Dept.) has a campain called “Don’t be that guy”. ie having sex with a drunk woman. Makes sense, but I hope it doesn’t lead to false rape and paint all guys with the same brush. On the link there is also a story where Miss Congeniality was charged with looting in the 2010 Stanley cup riot in Van. Not really that great of a city. Nice scenery however.

    http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/728596/vpd-re-launches-dont-be-that-guy-campaign-to-prevent-sex-assaults/

  119. Feminist Hater

    You want to go party till 4 in the morning, get drunk, get raped and can’t remember a thing. Your responsibility.

    You want to go to a 3rd world country, you get raped and the guy walks free. Your responsibility.

    You declare your independence from men and then proceed to put yourself in harms way and get raped, assaulted and whatnot else. Your responsibility.

    Everything that women do is meant to illicit an emotional response from men, this is nothing different. Women choose time and time again to go out, late at night, get drunk, wear slutty clothing, take drugs and be in the company of dangerous and horny but exciting men in places that offer little to no protection. They choose to proclaim their independence, moxie and girrrrrl power whilst telling us that they cannot be held accountable for their own actions. Yea, pull the other one femcunts… women put themselves in danger, they willingly go out to seek men to give them tingles.

    Cry rape culture all you want, what we really have is a culture of slutty, feral and pathetic women, who not only tell us they don’t need protection but really actually don’t deserve such protection anyway.

  120. Horace

    The posters are about men AND women looking out for one another. It’s a solid message and reminds us that bystanders can make a huge difference in lots of situtations (not just sexual assault).. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=545156515520666&set=a.360833590619627.72897.316489315054055&type=1&theater

    It’s totally understandable that men don’t want to put themselves on the line for some woman they don’t know (and maybe even for women they DO know). But one would think they’d be willing to intervene to protect their friends from all these false allegations that are apparently swirling around?

  121. theshadowedknight

    FH, it is hiding with their sense of shame. I sent my sense of injustice looking for them, but it is seeing so much, it just has not found them yet.

    The Shadowed Knight

  122. FuzzieWuzzie

    Deep Sttrength,
    I have been musing on this antidepressant thing. It occurs to me that doctors have to be handing out prescriptions for this stuff to post-menopausal women like raffle tickets.
    Oops! Now, they’re unhappier.

    On the alcohol abuse thing, this has to be relatively recent. In the past, not only was it considered unladylike, it commonly understood to make women vulnerable, a situation to avoid away from a safe haven.
    Should “drunk in public” laws be enforced? Yes, it’s well past time and to instill shame and maintain safety. They did let themselves go to the point where they can’t look after themselves.

  123. Martel

    @ Butterfly: You may have meant a return to drunk-shaming, but what you said was a new Temperance Movement. Prohibition was a Progressive era reform along with the income tax, direct election of senators, and womyn’s suffrage, all of which proved to be disasters. (I could elaborate on the pathetic results of Prohibition’s evil grandchild, the Drug War, but that’s for another time.)

    But a simple solution to so much of our problems is to simply hold women accountable for their own actions. Buy your own damn birth control, have to PROVE you were raped to get the guy convicted, no special government daycare programs for women who want to stay in jobs. Private charity would be available for those women willing to turn their lives around, but the price for that charity might just be some priest giving her an earful for having been such an idiot.

    Regarding pregnancy, I’m tempted to think that for any man to be declared the father of any child (in or out of wedlock), he should have to voluntarily submit to and “pass” a paternity test. Cuckolded beta husbands will get some nasty surprises, cads won’t take the test, in which case mommie has to raise the kid on her own WITHOUT state support.

    I’d like to expand on Ton’s idea earlier on false rape penalties. Anybody found to have made up a charge against somebody has to face the same penalties that the person they accused would have faced had they been found guilty (and why restrict it to rape?).

  124. Feminist Hater

    Martel, since false rape accusations never happen, according to femcunts, that should really be no problem. What are feminists so afraid of? I mean, a woman never lies and she surely wouldn’t lie about something so serious as a rape charge? Nope, never!

  125. Martel

    @ Fem Hater: Exactly. We could even market it as a way to reduce false crime accusations in general (since rape accusations are so rare) and maybe sneak it under the radar that way.

  126. sunshinemary Post author

    We’re missing something here on the false rape allegation thing. I touched on this in the last comment thread.

    I believe the bulk of sexual assault allegations involving an alleged attacker known to the alleged victim are false. However, of these false allegations, I think relatively few of them involve a completely fabricated story, where a woman accuses a man she’s had no contact with of assaulting her.

    What happens in the majority of these cases is that the woman originally probably consented (or at least didn’t object) to having sex with the accused man. Afterward, for a variety of reasons, she feels really horrible about it. Enter the feminist-controlled campus sexual assault center whispering in her rationalization hamster’s ear about date rape, and suddenly it all makes so much sense to her! She couldn’t possibly be feeling terrible unless maybe she didn’t really consent, says her hamster. Her feminist BFFs are all right there to tell her how rapey the whole interaction sounds, and before you know it, the woman herself believes she was raped.

