The ugliness of extreme hypergamy.

All women are hypergamous; they will seek to be with the best possible man they can for both sex and commitment and will use that man as their gold standard from then on.  When women’s hypergamy was constrained by social sanctions against divorce, abortion, and sexual promiscuity, society functioned fairly smoothly and assortive mating, in which people of similar sexual attractiveness pair up with one another, was the name of the game.

Post-sexual revolution, hypergamy is completely unchained and we have had the opportunity to see just how virtuous women can be.  First, let’s stipulate that each woman’s hypergamy can be satisfied, and that not all women need extreme men to satisfy their hypergamy.  However, in a social context where female sexual behavior is unconstrained, you get the following scenario as a possible outcome.

J.J. Reddick is a professional basketball player in Orlando who had a brief sexual affair with a model named Vanessa Lopez.  According to Deadspin, Ms. Lopez became pregnant and quiet legal negotiations got underway.  The terms were that Ms. Lopez would abort (aka murder)  the unborn child and Mr. Reddick would pay her off.  At this point in the story, I yawned a bit.  Horrifying, but some women will murder their own children in their gold-digging fervor, and it’s not particularly unusual.

But here is where the story gets interesting; Ms. Lopez didn’t just want money.  She wanted a written contract between herself and Mr. Reddick stating that she would murder their unborn child in exchange for both money and the contractual guarantee of a social and romantic relationship between the two of them for one year!

Now that’s extreme hypergamy, friends.  Ms. Lopez is a model; she does not lack for male attention.  Yet she is not quite pretty enough to secure anything other than sex from the very top tier men in our society, which are professional athletes and rock stars.  They’ll sleep with her, but they won’t marry her or even date her for long.  Plenty of second tier men would no doubt line up to put a ring on her lovely, evil hand, but her unchained hypergamous need to be bound to the highest level man would would ever sleep with her – and yes, I would say she is also an alpha widow in addition to a gold-digging whore – causes her to prefer to a short-term contractual romantic relationship with a top tier man to a normal relationship with a second tier man.  And she’ll murder her baby to get it if she has to.

But wait, there’s more!  This isn’t the only time she’s done this!  Allegedly, this all occurred in 2007.  In 2010, she had an affair with the professional basketball player, Shaquille O’Neal, became pregnant by him, and (surprise, surprise) filed a suit against him.

Not all women are as extremely hypergamous as Vanessa Lopez.  But in this era of high divorce rates and legalized abortion, we can see the fall-out in even the lives of more ordinary people.  Social constraints on female sexual behavior did not just benefit men; such contraints also protected women and children from the worst of women’s possible behavior.

292 thoughts on “The ugliness of extreme hypergamy.

  1. Miserman

    At this point in the story, I yawned a bit. Horrifying, but some women will murder their own children in their gold-digging fervor, and it’s not particularly unusual.

    This is sickening, no matter how many times I read similar cases. I may be laid back in most areas of life but when it comes to marriage and children, I continue to be personally struck at the heartless and cruel manner I witness in women.

    Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful. – Romans 1:31

  2. Farm Boy

    To much power, too young. Never had to work for anything.

    It used to not be this way.

    If women were like guys, where “good enough” is good enough, how would the world be different?

  3. Farm Boy

    The ugliness of extreme hypergamy.

    Actually, regular garden variety hypergamy can be ugly also. There is no need to leave oneself open to accusations of applying the apex fallacy.

  4. Farm Boy

    the contractual guarantee of a social and romantic relationship between the two of them for one year!

    If one can define their own contracts with respect to romantic relationships, then why not do so for marriage?

  5. Je Suis Prest

    Wow, that made me so sad. While aborting for convenience is in many cases about the money, something about the way this “woman” is doing it just seems so much more calloused. At any rate, she does seem to have a type… I just don’t understand how she would think a relationship like that could work. You’re essentially blackmailing a guy to date you and expecting him to feel affection after that? Wouldn’t that kill any belief in loyalty and respect that the man would need to love her?

  6. earl

    “If one can define their own contracts with respect to romantic relationships, then why not do so for marriage?”

    Marriage is part of the “Evil Patriarchy™”

  7. deti

    I know this thread isn’t even about this, but I would have serious questions about whether a “contract” like this could even be legally enforced. One argument is that both sides are contracting for legal (though horrific) ends, so enforcement could be had.

    But on the other hand, how callous, cold and calculating do you have to be to contract for an abortion? Think about it: The entire point of a contract is that it can be legally enforced. What is Reddick going to do if she won’t get the abortion? Sue her for an emergency injunction and force her to go through the procedure (i.e. specific performance)? Sue her to get his money back or for damages (your usual remedy for breach of contract)?

    Grisly and gruesome.

  8. deti

    And yet it’s funny. The only part of a marriage contract that CANNOT be legally enforced is the man’s side. If one of them wants to break the contract, they don’t go to a court of law to dissolve it, they go to a court of equity which decides what is “fair”.

    So, the marriage contract isn’t really a contract at all; it’s more like at will employment. One of you can end the relationship at any time for any reason. You made a deal, you made an agreement, but, well, not really. You remain together as long as it serves both your interests. Equities are decided not at the time you made the contract; but at the time of dissolution.

  9. DJ

    Not to be troll like but the The Art of Courtly Love By Andreas Capellanus (1174) link that u posted sounds like its describing the current manospeher. I theorize that when a group or individual feels socially unsafe they act in the way the essay describes as a defensive. mechanism. From the time period I would also like to point out that women of that time 1174 A.D. where in a more insecure place then men are now, because of food sacrcity and warfare…etc

  10. jack

    I look forward to judgment day. It will be pleasing to watch these kind of people have their sins directly addressed by a righteous God, and there will be no way for them to reply, rebut, or snark their way out of it.

    I love the idea of watching a proud soul get stripped bare and humiliated by righteous judgment.

  11. earl

    “I look forward to judgment day. It will be pleasing to watch these kind of people have their sins directly addressed by a righteous God, and there will be no way for them to reply, rebut, or snark their way out of it.

    I love the idea of watching a proud soul get stripped bare and humiliated by righteous judgment.”

    Careful jack…with that attitude you might be one of them.

  12. Farm Boy

    an alpha widow in addition to a gold-digging whore

    I am coming to have more respect for regular whores everyday, as they deliver agreed to services for a given price. No duplicity, as with “normal” women.

  13. Elspeth

    Yet she is not quite pretty enough to secure anything other than sex from the very top tier men in our society, which are professional athletes and rock stars.

    No, Sunshine. It’s not that she isn’t pretty enough. to secure a commitment from a top tier man. We’ve also seen rich, powerful men married to women who are not supermodel gorgeous. She’s pretty enough; she’s just not virtuous enough. It’s not her looks that these men are rejecting. It’s her slutty track record.

  14. Farm Boy

    had an affair with the professional basketball player, Shaquille O’Neal

    I wonder how the mechanics of intercourse with Shaq would work…

  15. Farm Boy

    Susan Walsh seems to think so.

    Susan Walsh thinks lots of things. Maybe sometimes they are moral and correct.

    As for gorgeous chicks, all she is supposed to need is one.

  16. rmaxgenactivepua

    Hypergamy is only dangerous relative to the worth of most men

    It’s only when men are denied opportunity to be successful & marry freely, hypergamy is unable to satisfy most women

    Give most men opportunity & fair marriage laws, & hypergamy & unmarried women unable to satisfy their need for social dominance, as laws which give women privilege, destroys their ability to satisfy their hypergamy …

    Increase the social networth of men, & hypergamy disappears

    The main reason women divorce, isnt because of hypergamy …

    Hypergamy is secondary for the need of alpha behaviour, or dominance

    Hypergamy is always measured in terms of social dominance, if a woman isnt able to experience social dominance through her hypergamy she reverts to alpha’s

    The problem with buying women with wealth, ie trophy wives, hypergamy becomes normalised far too quickly for most women, they get accustomed to wealth, essentially they grow bored with wealth

    As women have no long term ability, & dont understand cause & effect, to actually appreciate wealth in the first place …

    Once women satisfy their need for hypergamy, they revert to a need for dominance

    This is WHY its important for women to be submissive to their husbands ….

    Once the hypergamy runs out … their need to be dominated takes over

    Women who rely on the alphaness of a mans wallet, are living on borrowed time

  17. Farm Boy

    If men really understood hypergamy and all of its implications, it would be the number one most hated word in their vocabularies.

  18. Dr. Faust

    Women can get away with climbing the sexual/social ladder because men put up with it.

    I have a general dislike of our culture and way of life and I believe it poisons men’s souls. Women as well. I think most of these social problems would be alleviated if we returned to nature and realized technology hasn’t saved us yet and isn’t likely to in the future.

  19. Lisa in Vermont

    @Earl,

    Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading the Art of Courtly Love in one of my comparative literature courses in college. Great story and still rings true so many centuries later.

  20. alcestiseshtemoa

    According to a news article, J.J. Redick said Vanessa Lopez never ended a pregnancy of a child fathered by him (Vanessa Lopez is currently linked to some NBA Stars). Still, if it was true, murdering a baby just for this? Vanessa Lopez doesn’t seem to be a good woman.

    Also, I’ve lately been thinking that maybe some female actresses (not all of them of course) tend to be better than some female models when it comes to character (and I don’t mean just acting and faking it). The fields tend to be somewhat different.