    So, to summarize, there are two kinds of false rape accusers:

    1. Women who plan to outright lie and fabricate a story. These women know their rape accusations are false.

    2. Women who never planned on accusing anyone of rape, who later feel bad about a sexual encounter and become convinced that they were raped. These women do no realize their rape accusations are false.

  127. Anonymous Reader

    Humph. I am disappointed that none of the usual tradcon White Knights have arrived, to set us all straight with the fact that all men do indeed have a duty to go and do whatever it takes to defend any random woman from anything – broken nail, drowning in shipwreck, “sexual assault” by the captain of the football team – that might befall them. Because women are worth more than men – any woman, any woman at all – and we should be glad to abase ourselves before the goddesses…oh, oops, er, nevermind that…

    Oh, where is “GKChesterton”, when we so obviously are in need of his Deep Thoughts?

  128. Happyhen

    ” Anybody found to have made up a charge against somebody has to face the same penalties that the person they accused would have faced had they been found guilty (and why restrict it to rape?).”

    …and pay the legal fees of the person they falsely accused, no after the fact civil suit necessary.

  129. Feminist Hater

    You forgot the third one SSM. Where a consensual sexual encounter is used later as a form of revenge on the man who rejected her, by making it into a fabricated rape. I believe these form a major portion of false rape accusations.

    ssm: Could be. It could also be that she feels so hurt and angry after the relationship ends that she imagines that she was abused. I have an example of that right in the woman’s own words, but I’m going to use it in a post next week, so I won’t link to it now.

  130. van Rooinek

    Anybody found to have made up a charge against somebody has to face the same penalties that the person they accused would have faced had they been found guilty (and why restrict it to rape?).

    Deuteronomy 19:16-21
    If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime, the two people involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the Lord before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you. The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you. Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

    Interestingly the one place this actually is found in today’s legal system, is in the definition of sexual harassment. A friend of mine who was threatened with a bogus harassment suit, researched the law (not sure if this was Calif or Federal), and found that the law treats false accusation of sexual harassment, as a form of sexual harassment itself. When the golddigger was informed of this, she quickly dropped the case.,

  131. Feminist Hater

    ssm: Could be. It could also be that she feels so hurt and angry after the relationship ends that she imagines that she was abused. I have an example of that right in the woman’s own words, but I’m going to use it in a post next week, so I won’t link to it now.

    What are you getting at? Should we give them a free pass? Are you saying that most false accusations of rape are because wimmenz be crazy and shit? Are women that volatile that one second they love you and the next they imagine the entire relationship was one of rape and abuse?

    It all boils down to the same thing. Women are not trust worthy to take the stand, vote in elections, be lawyers, Judges, or sit in any position of power at all. Take note, George Zimmerman…

  132. nightskyradio

    SSM – Stupid, useless platitudes that do nothing to address the problem. How much funding did this campaign receive from the city and state governments and the university, I wonder?

    Exactly enough to ensure re-election and the uninterrupted flow of tax dollars and political contributions.

    deti – The man photographed in the OP with the “Pass a strong Violence Against Women Act” and the flat top buzz cut and who resembles a small town high school principal is Montana U.S. Senator Jon Tester (D – of course, as if you didn’t know).

    Badda-bing!

  133. sunshinemary Post author

    I just clicked over to Viva La Manosphere; three of the nine posts on the first page (including mine) are about false rape accusations. This pleases me.

  134. sunshinemary Post author

    Should we give them a free pass?

    No.

    Are women that volatile that one second they love you and the next they imagine the entire relationship was one of rape and abuse?

    Yes.

    Women are herd animals. They don’t come up with such ideas on their own, but if the herd says the reason she feels so bad about that sexual encounter was because she was probably raped…well, who is she to argue with the herd? That’s how the hamster works.

  135. Anonymous Reader

    Horace, please do expound a bit more. It is not clear what you are trying to say.

    SSM, you likely are correct. But the damage done to a man, especially a young man, by false rape accusations is independent of the intent of the woman (or women). Whether it is “only” being kicked out of a college, or it takes the form of jail and/or prison time, it does not matter why the false accusation is made. If someone runs into me on the tteet with a car, the damage done to my body is indepenednt of whether the driver was drunk, or texting, or deliberately trying to run me down. I’m still all busted up, right?

    Think about this from the man’s perspective and one path to avoid both 1 and 2 is simple:
    GYOW and have as little to do with any woman, ever, as possible.

    There are other routes, to be sure, but the simplest one is avoidance. Shun women in all places. In all cases.
    This is the real lesson that men in their 20’s are having pounded into them. Another win for Team Woman…congrats on getting the Betas to shun you socially when you are 20-something carousel riders.. Good luck getting them back when you are closing in on The Wall.

  136. Frank

    Women are herd animals. They don’t come up with such ideas on their own, but if the herd says the reason she feels so bad about that sexual encounter was because she was probably raped…well, who is she to argue with the herd?

    So what herd gave you the idea to submit to your husband?

  137. donalgraeme

    By the way, looking at all of these photos again served as a stark reminder that sending your children to a modern university is tantamount to child abuse. Between the indoctrination and the latent threats to health, mental well-being and spirituality, I cannot think of a worse place to send your child. Even a war-zone would be better, because they would presumably be able to shoot back at their enemies.

  138. theshadowedknight

    I have a simple solution to the problem of women. I treat every one of them as an enemy. I never allow myself to be isolated, never consider one a friend, never allow them to know what I think, never let them get close. If a woman is within arms reach, you have a problem. If you do not have at least two other men that can see you and a woman is near, you have a problem. If you trust a woman, you have a problem. If a woman knows how you feel about her, you have a problem.

    The Shadowed Knight

  139. Ton

    If you think the us government lets you shoot back at the enemy you are mostly mistaken. They kind of sort of but not really let you

  140. theshadowedknight

    Donal, you would be wrong. Hearts and minds is the new strategy for victory. We are going to let them splash our hearts and minds all over the landscape with roadside bombs and ambushes. We do not want to offend the people with whom we are at war by killing them. The brass will abandon the grunts if it looks like it could hurt their careers to support them. It has happened a few times.

    The Shadowed Knight

  141. Rollo Tomassi

    When I was finishing my degree in 2004 there was a university-wide effort to make male students aware of what exactly constituted rape. Apparently women already had an innate understanding of what defined rape so it was men who were the target demographic then.

    As a prerequisite of enrollment, we were required to watch a video and then sign a leger that documented that we had watched it. The video detailed scenarios that essentially stated that anything that forced a woman into having unwanted sex constituted rape. Most of the vignettes seemed pretty remedial to me at the time, until the scenario wherein a boyfriend threatens to break up with his girlfriend for withholding sex from him was used as an illustration of rape.

    The guy (super-douchey-frat-boy Alpha caricature) tells his new girlfriend he’s going to break it off with her because she refuses to have sex with him. If she does have sex with him due to emotional coercion, it’s technically rape because it’s unwanted sex and not on her terms in her frame. What this distilled down to was a guy’s ultimatum, no matter how ambiguous, to remove his emotional attention from a woman based on her willingness to have sex with him constitutes a condition for a rape scenario.

    Naturally this didn’t sit well with me because of the nuances of how women may or may not interpret an ultimatum, or assume one that was never intended or inferred. Later I was told, in very absolute terms, that if a woman felt she needed to have undesired sex in order to keep her boyfriend’s commitment, that constituted emotional extortion and thus she was raped.

    No alcohol. No grinding on a dance floor. No provocative clothing. Just a boyfriend contemplating leaving his girlfriend for a better sexual prospect constitutes the precondition for rape.

  142. FuzzieWuzzie

    “Three out of nine posts…”
    SSM, I said you are a giant in this realm. It wasn’t flattery. They’re following your lead.
    About pedestalization, you did say something about presenting the true nature of women. Not to make us run away in horror, but deal with reality as it is. Why do I feel like running away?

    Guys,
    Things are well past the point where we have to sell ourselves to women.
    It’s now on them to show us how they can make an improvement in our lives. This concept is NOT all about sex,. It’s about teaming up.

  143. Peter Blood

    @MathGuy “I think these “rapes” as well as a significant number of actual rapes are just another expression of the mainstreaming of S&M. I think Pagilia it right; animalist and brutal sexuality is the logical endpoint of sexual freedom.”

    It was what the Marquis de Sade was all about.

  144. donalgraeme

    @ Ton, TSK

    I used the word presumably for a reason. I am more than well aware of the problems with ROE in the military right now.

    @ Rollo

    That is simply absurd. I consider myself lucky that I somehow managed to avoid that kind of madness at my university. The absurdity of it reminds me of the tragic story of Jemma, in one of SSM’s previous threads to address this subject. Nothing quite like an actual rape victim confronting the people promoting this nonsense.

  145. FuzzieWuzzie

    TSK,
    “hearts and minds”
    That rings bells and reminds me of the Vietnam era. It didn’t work then.
    Somebody must think we all have short memories.

  146. earl

    Well feminist women…if basically any sex is rape then men will find other ways to unleash the violence.

    Now for me that is taking out my inner demons…for other guys that might be breaking into your precious car and stealing all your pretty toys. Or some guy might snap and decide to play target practice at a school or other office buildings where handguns aren’t allowed. Perhaps a guy will decide one day to take some fertilizer and blow up a building…or take a baseball bat and beat up mailboxes. I supposed lack of raping vaginas will result in men raping the Earth.

    Better hope that internet porn, the war on terror, video games, and estrogen in the water supply and plastics keeps the beast at bay.

  147. jamesd127

    A woman asking for protection without a relationship is like a woman asking for free drinks.

    Heartiste has some tales of the lack of appreciation received by white knights. It is a fitness test. Women demand white knighting, and despise the white knight when he complies.

    The traditional position was that men had no obligation to protect sluts from sexual violence, because they probably liked it anyway, and, more importantly, because if a woman was not under the authority of husband or father, there were no males who were personally and individually obligated to protect her. Collective responsibilities, collective goods, tend in practice to be under provided, and then we rationalize under providing them.

    A collective duty is chilly thing. We supply it grudgingly, ineffectively, and poorly, and we are unappreciated when we do supply it.