  21. Rollo Tomassi

    From Professional Mothers:
    http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/06/professional-mothers/

    Flush it

    In 2002 the NBA issued a highly controversial and publicized warning to professional basketball players stating that players be advised to wear condoms when having sexual intercourse with women when on road games and to “flush the condom down the toilet” in order to dispose of the semen. This warning was the result of several paternity suits that year involving women these players had slept with by retrieving the condoms from the trash and ‘self-impregnanting’ themselves with the players semen. The NBA had enough occurrences of this kind to warrant a league-wide warning that year. All of these players are now 100% liable for the welfare of these children and their former partners by default because there are no laws protecting men from fraudulent pregnancies.

  22. Guest

    Sounds like what the guy is doing is pretty evil, too. But I forgot this blog is dedicated to criticizing women, not to fairness and objectivity and truth.

  23. Looking Glass

    @Farm Boy:

    After my time in the manosphere, I’ve also come to have a bit more respect for whores. I’d rather prefer to interact (non-sexual, obviously) with an honest whore rather than a dishonest slut. The emotional damage to them is about the same, but at least there’s a bit more honesty & business savvy to deal with.

    @Dr. Faust:

    There’s some backup. We also saw from the OkCupid data graphs that guys rated Women on a near perfect Bell Curve. But the contacts were highest total for 8’s, with 9’s & 10’s being proportionally & significantly lower. So the really, really good looking ones get approached a whole lot less than the gals 1-4 SMV ranks below them. Ignoring the fact that due to their SMV rank, they won’t really respond to most approaches, so they get less than their peer group & less functional approaches.

    @Rollo:

    “Baby Mama” is the 2nd most expensive thing, after Uncle Sam, for a Pro Basketball player. Should probably tell us all we need to know.

  24. Scott

    “I think most of these social problems would be alleviated if we returned to nature and realized technology hasn’t saved us yet and isn’t likely to in the future.”

    Good point. There is no evidence to suggest that moral progress is inevitable nor correlated with scientific advancement. The most technologically advanced society on the planet in 1939 was Nazi Germany.

  25. Farm Boy

    There is no evidence to suggest that moral progress is inevitable nor correlated with scientific advancement.

    Scientific advancement and the wealth it creates allows us to have the luxury of poor morals.

    Perhaps we should have a luxury tax.

  26. van Rooinek

    In 2002 the NBA issued a highly controversial and publicized warning to professional basketball players stating that players be advised to wear condoms when having sexual intercourse with women when on road games and to “flush the condom down the toilet” in order to dispose of the semen. This warning was the result of several paternity suits that year involving women these players had slept with by retrieving the condoms from the trash and ‘self-impregnanting’ themselves with the players semen

    Tom Leykis recommends that men carry habanero sauce (approx. 100x the scoville rating of japaleno…. very, very hot). After removing the condom, put some habanero sauce into it before throwing it away. One caller asserted that he’d done this…. and a few minutes later heard the girl shrieking in pain in the bathroom, as she’d retrieved the condom and tried to self-inseminate. It was so bad she had to go to the emergency room. Mucus membranes are very vulnerable..

    As I’ve never been promiscuous and never used a condom, I’ve no occasion for this trick. But it’s pretty darned funny.

  27. van Rooinek

    Scientific advancement and the wealth it creates allows us to have the luxury of poor morals.
    Perhaps we should have a luxury tax.

    Tax out-of-wedlock childbearing, and tax divorce if there are kids involved. Nearly all our social problems are made vastly larger and more intractable by fatherlessness.

    For the OOW parents who have no assets, extract the tax in labor. Let ‘em clean roadsides or wash graffiti.

  28. van Rooinek

    That’s it. Tax divorce. Forfeit 35% of the community property to the state.

    I’ve just solved California’s budget crisis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. earl

    “Tax out-of-wedlock childbearing, and tax divorce if there are kids involved. Nearly all our social problems are made vastly larger and more intractable by fatherlessness.”

    Also tax the gluttonous…for they are the reason health care costs are so high.

  30. Just Saying

    Every now and then, I think that I have gone too far when it comes to women. Usually when one is crying and obviously distraught over being told to “take a hike” or otherwise being cut loose because I’m tired of her. Since they are young, it’s probably some paternalistic instinct confused with lust and everything else. But anyway – then I read something like this and I realize that nothing I do in life, no matter how evil I may think it is, comes close to what women do every day of the week. How many lives have they destroyed all in their search.

    Usually, I just look at some of the things I’ve done with women – how they will pretend to be the sweet young thing to get some schmoe to put a ring on their finger, while I’m banging them out every night, or the married woman that gets off raw-dogging it with me because she hates how beta her husband is.

    Of course, I enjoy using women – but I never make the mistake of actually liking them. They are a convenience – like a toilet – to be used. I’m sure that there are “good women” out there – but I am up front in telling women how I am, so those can go the other direction – if they stay, then I know they deserve everything they get.

    But to destroy a child – to murder an innocent for money, makes anything I will EVER do, seem like child’s play. After all, I may hurt feelings, but I never participate in dismembering a living child while he or she silently screams in the one place he should be safe. The thing the convinces me there is no God, is the covering of true evil. And this women is true evil, she should look as hideous on the outside as she is on the inside… But it is women like her, that show me that I can feel good about myself – since all I ever do is give women what they want, and in many cases what they deserve as well…

    [ssm: According the news article linked in my OP, Ms. Lopez was 16 or 17 weeks pregnant (in the second trimester) at the time of the abortion. Here is an ultrasound of a baby that is 16 weeks 6 days old inside his mother:

    I ask readers to stop whatever they are doing at this very moment and pray. Get on your knees if you are in a place where you are able to do so. Call on the name of the Lord, beseech Him to do whatever is necessary to end the pre-birth murder of babies.]

  31. alcestiseshtemoa

    Scientific advancement and the wealth it creates allows us to have the luxury of poor morals.

    Perhaps we should have a luxury tax.

    Great insight, Farm Boy.

  32. earl

    “One caller asserted that he’d done this…. and a few minutes later heard the girl shrieking in pain in the bathroom, as she’d retrieved the condom and tried to self-inseminate.”

    That’ll teach her for having the Tabasco tingles.

  33. earl

    “The thing the convinces me there is no God, is the covering of true evil.”

    Wrong guy to blame.

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.

  34. donalgraeme

    @ vR

    Wouldn’t work in CA. While the Golden State (what a joke that is these days) is a Community Property Jurisdiction, with Equal Distribution during divorce, I am sure that through the use of Child Support the loss of assets to women by this tax could be compensated for by impositions on the man. The FI will not be denied.

  35. Dr. Faust

    Good point. There is no evidence to suggest that moral progress is inevitable nor correlated with scientific advancement. The most technologically advanced society on the planet in 1939 was Nazi Germany.

    There may be an inverse correlation with moral agency and technological advance. The past didn’t have democracy which politicizes EVERYONE who still assumes their vote matters. Politics makes people miserable. At least it does for me and I’ve considered giving up any political theory in favor of spiritual development.

    If you take the vote away from everyone then no one will care about issues or politics. They’ll focus on themselves and their own lives which is why I believe people outside of a democracy would be happier. The games of power are sickening. It’s like the ring of power from the Lord of the Rings. The more you wield it the more you want to wield and sicker it makes you. Not even the noble hobbits were immune to the corruption of the ring of power.

    The past didn’t have social media nor all of the connective communication devices that we do today. The positive is that there is a growing movement of disdain for the current political and social climate. While the voices on the left, right, and center are divergent on the aims of a successful society they are united in their general enmity of the current status quo and are eager for change. Real change and not the BS Obama change.

    The vision I have for the future is humility. One of diversity of thought and coexistence of various ideologies. I begin with humility. I am not God and I do not know what’s best for everyone. I know only what I want, if that. I can decide for myself. I control my own life and have no need for power over others. But to bring that about diversity of thought there must first be an end to universalism. The idea of big government must be put to rest.

    There are two models I believe will be successful. The first is the city-state model where autonomous states may govern themselves as they wish. This is similar to the United States prior to the tyrant Abraham Lincoln imposing his universalist thought onto everyone. But these city-states would not be limited to 50 or any other arbitrary number. It would allow for states to grow and govern as they see fit. A christian state could be born, a theocratic christian state run under the principles of the bible, so long as it agreed to exist peacefully next to other autonomous states. This breeds independence to people and true diversity. Diversity of lifestyle where the Christian would not fear a secularized media and school system. It would have no need to brainwash children or force them to conform to its ideas of equality and secular thought.

    The left could have their paradise. They could have their free and just world without gender or race or religion. But they never want that because there spirit is that of a parasite latched onto the greater beast.

    We only need to look to the internet to see the future. The groups that form along various websites are similar to the pairings of the city-states that would form. The homosexuals could have their own state. Let them. The catholics and the muslims could form theirs as well. And any other who would choose to do such a thing. The internet communities that we see could very well be the models of future societies.

    We are fortunate to live in these times as we may see this come about. The government has spent beyond its means. The trillions in unfunded liabilities can never be paid which means a downsizing, which means they’ll lose power. Hopefully, the angst of the populace will not allow them to regrow back to their former state.

    Certain technologies such as 3D printing will redistribute the population away from cities. We can see the growth of universalist thought along with the growth of the city. People forced to live in close proximity to each other must conform to a certain rigidity of thought in order for it to function. But as the industrial world collapses because of a decentralization of industry in the form of 3D printing then it’s likely the same will trigger an exodus from the universalist city.

    It is need which defines us. People need food and they need jobs. When the jobs are all in the cities then the people will all be in the cities. When the jobs are decentralized then the people will not be there. Most people do not like most people.

  36. Dr. Faust

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God.

  37. earl

    “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God.”

    A lot of people don’t believe God exists…so hence my first statement still is true.

  38. alcestiseshtemoa

    OT:

    A rhetorical point and indeed a retraction from a while back about what I wrote on the blog I deleted. Mexican mestiza middle-class women aren’t ugly. Their underclass Amerindian sisters are.

    By sheer population they (Mexicans) have more Amerindians, but not by percentages. It’s just that they have a bigger population. By sheer percentages, Peru (30 million, 46% Amerindian, South America), Bolivia (10 million, 55% Amerindian, South America) and Guatemala (13 million, 53% Amerindian, Central America), it’s just that their populations are so small, as to not be noticeable.

    How about that. I have come to the conclusion that Mexican women are prettier, speak better Spanish (along with their Catholic religion) and are higher in SES, since around 80% of them are mestizas.

    Anyhow, go back to topic. Don’t mind me.

  39. taylor

    Elspeth said:
    “She’s pretty enough; she’s just not virtuous enough. It’s not her looks that these men are rejecting. It’s her slutty track record.”

    That was my thought as well. Or perhaps she is a slutty idiot with a crap personality.

  40. Dr. Faust

    A lot of people don’t believe God exists…so hence my first statement still is true

    Certain gnostic and luciferians believe the bible is the book of Satan. That most of what God says is the word of Satan. They use the examples of Abraham and if God condones child sacrifice how could he be good? Did he love Isaac the same as Abraham?

    God is jealous. Not exactly a trait of virtue. What could the almighty be jealous of except something greater than he? If something is greater than the God of the bible then he must not be the almighty. If he claims to be a God of love and yet never practices anything loving then he must not be good. He would be a deceiver and a liar. If the God of the bible is neither good nor almighty then he is likely Satan, 2nd in command and ruler of this world who demands worship of him to fulfill his ego and satisfy his jealous rage.

  41. alcestiseshtemoa

    Vanessa Lopez seems like a slightly above average woman (like a 6.5) who was placed in a 2nd tier system by luck, near the 1st tier types. She’s not in the 7-10 SMV/MMV category by default (e.g. Mexican-American actress Salma Hayek, who married a French billionaire). She also likes contracts (lawyering stuff) and that shows a bit of a character flaw. It isn’t by mistake that some law codes and jobs are seen badly in the USA.

  42. alcestiseshtemoa

    Examples of famous train wrecks: Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Kim Kardashian, etc.

  43. sunshinemary Post author

    this isn’t about abortion

    Actually, it is indirectly about abortion. Without artificial birth control, abortion, no-fault divorce laws, welfare, and child support laws for both legitimate and illegitimate children, the sexual revolution which is directly responsible for the unchaining of female hypergamy could never have happened.

  44. sunshinemary Post author

    Congratulations to Kate and Mark Minter on their engagement. CH is trumpeting his own horn as if no else had ever been responsible for the engagement of two readers. :) Someone go tell him I did it first. /heheheh

  45. Farm Boy

    Call on the name of the Lord, beseech Him to do whatever is necessary to end the pre-birth murder of babies

    Furthermore, consider the babies that are not born because modern women’s feral nature either messes up marriages, or causes them not to happen at all.

  46. van Rooinek

    SSM: Congratulations to Kate and Mark Minter on their engagement. CH is trumpeting his own horn as if no else had ever been responsible for the engagement of two readers. :) Someone go tell him I did it first. /heheheh

    Go see the other thread, SSM — JSP and Fuzzie are swapping pictures. Fuzz better move FAST though, because JSP won’t be on the market much longer..

  47. Bob Wallace

    “All women are hypergamous”

    A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same time. This is one of the many contradictions in the Manosphere. Of course, now I will encounter all sort of rationalizations as to why they can both at the same time. Most especially they will try to use Evo-Psych, which can be used to explain everything, which means it explains nothing, like the word “patriarchy,” “racism,” “sexism,” are used to explain everything, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    I know a woman who is attracted to loser Bad Boys. She suffers from Hybristophilia, and she hates herself for it.

  48. Farm Boy

    JSP and Fuzzie

    In the coming times, having a bear for protection purposes might be a wise idea.

  49. rmaxgenactivepua

    @SSM

    Hmm, women have always had the ability to abortion, its not something new or unique to our century

    The decreased welfare from not having a child, also doesnt explain the extreme levels of hypergamy present today

    Hypergamy only comes into play when, the relative poverty levels of men decrease to unsustainability, while the welfare of women remains steady

    The rise of the industrial age saw marriage rise to over 92% in the U.K & the U.S

    While feminism was a planned & orchestrated conspiracy

    It was the bankers & the recession, who really created the divorce industry

    As the networth of most men fell, women began to demand divorce & abortions, as they jumped the ship of men

    Women will always abandon men, at any sign of weakness, womens hatred of all forms of weakness is legendary

    To the point of murdering millions of their own unborn innocents … sick

  50. Farm Boy

    A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same time

    Oh yes they can. The bad boy losers can easily peg the tingle meter because of their dominance, which normally stems from at least a hint of violence.

    Remember Farm Boy’s Law: Tingles Trumps Provisioning

    Does anybody really expect rational behavior from hypergamy in this modern world?

  51. van Rooinek

    :A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same time

    Status is context dependent — it’s totally different in a corporate boardroom, a biker gang, a church, a tribe of mammoth hunters.

    The bad boy simply telegraphs a different type of status: raw physical aggression. This doesn’t violate hypergamy at all, it fact it’s probably the oldest form of hypergamy.

  52. Rollo Tomassi

    SSM, I understand your position, but this goes beyond garden variety abortion into the realm of gender specific legalized extortion. It’s like a buy-now or pay later interest incentive.

  53. Martel

    @ Farm Boy: “It is almost as if “getting pregnant” was being used as a high leverage tool…”

    My paternity idea would end that in a New York minute, and even red pill women seem resistant to it.

    https://alphaisassumed.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/your-body-your-baby-part-1/

    Part I deals mainly with cuckoldry, but the idea would rectify professional motherhood just as easily. Part II is where I’ll be dealing with the harpies like Lopez.

    Which means that as long as women have the vote it will never happen, but….

  54. Farm Boy

    Perhaps in the future there will be “hypergamybots” to satisfy the chicks. I wonder what they will be like…

  55. Sharrukin

    Bob Wallace July 26, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same time.

    And what is your explanation for why chasing bad boys is so common? Are they all insane?

  56. freebird

    ” First, let’s stipulate that each woman’s hypergamy can be satisfied.”

    Why sure it can,until something better or more interesting comes along.

  57. Elspeth

    @ Taylor:

    Thank you for acknowledging the profundity of my comment, LOL. As I read that particular part of Sunshine’s post, most of which I heartily agree with, I took a mental note of the wives of NBA stars I’ve seen over the years. I’ve been a huge basketball fan since I was a little girl (being raised in a house full of males makes for a sports fan) so I’ve seen more than a few.

    Very few of them are significantly more attractive than Lopez, even the wives of the big stars like Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, or Magic Johnson. But I guarantee you none of their wives had a reputation for being a whore or worse.

    So like I said: It’s not that she wasn’t quite pretty enough. It’s that she wasn’t virtuous enough.

  58. theshadowedknight

    Bob, their hypergamy is focused on masculine strength. Strength of body, strength of mind, strength of will; the goal is safety, and strength equals safety to women. Domination of their environment.

    The Shadowed Knight

  59. Carlotta

    I have a problem with this being seen as a case of hypergamy run amuck. It would appear more the business wheelings and dealings of a whore. One willing to murder to be promoted.
    Cue those screaming not to judge in 5, 4, 3

  60. Elspeth

    Strength of body, strength of mind, strength of will; the goal is safety, and strength equals safety to women. Domination of their environment.

    This is 100% correct, particularly now that so few women need to depend on a man for provision. They can afford to scratch their itch for swagger in a way that was impractical and foolish for previous generations of women.

  61. Carlotta

    To those who dont get it…she isnt forcing him into an actual relationship. She is contractually trading 18 years of child support for entre into rarified social circles and the chance of snagging larger game. Hence Shack.

    Looks like she got it.

  62. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    “JSP and Fuzzie. In the coming times, having a bear for protection purposes might be a wise idea.”
    It makes me a little sad to burst your bubble, but , in real life, I’m a human. However, it’s fun being a bear on the internet.

    Bob Wallace,
    Keep them coming! Fundamentals should be questioned, how else to ensure validity?

    Guest,
    Valid point. As someone said after the housing crash, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

    About the original post, Elspeth is right. This woman has some very serious character flaws that would preclude a relationship. To begin with, she is a conniving manipulator who doesn’t care that all women end up suffering for her perfidy.