    I don’t see any biblical directives to provide collective goods. Rather welfare and protection is supposed to be provided through the family. Saint Paul specifically tells us that church charity should not displace or compete with the family. The Christian should provide collective goods to the deserving as a last resort when provision through the family fails through no fault of the victim. And, in practice, even then it is apt to be as cold as charity.

    [ssm: +1000... I agree with everything in this comment.]

  148. theshadowedknight

    Peter, have you perhaps missed all of the posts and comments where women discuss how erotic they find hair pulling, spanking, pounding, etc? Dominant/submissive sex is not something that women are forced into. Most women are far more towards the right of that spectrum than you might expect. Chokers have been a staple of womanly dress for a long time, and you know what those stand for, right?

    The Shadowed Knight

  149. rmaxgenactivepua

    This is what a world looks like with no manosphere in the real world

    The vagina worship causes a daily stampede of hamsters

    As they try to renact the fantasies of butch, bitchy, permanently pms’d lesbians

    Women need the alchohol, to cover up the fact they’ll never be able to attract a beta

    Their lives of hard sex, makes them too masculine for guys in general

    Only high testosterone male’s touch women too masculinised by being a whore … since the age of friggin six …

  150. an observer

    riding to the rescue of strangers, 

    As said by others, no. Basically, relatives like wives, daughters, sisters,and mothers only.

    As I believe women are strong and independent, I enthusiastically take every opportunity to let them fend for themselves.

    Preach it, brother.

  151. Farm Boy

    they got what they want but it doesn’t make them happy. Gotta fill that void somehow.

    Dildo?

  152. Miserman

    earl wrote,

    I supposed lack of raping vaginas will result in men raping the Earth.

    Help me out here? Whose side are you on? Men’s? Feminists?

  153. donalgraeme

    To echo what TSK said, forceful sex is something that women want. I suspect because it allows them to really gauge the worth of the man. It is not a perversion, it is part of female nature.

    [ssm: This is really true, and it plays into some of what is going on with the cries of "rape culture". I'll say no more about that now. I have posts on this subject that I'm trying to sanitize and make fit for public viewing.]

  154. rmaxgenactivepua

    Great comment from therawness.

    “Women don`t understand how content men can be with a position that is not “equal”

    and they don`t understand the willingess of men to seamlessly (mostly) swap position and status and to seemingly fight the other in competition without it being seen as hostile but just a “part of the game”, as men do. “

  155. Farm Boy

    Because they are all depressed because feminism hasn’t made them happy.

    Clearly the solution to that is more feminism.

  156. Farm Boy

    Was that a “Goldilocks” reference upthread? You should know that she is not welcome at the Bear family house

    I always wondered about her as a kid. What kind of chick lets herself into somebody else’s house, eats their food, and then crashes?

  157. Farm Boy

    forceful sex is something that women want

    So sometimes “no” means “YES”.

    Put that on a poster.

    [ssm: Yes, Farm Boy, sometimes no means hold me down and take me anyway. I am speaking only to married spouses here, of course; singles should be chaste, naturally, and should not even be worrying about when no means yes. Given the outrage of marital rape laws - and why is the state managing sexual relations in that most private of relationships, marriage? - men must act as if no always means no. If she says no, then you have to stop, but it was not always thus, and there was a good reason why it was not. But that is far too politically incorrect for public discussion.]

  158. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    “Clearly the solution to that is more feminism.”
    Didn’t Albert Einstein have something to say about applying more of the same and expecting a different outcome?

  159. theshadowedknight

    Even more than just want, Donal, they *need* that sex. SSM does not want to get into this on her blog, but I wrote a comment about it on a post a few weeks ago. I am thinking of writing something up on the subject. Make no mistake, it is even more necessary for women than men. We just really like it. Out of respect for the blog hostess I will not get into details.

    The Shadowed Knight

    [ssm: I think a handful of us have been simultaneously reaching some similar conclusions on this subject. There isn't much that is too taboo for me to discuss, but this is one that even I don't quite have the nerve to touch yet. I've had some off-the-record conversations with several people on this subject. There is a lot here that has to be left unsaid. It's comforting to me, though, that others are reaching similar conclusions. I keep trying to drop little breadcrumbs into posts and comments here and there, hoping people will get to these conclusions on their own, TSK.]

  160. FuzzieWuzzie

    TSK,
    It’s not just about sex. Feminism has sought to achieve dominant status to women by default. This applies to all interactions between the sexes. Since most women are submissive by nature, this has resulted in a lot of wierd outcomes.It’s not socially healthy.

    “Oh dear, oh dear, oh my ,oh my, how do I get this jar of honey from my head?”

  161. Frank

    To echo what TSK said, forceful sex is something that women want.

    Which is why the safest way to practice the fine art of heaving a hot babe over your shoulder and carrying her upstairs for an all night fiesta that could wake even the dead is within the context of marriage.

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOO! http://bit.ly/12n7ejS

  162. Ton

    Laughing my ass off at the notion marriage is a legally safe place to have sex.