    Earl,
    That link to delicioustacos about Ok Cupid made me mad. 100 messages a day? Talk about fostering an abundance mentality. That’s the problem with internet dating, when the girls won’t talk, the guys send out messeges in a shotgun pattern and it increases geometrically.

  63. M3

    Wow. Needing a contract to hold a man legally for dating..

    .. now that’s the most dismal failure of womanhood i have ever seen.

  64. Christina

    “So the really, really good looking ones get approached a whole lot less than the gals 1-4 SMV ranks below them. Ignoring the fact that due to their SMV rank, they won’t really respond to most approaches, so they get less than their peer group & less functional approaches.”

    The long way of saying 9s and 10s don’t get as much attention is because they are snobby, elitist, bitches?

  65. FuzzieWuzzie

    Christina,
    You may have exactly backwards. High ranking women are getting the short end of the stick in this sexual/marriage marketplace. Their rank peers are approaching down and they are being overlooked.
    I used to watch a lot of CNBC. Years ago, Bar Rafeli was interviewed on the floor of the NYSE by Bob Pisani. While comfortable interviewing captains of industry, he fell apart talking to a supermodel. She took his hands in hers and brought him down to earth. I wonder if they ever saw each other again?
    Truly apex females are less inclined to be snobby and elitist.

  66. Farm Boy

    Are they all insane?

    Is hypergamy rational?

    Besides, the government (and taxpayers) clean up the mess. So, in a sense it is rational. Tingles and Taxes.

  67. Martel

    Regarding abortion, watch it and weep:

    http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=50257

    Although I like the solution the blogger writes after the video.

    And regarding women dating losers:

    “Crack dealers tend to approach me. I’m not chasing them down. It’s not like I ever said to myself, “I’m going to date crack dealers now!” But when you meet one, you meet a lot of others. And then you just start dating.”

    http://www.vice.com/read/i-have-dated-several-crack-dealers

  68. Farm Boy

    Needing a contract to hold a man legally for dating

    I wonder if it is stated who will pick up the restaraunt check…

  69. Farm Boy

    now that’s the most dismal failure of womanhood i have ever seen.

    With the wide selection that modern women provide, that is really saying something.

  70. Sharrukin

    Farm Boy July 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Are they all insane?

    Is hypergamy rational?

    Not under current conditions, no.

    However Bob Wallace is claiming hypergamy doesn’t exist, so he is the one who should explain why chasing bad boys is so common.

  71. Farm Boy

    It makes me a little sad to burst your bubble, but , in real life, I’m a human

    Maybe you an example of Al Gore’s Man-bear-pig.

  72. Anonymoose

    SSM wrote: “All women are hypergamous; they will seek to be with the best possible man they can for both sex and commitment …”

    And then Bob Wallace wrote: “A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same …” [And then he wrote more stuff that was not relevant.]

    Really, Bullshit Bob?!?

    A woman will seek to be with the best possible man, according to her judgement or evolutionary wiring or tingles or whatever. Notice that we are talking about HER attraction filters.

    All that you are saying is that her attraction filters and value judgements do not match yours, but that does not contradict what SSM wrote.

    By the way, this is not “one of the many contradictions in the Manosphere”, since the Manosphere has been saying, from the beginning, that women’s choices are not conducive to the building or advancement of civilization.

    Women are attracted to certain character traits, and these traits are expressed on a continuum. And the smaller the number of restraints that exist inside (such as her nature, character and intellect) and outside (such as the patriarchy) of a woman, the more she may tend to gravitate toward the extreme end of that continuum.

    But notice that an extreme expression of these traits does not imply an extreme presence of these traits. For example, Ton is one of the good guys (with honor, principles, intelligence and self-control), but he is still extraordinarily more fearsome than any of the violent but weak and shallow trash that women mistake for something more.

    But this is nothing new, and it has been discussed many times on various blogs. Perhaps you, Bob, have just stumbled upon this, but it is common knowledge to many, and fixating upon it as some sort of a revelation makes you look foolish, at best. Or do you just like finding reasons to repeat the word “hybristophilia”?

  73. theshadowedknight

    Seriously, what man is going to marry a woman who will murder your children for her advantage? A tiny little spark of long term thought and the plan falls apart. No man wants to worry if his woman is planning the deaths of his young, and if she is willing to kill a child, what chance do you have? Have to sleep eventually. No loyalty to kin, and what deeper loyalty could there be?

    The Shadowed Knight

  74. Farm Boy

    The terms were that Ms. Lopez would abort (aka murder)  the unborn child

    Hypergamy is ostensibly about future children. Yet it becomes so powerful that women destroy their children to feed it.

  75. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    “Hypergamy is ostensibly about future children. Yet it becomes so powerful that women destroy their children to feed it.”
    Hypergamy sounds an awful lot like greed. Unchecked greed has led a lot of people to do some terrible things. Don’t we call that evil?

  76. Je Suis Prest

    @ Christina

    I think a lot of it could down to men having a preference for women who they perceive to be a sure thing over women who might turn them down. Until I read about approach anxiety over at MMSL I didn’t understand why the guys at work rarely went for the hottest girls IRL.

  77. deti

    “SSM wrote: “All women are hypergamous; they will seek to be with the best possible man they can for both sex and commitment …”

    “And then Bob Wallace wrote: “A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same …”

    Really, Bullshit Bob?!?

    Bob Wallace is talking about an SMP and MMP that last existed sometime around 1960. This was when what we now call “alpha” (Jersey Shore guidos, rock stars and professional athletes) were omegas; and ordinary Joe Sixpack betas were in fact “alphas”. Bob touts the cardinal virtues as hallmarks of the real man, the “true” alpha. Prudence, Justice, Temperance, and Courage.

    Those are in fact markers of good, honorable men. And those men were usually destined for success, or at least able to marry. Of course, that SMP and MMP no longer exists That old SMP/MMP valued those traits in men for marriage and families. Be that as it may, those traits are not “sexy” or attractive, and so they no longer carry any weight with women when it comes to securing sex or marriage.

  78. Sharrukin

    FuzzieWuzzie July 26, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Hypergamy sounds an awful lot like greed. Unchecked greed has led a lot of people to do some terrible things. Don’t we call that evil?

    Some rather well-to-do men have been jettisoned for drug dealers and penniless musicians. It’s more than just greed.

  79. Elspeth

    Be that as it may, those traits are not “sexy” or attractive, and so they no longer carry any weight with women when it comes to securing sex or marriage.

    Since you and I are already arguing today, LOL: What you mean is that those traits are not attractive to the vast majority of women. I’ll grant you the “sexy” part, but women used to not choose their men on that basis. At least not first and foremost.

  80. sunshinemary Post author

    Prudence, Justice, Temperance, and Courage…they no longer carry any weight with women when it comes to securing sex or marriage.

    For some women, these no longer carry any weight for sex or marriage. For other women, they do factor into the marriage selection process. I am not sure if such traits produce sexual attraction or not; they might if they somehow improve his LAMPS. But not all women choose a man solely based on his sexual attractiveness, though there does have to be some attraction if the marriage is going to be a satisfying one.

    Do readers think sexual attraction/LAMPS are the only factors that satisfy hypergamy? Would a very courageous or very just man satisfy a woman’s hypergamy? I’m uncertain.

  81. earl

    Hypergamy is just another term for mental insanity. Men have it too…but half as much as women.

    Honestly…there is no person, no amount of money, no amount of stuff, no amount of feelings, no amount of mind blowing sex that will ever bring total satisfaction. To be in constant pursuit of something better that you will never attain in this world is just madness to me. Why not be honest and admit you need God more than anything?

    That’s why I’m trying to go on the route to Heaven…so that I can have a sane mind and achieve the highest thing you can ever achieve..

  82. Farm Boy

    I’ll grant you the “sexy” part, but women used to not choose their men on that basis

    That was when they did not have the government to backstop their immoral decisions.

  83. Farm Boy

    Hypergamy is just another term for mental insanity

    Actually, it is more of a specific type of insanity.

    It is just maladapted to the modern world.

  84. Farm Boy

    Why not be honest and admit you need God more than anything?

    This is a first world problem; it is not intrinsic.

  85. alcestiseshtemoa

    To this day, I don’t understand how a Christian (not Churchian) nice beta white guy is a loser. Beats me. Also, this was pointed out on another thread a long time ago but it’s more than “alpha vs. beta”. The blogger Vox Day has a more realistic hierarchy (e.g. alpha, beta, delta, gamma, omega, sigma and lambda), though it focuses too much on sexual attractiveness in some aspects and not enough on the LAMPS stuff.

  86. Farm Boy

    I don’t understand how a Christian (not Churchian) nice beta white guy is a loser

    Tingles trump provisioning (and morality)

  87. Anonymoose

    Deti,

    All that I have to go on is what he wrote here, and that includes none of what you wrote. Bob reminds me of a cheap psychic who says “I sense water”, and then the innocent mark fills in everything else, but gives credit for it to the charlatan.

    On a different topic,

    “Truly apex females are less inclined to be snobby and elitist.”

    How a woman feels about herself, fundamentally, has a significant effect on her relationships, and it tends not to change.

    A truly apex female knows that everyone finds her attractive, so she considers it quite natural for lower SMV men to find her attractive also, and being gracious to everyone can only increase her standing.