    A good way to turn a woman into a puddle of girl goo is wrap your hand around her throat while you…… fill in the blank

  163. Frank

    Laughing my ass off at the notion marriage is a legally safe place to have sex.

    It does provide the safest setting because there’s no nuance such as there were if this were some drunken hoochie mama you met at a frat party.

    I’m obviously speaking of the ideal though, with the precondition that 1) the wife understands that sexual access is part of the contract of marriage and 2) she married you for all the right reasons, like actual true love and stuff.

    Love and marriage, they go together like a horse and carriage! I think I heard that somewhere…

  164. Ton

    Frank you need to live in the real world. Marriage 2.0 offers no legal protection for men at any level. Your wife can still say you raped her, abused her etc etc.

    Your wife can kill you in your sleep and get off easy by claiming you were abusive. She doesn’t even need multiple trips to the ER to collaborate her story.

    Your wife can cut of your cock and get fuck all for prison time AND become a hero by claiming you abused her.

    Whake the fuck up brother or reap the whirlwind

  165. donalgraeme

    TSK, I think women “need” forceful sex in the same way that they “need” an Alpha man. It is something that brings them emotional assurance and satisfaction (not simply sexual satisfaction) like nothing else. Maybe satisfaction isn’t the right word, perhaps validation is. But you are correct that for men the need is for sex itself, for the release. It is much more a biological need or urge with men, as compared to a woman’s emotional need (because for women sex is as much emotional as it is overtly biological).

    SSM, regarding rape culture, if you are hinting that women are projecting unfulfilled wishes and dreams through their apparent phobias, then I think we are on the same page.

    As for marital rape laws… their purpose was always to destroy the institution of marriage. If you wanted to protect women from violent men, battery laws were sufficient. But by giving women a “choice” within marriage about sex, you hand them a tool, a weapon to use against men vis-a-vis fitness tests. And that weapon is nearly impossible for men to defend against.

  166. Frank

    Frank you need to live in the real world. Marriage 2.0 offers no legal protection for men at any level. Your wife can still say you raped her, abused her etc etc.

    What part of preconditions didn’t you understand?

  167. Farm Boy

    Make sure girls and women know how to use their voice.

    Has that ever been a problem in our modern era?

  168. theshadowedknight

    Donal, I meant need in a literal sense. Sex is very emotionally charged for women, but they need it in a physical, biological sense as well. Like I said, SSM asked me not to go into this, but if you like I can email you some links that help show my point.

    The Shadowed Knight

  169. FuzzieWuzzie

    Ton,
    Catherine Kieu Becker, the woman who cut off her husband’s you know what, got sentenced. Life with the possibility of parole in seven years.
    However, in a similar incident in Australia recently, the wife got four years even though the husband died. Four years for murder isn’t justice.
    Penalties are very inconsistant with female defendants.

  170. Farm Boy

    However, in a similar incident in Australia recently, the wife got four years even though the husband died.

    The operation was a success, even though the patient died.

  171. Anonymous Reader

    FuzzieWuzzie, do a search on “Lorraine Bobbit”, likely that is what Ton is referring to. Also search on “burning bed”,
    and “Mary Winkler” for good measure.

    You are wrong. Penalties for female defendants tend to be quite consistent. Consistently lenient.

  172. Farm Boy


    Didn’t Albert Einstein have something to say about applying more of the same and expecting a different outcome?

    No, that was Wile E. Coyote

  173. Farm Boy

    Penalties for female defendants tend to be quite consistent. Consistently lenient.

    It depends on how pretty the defendant is.

  174. Farm Boy

    “Oh dear, oh dear, oh my ,oh my, how do I get this jar of honey from my head?”

    Are you sure it is not a condom?

  175. earl

    “Help me out here? Whose side are you on? Men’s? Feminists?”

    Men…however I do we have a nature that can be either constructive or destructive. Feminists are doing a great jobs at being pawns for the evil elites….they bring out the destructive behavior in these men very well.

  176. van Rooinek

    Are all men obligated to protect all women from sexual assault?

    We can’t be obligated to do the intrinsically impossible. The good man is seldom around when the bad man makes his move.

    In the case of street attacks and similar, thugs and pervs usually aren’t stupid — they seldom strike when a potential rescuer is around.. FWIW, when I was in my 20s, one of them DID make that mistake when I was nearby. Yes, I intervened, and I’m lucky I didn’t get stabbed. The would-be victim graciously thanked me.

    In the case of high-school and college drinking parties, good men cannot protect the girls, for the simple reason that THE GOOD MEN ARE NOT THERE — THEY DON’T GO TO THOSE PARTIES. All the good men of Steubenville, were at home, doing their homework.

  177. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    “Are you sure it was not a condom?”
    You mean like this?

    Sorry SSM. i just took your “class” factor down another notch.

  178. an observer

    Fuzzie,

    Thats a consistent pattern. Just look at how differently teachers that sleep with their students are treated, depending on whether the teacher is male or female.

  179. Ton

    Let’s also not forget PMS, was used to justify a wife killing her husband, which stared the joke PMS, stands for permissible man slaughter.

    I’m thinking marriage may not even provide men a Bibcialy/ Godly sanctioned outlet for sex as the woman most men marry is probably viewed by God as property of which ever man took her virginity.

    My over all point being marriage conveys no legal protection for men, and possibly no spiritual protection either.

  180. FuzzieWuzzie

    Observer,
    It seems that every week a new female teacher with male student scandal is revealed.
    Are there any more male teachers left? False accusations are a significant job hazard and are expected.

  181. Take The Red Pill

    I have a simple Rule of Thumb concerning Modern Womyn and “protecting” or “assisting” them (i.e., chivalry): If I don’t know them personally (they’re not a relative or friend), I owe them NOTHING. They’re on their own; the most I’ll do is call 911 (and from a safe distance; I don’t need false accusations).

    Modern Womyn are “strong and independent” and “need a man like a fish needs a bicycle”. They said so.
    Suits me.
    Bed. Made. Lie. ALONE.

  182. an observer

    Hey,

    You know that iphone you bought the teenage daughter? The one you bought to keep her safe? The one she uses to take selfies and post them?

    Yep. Thats mens fault.

    As feminists, we correctly blame patriarchy because boys are securely at the top of the status game. Boys end up with the authority. They have their cake and eat it.

    What are the odds the teen girl that wrote this isnt that good looking?

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/dark-undercurrents-of-teenage-girls-selfies-20130710-2pqbl.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

  183. Farm Boy

    You know that iphone you bought the teenage daughter? The one you bought to keep her safe? The one she uses to take selfies and post them?

    Yep. Thats mens fault

    That would be Steve Jobs, and he is dead.

    Perhaps there is a connection

  184. Hannah

    @Ton:
    “…viewed by God as property of which ever man took her virginity.”

    What should be done then with the child who is sexually assaulted?

  185. Ton

    Hannah dearest, great question. I don’t know the answer but my assumption is she would be free to marry since the sin wasn’t her’s.

    Real ra

  186. Farm Boy

    Women want attention…but don’t be a creeper bro! How does the average man navigate that?

    In Montana they do that by going fishing.

  187. Ton

    Victims of real rape are not guilty of any sin. The sin was forced on them aginst their will by their rapist

    The flip side of that is woman use that logic to file false rape charges to reduce their slut factor

  188. theshadowedknight

    SSM, I would like to participate in those conversations, if you have no objections. I am going to be writing a lot on these subjects and it would be good to have them examined and checked for accuracy. I have some insights of my own that I can offer.

    The Shadowed Knight

  189. FuzzieWuzzie

    Observer,
    Followed your link and now, I know what a duck face selfie is.This a race to the bottom and all their eggs are going into one basket.
    Don’t trip!
    It’s no wonder why I’m hearing about boys in high school going MGTOW. They’d fail as girlfriends, much less as wife candidates.

  190. an observer

    Fuzzie, I am encouraged when I see teenage boys using dark triad behaviours. There is hope for them yet. The girls themselves are innoculating the boys against any future serious LTR outcomes.

    Even the teachers join in:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359515/Woman-teacher-27-sex-17-year-old-pupil-spared-prison-handed-community-order.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359404/Revealed-The-dirty-text-messages-sent-teacher-24-pupil-16-week-affair-tattooed-body.html

  191. FuzzieWuzzie

    Observer,
    I don’t know what to think any more. It’s hard to think kind thoughts in the wake of the last few days comments.
    Is this a hardware or software defect?

  192. Hannah

    Ton, thanks for your thoughts – it’s a tricky one.

    Essentially being sexually assaulted is physically the same as having sex but the spiritual consequences are ghastly.
    The results are loss of innocence, shattering of purity and broken modesty.
    Instead of the union of souls, you have one soul forever bruised.

    That is beyond difficult to recover.

    If a person is physically attacked it is not their fault that their arm gets broken and it will heal.
    If the same person has their arm severed instead there is a different result.
    How do you heal from amputation? It matters very little that it’s not your fault.

    Difficult to know what advice to give people in this situation beyond restoring modesty and boundaries.

    Meanwhile, I hope you read my apology several posts ago for my dull moment. Sorry. I really hope I didn’t annoy you too much!

  193. Farm Boy

    It’s hard to think kind thoughts in the wake of the last few days comments.
    Is this a hardware or software defect?

    Not a defect

  194. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    I have to wonder if, in frustration, Luke wanted to strangle Yoda for cryptic answers in his individual syntax. Even the Pythia was more verbose and specific.
    “The Persians will fall before your walls of wood.”

  195. Hannah

    Regarding the OP, I don’t understand why they would use MEN in these ads in the first place?!

    Feminism would push that these guys are not needed by women anyway.
    Equality would push that the women that NEED these guys don’t really need these guys anyway. (Apparently they’ve got all the arsenal they need right with them at all times!?!eesh)

    As for me I think that any interaction between a male and a female is potentially sexual.

    Therefore these guys shouldn’t be anywhere NEAR a woman in the situations that are advertised. If she’s like the majority then he becomes the messenger. Gotta shoot something.
    If she’s the minority then she shifts her drunken sexuality onto him they have sex and it changes their friendship forever.

    Instead ads like this should have WOMEN saying what they would do for their drunken female friends.