    A woman who thinks of herself as mediocre is terrified of being approached by men of lower SMV than her fantasy alpha, because she fears that this will cause him to realize that she is not an apex female. Consequently, she is almost violently inconsiderate and unkind with her rejections, but she is not fooling anyone.

    If you are looking for a diamond in the rough, pay attention to the less-than-apex females who are gracious to everyone.

  88. deti

    “What you mean is that those traits are not attractive to the vast majority of women. I’ll grant you the “sexy” part, but women used to not choose their men on that basis. At least not first and foremost.”

    USED TO. That’s the rub, isn’t it, Elspeth? We live in the SMP/MMP we have, not the one we wish we had or the one that we used to have.

    “For some women, these no longer carry any weight for sex or marriage. For other women, they do factor into the marriage selection process. I am not sure if such traits produce sexual attraction or not; they might if they somehow improve his LAMPS”

    Yes, prudence, justice, temperance and courage factor into the marriage process for some women. Many of those women invariably become unhaaaappy because their husbands are boring, predictable and safe; not attractive, fun and exciting.

    The only factor that might improve LAMPS is Courage, which roughly translates to confidence.

  89. deti

    “Do readers think sexual attraction/LAMPS are the only factors that satisfy hypergamy?”

    If we’re talking about most women’s sexual behavior until they reach about age 28, yes. If we’re talking about women who are looking for marriage, no. Women seeking marriage want men who have the desirable/comfort traits as well as the attraction traits.

    “Would a very courageous or very just man satisfy a woman’s hypergamy?”

    Since courage roughly translates to confidence, that goes a long way toward satisfying hypergamy. A “very just” man won’t come close to satisfying hypergamy.

    Prudence, justice and temperance are virtues that suggest gentleness, restraint, and fairness. Women just don’t find those traits viscerally attractive, at least not in my experience. In fact, these traits actively repulse younger women I’ve known.

  90. FuzzieWuzzie

    SSM,
    “Would a very just or courageous man satisfy a woman’s hypergamy?”
    In the current marketplace, feminism has had great success in demonizing men and minimizing masculine virtue. How many heroes do you see nowadays?
    To directly answer your question, is a limited yes. First, he has to pass her initial filter. Second, she has to be discerning enough to know virtue when she sees it. It can happen, but the opportunities to demonstrate these qualities don’t come along too often. Consider it an enhancement to initial attraction.

  91. Elspeth

    <i.Yes, prudence, justice, temperance and courage factor into the marriage process for some women. Many of those women invariably become unhaaaappy because their husbands are boring, predictable and safe; not attractive, fun and exciting.

    Hmph. If you say so, though I’m not inclined to agree. However, given that I am basing my disagreement on a sample size of one man, I could be completely wrong.

  92. deti

    Where are these women that SSM and Elspeth are talking about, who value prudence, justice, temperance and courage? Of what women do you speak? And where might single men, including my son one day, find them?

    [ssm: Well, three of them have been on my site recently: allamagoosa, Je Suis Prest, and alcestiseshtemoa. They value those things, in addition to some of the LAMPS/attraction cues. And I have found courage very attractive in my husband when I have observed him doing something that I thought was courageous.]

  93. Ton

    I’ve dated a number of tier one girl’s. Why? I asked. Girls date the men who ask, men date the girls who say “yes” ( to the date. Get your minds out of the gutter)

    Someone else called lincoln a tyrant? Awesome

    Women and courage…. yep it attracts them, but it’s not the kind of courage you’re thinkin off. Are chicks “impressed” with my medals? Nope. Are they “impressed” I carry a gun into places I shouldn’t, don’t wear a helmet on my bike, and have a moonshine still? Yep.

  94. Ton

    On abortion: one of the reasons I feel no compunction to follow the law is any government that allows the murder of the unborn is illegitimate and unworthy of authority over man.

  95. Horace

    “(Redick’s partial denial yesterday only claimed that Lopez “has never been pregnant with a child fathered by me” and “has never terminated a pregnancy of a child fathered by me.”)

    In exchange for proof that she had gotten an abortion, Redick would have to “maintain a social and/or dating relationship” for one year. Otherwise, Redick would pay Lopez $25,000.”

    Yanno, it sounds like she was pregnant with someone else’s child and aborted the baby so that she could be with Redick. What a cold, cruel woman.

  96. Dr. Faust

    That’s why I’m trying to go on the route to Heaven…so that I can have a sane mind and achieve the highest thing you can ever achieve..

    See earl, we agree on so much. Why haven’t you gone off to be a monk. It sounds like your calling. I’ve thought of doing it myself. Do you have any info on what it’s like?

  97. earl

    “To this day, I don’t understand how a Christian (not Churchian) nice beta white guy is a loser.”

    Didn’t you hear…sex is the be all and end all determination of masculinity. If you aren’t having it and bragging about it to your buddies on blog forums you are a loser.

    I swear it’s the same story.

    There was this chick I’ve been seeing the past few weeks. HB8. Texted her “bring da movies”…she came over and I gave her a pack of skittles. She asked me a question about other girls and I told her “gay”. Next thing I know we are ripping each others clothes off and engaging in hot passionate protected intercourse.

    The next day she texted me what I was up to…and I said “it’s complicated”.

  98. van Rooinek

    Anonymoose : A woman who thinks of herself as mediocre is terrified of being approached by men of lower SMV than her fantasy alpha, because she fears that this will cause him to realize that she is not an apex female. Consequently, she is almost violently inconsiderate and unkind with her rejections,

    But why is it, that a Christian woman is even MORE likely to be “violently inconsiderate and unkind with her rejections”, than others?

    Why should church chickies be worse, not better?

  99. Ton

    Oh but in a very real way power = courage and courage = power.

    No matter how powerful a man is he must have the balls to use it or its pointless and chicks “know” this ( think Dom/ sub if you doubt me) & a man with balls who will go for what he wants, even if he “isn’t in the position” to try has power. More then he knows.

    ” Loser bad boy” screams can keep me safe from other dangerous men. That’s hypergamy and was very important not long ago. & if he roughs her up, it’s likely to be less dangerous then the unknown man

  100. Elspeth

    Where are these women that SSM and Elspeth are talking about, who value prudence, justice, temperance and courage? Of what women do you speak? And where might single men, including my son one day, find them?

    Well I am trying desperately to train my girls to use wisdom. But you completely missed my meaning. My husband is a man who is prudent, just, disciplined, and courageous. I find him anything but boring. So what you are asking about is not impossible. That’s all I was trying to say.

    You get no argument from me on the realities of the SMP/MMP and the folly of most women.

  101. Dr. Faust

    It isn’t the route I want to go.

    Well, what do you know about monks? I’m still curious and wondered if we could talk about it.

  102. earl

    I don’t know anything about monks other than they are isolated from the world, pray a lot, and only women they allow inside is the Virgin Mary.

    Until women think that all boys club is also sexist.

  103. Farm Boy

    And I have found courage very attractive in my husband when I have observed him doing something that I thought was courageous

    No mention of “just”.

  104. Dr. Faust

    I always wanted to be badass. Like a warrior with swords and magic and a pet dragon plus tattoos and a motorcycle with giant muscles that bulged and glistened in the sunlight.

  105. Elspeth

    No mention of “just”.

    Just: Based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

    If a man is a true Christian, then it goes without saying that this is part of his behavior. My husband is just and I appreciate it for a myriad reasons, but there is an attraction switch that is tripped when my husband does something courageous. I think this happens with many women because a courageous act speaks to our need to feel safe.

    By the same token, I value my husband’s prudence. It stabilizes our family. However, when he does something spontaneous, it is highly attractive. Even more so because he is by nature more spontaneous than his wife.

    Different characteristics evoke different responses. Is there something inherently wrong with that?

  106. donalgraeme

    Taking a brief moment here to address the issues of whether temperance, prudence, et al. are found attractive by women.

    As Deti rightly noted, Courage is attractive, as it is a component of (Masculine) Power. When you think about it, is there anything more manly or masculine that courage? In some respects it could be considered a principal virtue upon which all others rest.

    The other traits are all desirable or comfort traits. They fit into the picture of a man’s MMV, not his SMV. Thus, they are not attractive, but a woman can find them desirable in a man she wants as her mate. So for your average 20 year old American woman riding the carousel they mean nothing, but for a prudent and wise Christian woman seeking a husband they can be considered very valuable. So they are important, but they don’t have the same visceral impact as the attributes which fall under LAMPS.

  107. earl

    “I find him anything but boring.”

    See that is the crux of the idea here.

    A man can be all paragons of virtue…or dance with the devil. As long as he isn’t boring…that’s what women want.

    Which is why serial killers and cult leaders pull tail better than your typical quiet Churchian who agrees with anything.

  108. Farm Boy

    “I find him anything but boring.”

    See that is the crux of the idea here.

    When I was a child, I was not allowed to utter the words “I’m bored”. One needed to make their own fun. Modern women are not as capable as I was as a child.

    First World Problems.

  109. Elspeth

    When I was a child, I was not allowed to utter the words “I’m bored”. One needed to make their own fun. Modern women are not as capable as I was as a child.

    You know, it wasn’t a woman but a man who brought up the word “boring”, Farm Boy. I was just responding to the comment offered by Deti.

    I am more than capable of occupying myself, as I too was required to learn how as a child. My husband is not entertainment, as that’s not his job. He is however highly enjoyable to spend my time with.

  110. Farm Boy

    My husband is not entertainment, as that’s not his job

    Would you have married him if he was boring?

  111. sunshinemary Post author

    I don’t think I have ever been bored in my entire life. HHG adds interestingness to my life, but being something of an introvert, I’m self-amusing.

  112. Farm Boy

    Different characteristics evoke different responses. Is there something inherently wrong with that?

    It depends on whether it facilitates civilization.

  113. earl

    This coming from a gender that is fascinated by reality tv, whose best friend is a smartphone, and is duped by guys wearing fuzzy hats.

    A man’s #1 requirement is entertainment. You decide if what he is doing is entertaining.

    What to know the exact words my last gf said before she dumped me…”you aren’t exciting anymore.”

  114. Farm Boy

    but being something of an introvert, I’m self-amusing.

    I know the experience. The trouble is, my ex wanted me to amuse her also.

  115. Elspeth

    Would you have married him if he was boring?

    I don’t really see the point of your question, but does any woman get involved with any man if she doesn’t find him interesting to her in some way?

    Truth be told, it was his looks that reeled me in first, not his lack of banality. Cutting to the chase to answer to your question: Most likely I would not have.

    While he was never in any danger of ending up alone, I’m certain there are plenty of women who would have rejected him on some other basis. People go for different things. One woman’s “boring” is not the same as another woman’s.

  116. Elspeth

    Heck, I’m more than entertained just looking at my husband’s face for an extended period of time, so the idea that he has to perform like a trained monkey is ridiculous. That’s not even accounting for the fact that he would never dance to any tune I played anyway.

  117. sunshinemary Post author

    The trouble is, my ex wanted me to amuse her also.

    See, now that’s the problem with boring people. If they would only shut up, it wouldn’t bother me. I have plenty of ways to amuse myself. It’s when I have to pay attention to them that I feel bored. So I guess I can get bored when I am forced to pay attention to a boring person.

  118. Farm Boy

    @Earl

    This coming from a gender that is fascinated by reality tv, whose best friend is a smartphone, and is duped by guys wearing fuzzy hats.

    Look on the bright side. At least they are easy to entertain simpletons.

    Trouble is, their entertainment is extremely boring to me.

  119. earl

    “That’s not even accounting for the fact that he would never dance to any tune I played anyway.”

    Which is the definition of not boring.

  120. sunshinemary Post author

    Would you have married him if he was boring?

    The incredibly beautiful man I dated in college, whom we previously discussed, was boring. It would be torture to be married to a man like that. Would it be rude to tell him, “Just don’t talk and we’ll be okay, baby”?

  121. sunshinemary Post author

    This coming from a gender that is fascinated by reality tv, whose best friend is a smartphone, and is duped by guys wearing fuzzy hats.

    See, I can’t see any woman from around my blog or the adjacent blogosphere being fascinated by reality TV or smart phones.

  122. earl

    “Look on the bright side. At least they are easy to entertain simpletons.”

    Not really…it costs a lot to keep their dopamine levels that high. After all hypergamy states that her levels can never go back down…or she’ll look for something else.

  123. Elspeth

    Which is the definition of not boring

    I thought that was a good thing; being all manly and dominant. Which my man is. Should I be berated for appreciating that about him?

  124. Farm Boy

    Would it be rude to tell him, “Just don’t talk and we’ll be okay, baby”?

    Well, based on what she said, might have worked for Elspeth.

  125. earl

    “See, I can’t see any woman from around my blog or the adjacent blogosphere being fascinated by reality TV or smart phones.”

    Your blog represents probably .01% of the female population.

    Next time you are out…see how many women you witness looking at a smart phone. I saw three today at my gym.

  126. earl

    “I thought that was a good thing; being all manly and dominant. Which my man is. Should I be berated for appreciating that about him?”

    Is he entertaining because of his virtues, his manly face, or the fact he is spontaneous.

    I bet it has little to do with virtues…they just came along for the ride.

  127. Farm Boy

    Actually, “smart phone” for women seems to mean mostly Facebook.

    Much communication, signaling nothing.

    SSM, if you are going to Gaylord, visit the Claude Shannon park downtown. Figure out how it applies to the previous statement. BTW, he was a UM fella.

  128. Farm Boy

    Not really…it costs a lot to keep their dopamine levels that high. After all hypergamy states that her levels can never go back down…or she’ll look for something else

    Just keep buying her bigger and bigger flat screens, along with the latest smartphone. Apple and Samsung will graciously oblige you.

  129. Fuzzie Wuzzie

    Elspeth,
    You’re getting picked on. Undeservedly so.
    Maybr they’d be less grumpy if someone made them a sandwich.
    I’m going out for a hamburger.

  130. Farm Boy

    Elspeth,
    You’re getting picked on.

    Elspeth sees things pretty well. But she can never quite make it over that last hump.

  131. Kate

    Thanks, SSM :) We met at Rollo’s, but Heartiste knows me pretty well as a commenter too and is awfully proud. They’ve both been very influential.

  132. Elspeth

    Well, based on what she said, might have worked for Elspeth.

    Hardly, LOL. I enjoy listening to him because he’s a man of few words.So I hang on to his much more closely.

    Besides, he’s far more likely to shut me up than vice versa.

  133. Ton

    I’ve never set out to entertain a girl. Not as an adult at any rate. Live your life and if she entertains you, allow her to join the ride.

    The book, the way of men by Jack Donovan is a must read. He leaves his paganism and faggotry out of it. One of the things the book does ( by accident) describes the world as it was when hypergamy served a very useful purpose and survival required violence. I think folks get up set about stuff that served the humanity very well. You cannot expect these biological coded drives to disappear simply because we live in a well policed society (sadly)

    Dr F, what stopped you?

    SSM, would it be rude to hell him just don’t talk and we’ll be ok….. why not, I use that line on the regular.

  134. Elspeth

    Oh and I know I’m being picked on Fuzzie. It’s cool though. Seeing husband will assuage my hurt feelings when he arrives momentarily. :) .

    Y’all enjoy your weekend.

  135. nightskyradio

    FB – When I was a child, I was not allowed to utter the words “I’m bored”. One needed to make their own fun. Modern women are not as capable as I was as a child.

    “Here we are now, entertain us…” No wonder so many chicks loved Kurt, he knew what they were like. Over-bored and self-assured.

  136. Ton

    You wanted to “be a bad ass” or some such. What kept you from doing….. whatever qualifies?

  137. sunshinemary Post author

    Elspeth:

    I thought that was a good thing; being all manly and dominant. Which my man is. Should I be berated for appreciating that about him?

    Earl:

    Is he entertaining because of his virtues, his manly face, or the fact he is spontaneous. I bet it has little to do with virtues…they just came along for the ride.

    For me, it was that I was attracted to him, first off. But after that, it was that he was intelligent and witty. It really was; he has interesting things to say. And I still like that about him, plus he has much more virtue now than when we first married. And I still think he’s hot.

    [He just barked at me for putting a picture of him on my blog without asking, so I have removed it.]

  138. Dr. Faust

    Oh, a dragon, access to steroids, and two bum shoulders.

    I realized that anyone just reading this reply would think I’m a strange person. They would be correct. Don’t let my dashingly good looks and charming, boyish smile fool you, Make sure not to be taken in by my incredible wit or intense spirituality. I have no idea where I’m going with this so I’ll just quote the bible. “I”m fucking awesome,” –Jesus.

  139. Farm Boy

    the contractual guarantee of a social and romantic relationship between the two of them for one year!

    Perhaps we were too harsh on V-Lo. It could be that all she wants is the stabilizing influence of masculine dominance in her life.

  140. Fuzzie Wuzzie

    Dr. Faust,
    Normally, I like Steven Molyneux. He’s way off the mark on this one though.The last war that the Vatican took sides on was the Spanish Civil War. The Pope endorsed those led by Francisco Franco. Also supporting his cause were the Nazis and Fascists.
    OOPS!
    The Pope, being human, cannot be in possession of all the inforrmation.

  141. donalgraeme

    Fuzzie,

    Considering that the winners of the Spanish Civil War if Franco had lost would have been the Communists… I dare say that the Pope chose correctly. Franco and those on his side were certainly not saints, but given the destruction inflicted upon every country that has experienced it, Communism would have been much, much worse.

  142. Dr. Faust

    Okay, how do you guys believe in God? Why do you believe in God? Does God speak to you? How do you know God is real and isn’t just made up?

  143. Ton

    #1 the odds of evolution are to far remote to be believed. Disorder does not create order; no windstorm has hit a junk yard and made something useful, even the most primitive tools have a creator…. lots of things along those lines. Geological stuff like knowing rock formations in caves which are supposed to take many thousands of years have grown up in decades in abandoned train tunnels. Geologists guess the ravines caused by Mt Saint Helens was as old as the grand canyon…..

    #2 much of the Bible is verifiably historical accurate one of the best documented ancient texts

    #3 many times in my life I have been faced with situations were doing one way would lead to death and destruction going the other lead to safety. A voice has always told me which way to go, even when there was no way of knowing which path was which. No man guesses correctly that many times in a row.

    #4 a goodly number of pagan belief systems have an unknowable greater God that is to far removed for worship. This helped spread monotheism in several places.

    #5 the apostles died for their faith, would they have maintained a fraud when denying the resurrection would save it?