    “She was on her own, so I made my move and told the guys hassling her to back off because she has chlamydia. I told HER she was really crossing the line into Binge Drinking and I would call AA in the morning.”

    “I could tell she was asking for it. So I told her she must start to dress and act like a lady.”

    “It was 2.am I offered her a ride to rehab.”

    “A girl that wasted is WAY too easy to hook with so I called her PARENTS. Enough’s enough some things go beyond the friendship code of silence.”

  196. Hannah

    I was reading a book today called ‘Doesn’t Anyone Blush Anymore’ by a Rabbi Manis Friedman.
    I read something that reminded me of this post and also of The Shadowed Knight:

    “Our society is convinced that we can flirt with borders and never really violate them. Fatal Attraction points out that we can’t. Passion isn’t that simple; once we let it in, it won’t leave so quickly. Any passion that we have no intention of following through on or any attraction to which we will have to eventually say ‘no’ but with which we toy and pretend is “fatal”. We flirt with it for a while, and when it gets complicated, we kill it.
    But if we kill a passionate response, we’re killing something that’s a part of us. If we let it live, the passion will become an all-consuming monster. It will kill us, gobble us up.
    If we create something that we can’t conclude, one of two things will happen: either a passion that is never meant to be intimate will become so, which can lead to tragedy, or that which is now intimate will no longer be so because we violate it.”

  197. Pingback: Relinquishing Your Rights and Accepting Victimhood | M3

  198. Lisa in Vermont

    @Donalgraeme,
    To echo what TSK said, forceful sex is something that women want.

    I would tread very carefully here. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to make broad generalizations about women’s sexual preferences, unless you have completed an evidence-based scientific study with solid conclusions.

    Personally, I prefer rougher sex and I get turned off by drawn out foreplay. I would also love it if my hubby would agree to some light bdsm and to occasional role playing with costumes. This doesn’t mean that all women are like this. In fact, based on my vast collection of Christian books about marriage and sex, I would conclude that I’m definitely an outlier.

    Most of these books contend that women need a lot of emotional coddling leading up to sex; that they prefer lots of foreplay; and that they appreciate a gentle touch. Since they’re generally written by Christian doctors or therapists, these assertions are likely based on studies or extensive interviews with women rather than the type of personal anecdotes you’ll read on blogs.

    The only way to know for certain what your spouse desires is to ask her while letting her know that you expect a candid response. This is a better approach than making assumptions based on what you’ve read on the Internet.

  199. Hannah

    Lisa in Vermont:
    “Since they’re generally written by Christian doctors or therapists, these assertions are likely based on FEMINIST LIES!!! ”
    Fixed it for you :)

  200. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    If you’re mining the frisky for info, Luke to strangle Yoda he would not.

  201. theshadowedknight

    Actually, Lisa, if you were not interested in that sort of thing, *that* would make you an outlier. Women lie about sex and preferences, and that is only about the parts of which they are aware, and more than half admit that they fantasize about ravishment. You are not in any sense unusual.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy

    I second Hannah’s comment. Those people fail to understand the Bible. How are they going to get a woman’s desires correct? Good luck.

    The Shadowed Knight

  202. donalgraeme

    @ Lisa

    Hannah might be stretching a bit, but she is certainly closer to right than wrong.

    You have been around these parts long enough to know that mainstream Christian works concerning sex and marriage should not be trusted. There is simply too much ignorance out there, and outright lies.

    Most of these books contend that women need a lot of emotional coddling leading up to sex; that they prefer lots of foreplay; and that they appreciate a gentle touch. Since they’re generally written by Christian doctors or therapists, these assertions are likely based on studies or extensive interviews with women rather than the type of personal anecdotes you’ll read on blogs.

    That first sentence is rubbish. At least, its wrong about what want. I am sure the books say those things, but the books are wrong. The truth is that many, most women don’t want to admit that they like the idea of rough sex. You are not an outlier, TSK is right that those who are not like you are the outliers. Women lie about sex all of the time, because they want to fit in with the herd; they don’t want to be seen as outliers. They think that women aren’t supposed to like that, and so they say they like sweet, gentle sex.

    Those Christian doctors and therapists are the same sorts who say things like women want their men to open up to them, to be vulnerable to them. It is Blue Pill thinking, all of it. Lies and ignorance.

    I trust the popularity of 50 Shades of Grey over the words of any “Christian doctor or therapist,” especially given their track record. The market speaks volumes here.

  203. Happyhen

    “Most of these books contend that women need a lot of emotional coddling leading up to sex; that they prefer lots of foreplay; and that they appreciate a gentle touch.”

    Most of those books I would assume were published by mainline Protestant heavy publishing houses (Thomas Nelson, Zondervan, etc) and those publishing houses would sooner shutter their doors than ruffle the feathers of the Churchian feminists in their ranks, of which there are many. I worked in that industry prior to marriage. It is not a pretty business and believe me, it’s a business first and foremost. Can you imagine the fur that would fly if a book were published by a Churchian publishing house that said women love rough sex, role play, bedroom toys, ravishment…. all women, even “spiritually superior, moral beacons of virtue and hope, perpetual virgins” that is indeed what they believe all Churchian women are.. even with research by the volume to back it up? Talk about tipping the proverbial sacred cow… so to speak.

  204. theshadowedknight

    Sent, CoRP. Let me know what you think of it. I am planning on expanding it and making a larger, comprehensive piece. Feedback is appreciated.

    The Shadowed Knight

  205. chokingonredpills

    TSK: Got it.

    happyhen: Would hell freeze over if a Red Pill man with a feminine-esque pen name publish a Christian version of 50SoG? I’d imagine it’d fly off the shelves.

  206. donalgraeme

    CoRP, I wish I had thought of that idea first. You don’t even need to create a plot out of thin air, just adopt the story of Samson and Delilah, with a few extra twists thrown in for good measure.

  207. Tricket

    Where is the alcohol education campaign?

    And solve over half the rapes going on? Nope, that would make too much sense. It’s much better to just keep implying that rape is some random problem regular men perpetrate against always innocent ladies because …. I don’t know patriarchy, right? If you don’t allow women to go out and get cross-eyed drunk without any harm befalling them, you’re an awful person.

    As for the signs concerning respect, they really bother me. Who cares if you respect women, especially if those same women don’t respect themselves? If a man disrespecting you is a sign of a rapist, then why in the world are women hanging around them so much?

    How come some 70% of women know their rapists on a non-stranger level ranging from friendly to intimately? Wouldn’t you think in these types of relationships you would instantly realize if a guy is disrespecting you and in turn recognize him as a rapist? I mean, that’s what I’m getting from those signs: A guy who disrespects you is a rapist. Am I wrong or something?

    As for being a “Vagina Warrior”…
    All I can picture now is those ladies in the vagina costumes waving around swords and wearing medieval style helmets.

  208. Ton

    Hannah, I did not read an apology, none is needed, even if you bored me. Annoyed me….. you’re a woman it’s bound to happen…..

    It is a difficult topic. I’m not a sympathetic man Hannah, but if I have any Godly quality it is wrath. I fully understand that aspect of the Almighty

    May God continue to bless you little sister

    Hannah they use men in ads like those to put up a front that feminism is decent masculine behavior. They are liars and their father is the father of lies.

  209. Farm Boy

    All I can picture now is those ladies in the vagina costumes waving around swords and wearing medieval style helmets.

    Thou who penetrates first, wins.

  210. van Rooinek

    As for being a “Vagina Warrior”…
    All I can picture now is those ladies in the vagina costumes waving around swords and wearing medieval style helmets.

    clip-clip-clop, clip-clip-clop, clip-clip-clop, clip-clip-clop, clip-clip-clop, …

    You’re using coconuts!

  211. Modern Drummer

    One night while sleeping in a hotel, I was awakened to a woman screaming “help”! I called the front desk and told them “we have a situation on the 2nd floor” and went back to sleep.
    A few years ago I would have white- knighted.. Not anymore

  212. MathGuy

    @Peter Blood

    @MathGuy “I think these ‘rapes’ as well as a significant number of actual rapes are just another expression of the mainstreaming of S&M. I think Pagilia it right; animalist and brutal sexuality is the logical endpoint of sexual freedom.”

    It was what the Marquis de Sade was all about.

    And he’s one of the people Pagilia spends time discussing for that reason (she also argues Dickenson is his female counterpart).

    @theshadowedknight

    Peter, have you perhaps missed all of the posts and comments where women discuss how erotic they find hair pulling, spanking, pounding, etc? Dominant/submissive sex is not something that women are forced into. Most women are far more towards the right of that spectrum than you might expect. Chokers have been a staple of womanly dress for a long time, and you know what those stand for, right?

    Yes, that’s somewhat the point of what I was talking about with the extensive Pagilia quote: total sexual freedom is the same as raw animal sexuality. Women may enjoy the controlled animal behavior your describe. I’m just amazed they don’t like the totally unleashed version they’ve fought to have.

    Somehow they never thought that while controlled violence is fun maybe there is a reason rules developed to limit it between people.

  213. Christina

    Are women that volatile that one second they love you and the next they imagine the entire relationship was one of rape and abuse?

    Medea. She may not have accused anyone of rape and abuse, but seriously…

    Hell hath no fury like a woman’s scorn.

  214. Farm Boy

    Are women that volatile that one second they love you and the next they imagine the entire relationship was one of rape and abuse?

    I assume that question was rhetorical.

    I challenge any fella around here to truthfully say that he has not seen that.

  215. an observer

    I assume that question was rhetorical.

    Seen enough marriages and divorces to know the answer to that. It always puzzled me, as girls were supposed to be sugar and spice.

    Seeing them spit venom, manipulate, and lie to their former beloveds helped lead to an unpleasant unblinkering.

  216. Pingback: Stuff feminists say: all non-consensual touching is sexual assault. | Sunshine Mary

  217. Pingback: Stuff feminists say: kindergarten boys who act like jerks are guilty of sexual assault. | Sunshine Mary

  218. Pingback: Fixing rape culture in three easy steps. | Sunshine Mary

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