    More then I could possible relay.

  144. Dr. Faust

    Why is islam so popular? I know popularity has nothing to do with the truth but why would God let a false religion become so popular? They really believe in their religion too. Why are there so many similarities between Christianity and Buddhism? Whose interpretation of the bible should I believe?

  145. Joseph of Jackson

    @Dr. Faust

    “Why is islam so popular?”
    Paganism is popular because we are sinners

    “I know popularity has nothing to do with the truth but why would God let a false religion become so popular?”
    Because he made us for his good pleasure and he is allowing the wheat and tares to grow together until time for the harvest. Then we will be separated.

    “They really believe in their religion too.”
    Their religion hasn’t predicted the coming of the messiah 400 years before it occurred like the book of Daniel did.

    “Why are there so many similarities between Christianity and Buddhism?”
    Poison is 99.9% good food. It doesn’t take much to kill you.

    “Whose interpretation of the bible should I believe?”
    Or you could ask the Holy Spirit to talk to you directly and bypass the middle man.

  146. Fuzzie Wuzzie

    donalgraeme,
    We do tend to forget about how vicious the Nazis were. Their regime went down in 1945 after a mere twelve years. It took the biggest war the world has seen to do it.
    Can we argue with Roosevelt and Churchill about the greater threat?

  147. Fuzzie Wuzzie

    SSM,
    Well, you did violate his privacy posting that picture. Having seen it, it’s comforting to know that he’s human. Did he leave his red cape at home that day?

  148. Joseph of Jackson

    @ Dr. Faust

    “Okay, how do you guys believe in God?”
    Easy, the vast majority of people in human history have believed in a deity of some sort. To not believe in one is the abnormality.

    “Why do you believe in God?”
    There is no other option. Evolution (when you get past the blind adherence and view the actual data) just isn’t possible. Macro evolution isn’t demonstrateable. Cosmic evolution has more questions than answers by a factor of 4.

    “Does God speak to you?”
    Yep, it’s called the Bible.

    “How do you know God is real and isn’t just made up?”
    Because no other book can claim to have accurately detailed the coming of a man who would complete dozens of prophecies and give you an accurate way to tell the year in which he would appear 400 years before it occurred like the book of Daniel did.

  149. Farm Boy

    @FuzzyWuzzie

    Spain stayed out of WWII. Franco’s regime eventually evolved into a democracy, and it did so long before the Soviet Union. And it did it better.

  150. Sharrukin

    Fuzzie Wuzzie July 26, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    We do tend to forget about how vicious the Nazis were. Their regime went down in 1945 after a mere twelve years. It took the biggest war the world has seen to do it.
    Can we argue with Roosevelt and Churchill about the greater threat?

    Neither Roosevelt or Churchill made war on Franco. They apparently didn’t see him as that much of a problem.

  151. Fuzzie Wuzzie

    Farm Boy and Sharrukin,
    The Spanish Civil War was the warm up for World War II. When WWII started, Spain was war torn wreck. Franco, in choosing to remain neutral, showed wisdom. Had he jumped in, he would have owed loyalty to the Axis.

  152. Dr. Faust

    Do you have any links to information disproving evolution? What about the claims that the bible is historical? Who wrote the bible? General apologetics? Links not patties please.

  153. Sharrukin

    Fuzzie Wuzzie

    Can we argue with Roosevelt and Churchill about their decision not to go to war with Franco?

  154. Sharrukin

    Dr. Faust July 26, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Do you have any links to information disproving evolution?

    That’s not really how science is supposed to work. The proponents of a theory are the ones with the burden of proof, and it shouldn’t be granted default status as the ideologically approved belief system.

  155. Cail Corishev

    A woman cannot be hypergamous and be attracted to loser “bad boys” at the same time.

    Sure she can. You’re assuming she sees the “bad boy” as a loser. She doesn’t, which is the point. The imperfection is yours.

  156. Ton

    Most of the links I could throw down are geared for homeschooling parents, might be I could scrounge them if’ ing folks wish

  157. Elspeth

    [He just barked at me for putting a picture of him on my blog without asking, so I have removed it.]

    I missed it? Oh, well. I would never post SAM’s pic publicly but since you’ve seen mine Sunshine, feel free to show me yours via email.

    By the way folks, my husband is handsome but he’s also very intelligent. I wouldn’t have married him if he wasn’t interesting. He just really believes what the Bible says about an abundance of words. He has always kept his cards close to the vest. To those privileged enough to earn his respect and trust, his depth is admirable. Professionally he is well respected and highly competent.

    After a quick re-read I detected a hint of insult because I said I was drawn to his looks first. I have a libido, but it isn’t the only thing. Sheesh. After all this time do I seem that shallow to you?

  158. Fuzzie Wuzzie

    Sharrukin,
    Roosevelt would have never considered intervention in Spain. As it turned out, all the foreign intervention made things worse for the Spanish. Nearly everyone embargoed them, except Germany, Italy, and Russia.
    I don’t know how Churchill stood with respect to the war, but he hated both the Nazis and the Bolsheviks. Between the two, the Nazis worried him more. At the time, he was a Member of Parliament. He wasn’t Prime Minister until after Poland fell.

  159. Cail Corishev

    I’m not usually one to pull “she’s not that hot” on women who are officially hot by dint of being models and such, but….she’s really not that hot, at least in this picture. Something to do with her lips being 10 times as thick as her overly-plucked eyebrows, maybe. And then to be known as 7’1″, 325 lb. Shaq’s sloppy seconds — yeah, it’s not too hard to see why she might have to trap the guy she wants. If she doesn’t scale down her expectations in a big hurry before she loses what’s left of her somewhat odd looks, I foresee a future of turning tricks the old-fashioned way on the street for her. That’s harsh, but the only other option is a public come-to-Jesus moment followed by some kind of anti-slut ministry, but there’s no evidence that she has the talent for that.

  160. taylor

    @cail corishev

    After reading this post, I googled her and thought the same thing. The photo posted above is actually one of her best looks. I am not sure what she is doing with her (lack of) eyebrows. It looks so very strange.

  161. thehumanscorch

    Shirley Jones, Momma Partridge, forever ruined by her bad boy:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/shirley-jones_0_n_3647862.html

    “Off camera, in the real world, the Swinging Seventies were in full bloom, and Jack was determined to explore every aspect of the new sexual freedom. He wanted it all: swinging, pornography, drugs, group sex. I carried on just looking away and ignoring his infidelities.”
    She also reveals that she and Cassidy briefly separated for an eight month period before reconciling, much to the dismay of a psychiatrist she had been seeing at a time.

    “He was never able to be alone, so now he wanted me to take him back. I didn’t have to think too long about my answer. We had three children together, he was their father, and despite everything I still loved him. The psychiatrist I was then seeing told me that I was making a big mistake by taking him back: “You are never going to change that man. Don’t go back into this marriage thinking you can.” He was right, of course, but the Shirley Jones who had fallen so deeply in love with Jack Cassidy so many years ago wasn’t prepared to relinquish her dream man. And I didn’t.”
    Eventually, however, she did. The pair split in 1974 following Cassidy’s 1973 diagnosis as manic depressive and bipolar.

    “The truth about the man I loved, and about our marriage, was penetrating my consciousness at last, so that I finally started to come to terms with the harsh reality that my life with Jack, my dream man, my white knight, my sexual Svengali, might well be ending forever.”
    This isn’t the first time Jones has opened up about her relationship with Cassidy, who died in a fire in 1976. She told newspapers in 1983 that if he were alive, she doubted that she would have ever married her second husband Marty Ingels, to whom she is still married.

    “He wanted to come back (to me) right up to the day he died,” she said. “And as I realized later, I wanted him. That’s the terrible part. Much as I love Marty and have a wonderful relationship –- I’d say this with Marty sitting here –- I’m not sure if Jack were alive I’d be married to Marty.”

    Welp. There you have it. A woman never forgets her first love, and if it’s also her first bad boy, there’s no hope.

  162. nightskyradio

    Dr. F – I can’t really believe in something unless I can rationalize it

    Dr. Faust has just distilled the underlying axiomatic proof, the elementary nexus, the pivot that the entire manosphere revolves around. We can all go home now.

    SSM – Someone go tell him I did it first. heheheh

    Bazang! http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/did-commenter-kate-meet-her-fiance-at-chateau-heartiste/#comment-460854

    Although you really should have commented yourself and posted that snazzy banner somebody gave you. ;P

    Of course, 7man and Lena played that golf course before you or us even got on the green. :)

  163. M3

    Holy Crap (pardon the pun) but what is this?

    Are you trying to top Susan Walsh in the comments arms race? I leave for a few hours and this thread has exploded. LOL.

    “FuzzieWuzzie July 26, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Hypergamy sounds an awful lot like greed. Unchecked greed has led a lot of people to do some terrible things. Don’t we call that evil?”

    I call it Capitalism hehehe.

  164. Joseph of Jackson

    @ Dr. Faust

    “Do you have any links to information disproving evolution? What about the claims that the bible is historical? Who wrote the bible? General apologetics? Links not patties please.”

    My only concern right now is are you asking because you are curious or do you have your mind made up and are simply trying to goad someone into a dialogue to try and make them look silly? I’ve met and spoken with many atheists. Mostly, they aren’t concerned about trying to carry on a real conversation. To them it’s all about trying to prove that Christians don’t know what they are talking about.

    Now to address your questions.

    1) Do you have any links to information disproving evolution?

    Evolution can’t be proven. Every time you asks a scientist why we can’t observe it, they will tell you it take a very long time to accomplish. However, if you look at the fossil record, you come across something known as the “cambrian explosion”. This is an ancient sediment that has many (if not all) of the modern forms of animals all represented at the same time. Their theory is that evolution simply occurred very rapidly during this period. I as a Christian look at this and say that perhaps they are looking at the information all wrong.

    Secondly, dealing with the age of the earth. Simply put, if you elimiate assumptions, there is no way to tell definitively how old rocks are.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/radiometric-dating
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v4/n3/radiometric-dating

    The creatious layer of the geological column (a universal layer) is actually made up of chalk. Chalk is only formed by microscopic marine animals dying and leaving their shells behind. Which means that the cretatious period of earths history was actually underwater which lends more credence to a Christian worldview involving a flood than an evolutionary one as all land moving animals would have to re-evolve.

    2) History and the bible

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bible%27s+historical+accuracy
    http://www.icr.org/biblical-record/

    There is soooo much evidence behind this that it is stupifying. You literally have to disregard things to even have a hope of proving otherwise.

    3) Who wrote the Bible?

    Which part? Genesis chapter one was written by God himself and one chapter of Daniel was written by Nebuchadnezzar the king of babylon.

    4) General apologetics?

    I apologize that Christians have been panzies up to this point and am doing my dead level best to fix it. If I have anything to say about it, we will be much more forceful with the truth in the future. Thank you for your patience.

    Sorry about the delivery, I prefer my truth raw not in patties or links.

  165. Looking Glass

    “Greed”, as in the Sin, is not “good” by any stretch. Self-interest is good, but Greed tramples over all others, doesn’t play by laws and otherwise destroys all it touches like King Midas.

  166. an observer

    Why should church chickies be worse, not better?

    Theory: within a smaller pool the reality of assortative mating more grimly reflects the womans smv. Raised to believe she’s a sanctified little snowflake, she violently rejects any approach that truly reflects her smv.

    This also helps rationalise those excursions into missionary dating, invariably leading to the missionary position, or even single momhood. She knows shes worth more than the men she rejects.

  167. earl

    “After all this time do I seem that shallow to you?”

    Why are you afraid of being shallow? You were attracted to him because your eggs said so. That’s probably going to be the case whenever a woman comes into my life….and I’ll be attracted to her because my dick says so.

    Good for him to have the ability to be interesting and virtuous….those are two things that keep a marriage going. I have those things too…they are my core. It is a matter of clearling that first hurdle that I have to keep working on.

  168. HanSolo

    Actually, it is indirectly about abortion. Without artificial birth control, abortion, no-fault divorce laws, welfare, and child support laws for both legitimate and illegitimate children, the sexual revolution which is directly responsible for the unchaining of female hypergamy could never have happened.

    Exactly and the promiscuous apex alpha males are loving it, getting laid like rock stars. Without their support of all this it never would have happened. We rightly point out the influence of the feminists and the sluts but it wouldn’t have happened had the apex alpha males been in favor of unchaining female hypergamy.

  169. HanSolo

    Hypergamy makes sense. Women’s eggs are few and sperm is many. In a safe/rich environment women will go for the “best” genes they can get (however they define that). It’s only when times get hard and dangerous and a man is absolutely needed to stick around that she’ll then trade off tingles for the provider/protector that will stick around to help her and her/their children to survive.

    The developed world is safe and rich and so women don’t need the provider/protector at the individual level (gov’t has taken on much of that role and technology has created a world where physical strength–the domain of men–isn’t needed that much to provide or protect–think machines and guns–so women can work and make enough between themselves and gov’t support).

    The above is simply a description of the realities we see, both past and present, and not a statement that hypergamy is wonderful, just that it is and where it came from.

    I wrote a much longer post that delves into these ideas in greater detail:

    http://www.justfourguys.com/evolutionary-incentives-why-women-are-going-for-badboys-and-players-instead-of-stable-providers/

  170. HanSolo

    Actually, hypergamy makes sense. Eggs are few and sperm are many. It’s just like how peahens go for the “best” peacock, because the peacock doesn’t raise the young so the peahens might as well get the “best” genes they can. In a safe/rich environment, women have less disincentive to go for the “best” genes they can get (however they define that). It’s only when times get hard and dangerous and a man is absolutely needed to stick around that she’ll then trade off tingles for the provider/protector that will stick around to help her and their children to survive.

    The developed world is safe and rich and so women don’t need the provider/protector at the individual level (gov’t has taken on much of that role and technology has created a world where physical strength–the domain of men–isn’t needed that much to provide or protect–think machines and guns–so women can work and make enough between themselves and gov’t support). And the promiscuous appealing males–especially the apex alphas, alphas and greater betas–love it because lots of average to highly attractive pussy has been “liberated” for their taking.

    The above is simply a description of the realities we see, both past and present, and not a statement that hypergamy is wonderful, just that it is and where it came from.

    Check out the link in my username if you want to read a much longer post I wrote that delves into these ideas in greater detail.

  171. earl

    “It’s only when times get hard and dangerous and a man is absolutely needed to stick around that she’ll then trade off tingles for the provider/protector that will stick around to help her and their children to survive.”

    I’m sure a lot of women are unaware how hard and dangerous these times actually are.

  172. HanSolo

    In the past, badboys had to put up that they were actually tough fighters, warriors and hunters or shut up. They didn’t have a ton of laws and cops at their back to protect them like today, where you have a lot of fake badboys walking around all tough and never having to show whether there’s any substance behind their sizzling show.

    However, female attraction triggers developed in those conditions where a man who could get away with being a badboy really had to be tough and thus had good genes and good ability and was worth getting pregnant by. Today, though, those attraction traits in women are easier to trick and so a man with lots of bravado or even charisma (but with nothing else to back that up) can make women tingle in the short run and get sex from her.

  173. HanSolo

    @earl

    But how hard are they? No one’s dying of starvation in the US. Murder, rape and crime rates have come down dramatically over the last 20 or so years. Yeah, income has stagnated and even gone down a bit for the middle class but are still so much higher than levels 100 or 2,000 or more years ago. The so-called poor in the US are not poor in the traditional sense of the word. They have decent housing, food, tv’s, cars, phones, health care, a relatively safe environment and more (all when compared to standards 100 or more years ago).

    Perhaps hard times are coming but they aren’t here yet, when compared with historical standards where people really had to bust their ass just to survive.

  174. Ton

    I wonder how many dudes tearing through women got burned and them went on their run? That is their reaction to the times we live in and not their initial plan. Right now I’m thinking a goodly number but I am sure it’s a question without a verifiable answer.

  175. HanSolo

    @Ton

    In a way that happened to me. I got dumped by a woman I want to marry (I was still a virgin at the time). Was devastated so started trying to find out why. Found some game stuff and a lot of what they talked about matched the times I’d been successful with women, as well as when I was not. More recently found the sphere. But I haven’t lost sight of wanting to get married (in spite of its pit falls) and have several children.

  176. HanSolo

    @Ton

    I would have happily married that woman and then just had N of 1. For better or worse that didn’t happen and so I went on a bit of a run, though it didn’t start for a few years after being dumped.

    Typo in previous comment: want should be wanted

  177. Ton

    Well I’m not living the way I would have thought when I was 18 & newly married Han. Then after I had a short dating rough patch where I was way to serious and had not yet eradicated all the none sense I learned from the church. Then came an engagement that did not work out, a string of unfaithful girl friends, watching wives go feral, more observations of general disrespect women carry for men and all things masculine, then comes studying and so much secondary support for a man’s 1’st hand observations……. Long story short I am playing the game given the reality of the world and myself as a man. “Traditional marriage & kids” I cannot recommend because of women and the courts. MGTOW, seems to leave at lot out of life but makes a lot of sense. Went with out sex for 5 years, worse then being shot in the chest. Could never really do the PUA thing long term….. now it’s like I have a foot in each camp.

    Every once in a while a young man will want to know what route to go and I have shit for an answer.

  178. earl

    “But how hard are they?”

    They have everything they could ever want…except for morality and a sense of mortality. And they are unhappy.

    If you lived everyday like it could be your last…you would never be bored with the life you have. Many people are bored.

  179. vam Rooinek

    Dr Faust: “Why are there so many similarities between Christianity and Buddhism?”

    “After me will come the Lord of Mercy. All my followers must then follow Him!” — Buddha

  180. van Rooinek

    Dr Faust: “Why are there so many similarities between Christianity and Buddhism?”

    “After me will come the Lord of Mercy. All my followers must then follow Him!” — Buddha

  181. van Rooinek

    SSM: [HHG] just barked at me for putting a picture of him on my blog without asking, so I have removed it.

    And we’re back to dog collars…

  182. earl

    What people don’t get that life is actually lived through some suffering.

    Everything in this society is about covering up any and all versions of suffering. It never works though.

  183. earl

    “No one’s dying of starvation in the US.”

    I disagree…all those fat people are starving to death. They are eating poison that looks like food.

  184. earl

    @ Ton…

    With this society…the only thing I would suggest to men is embracing mental insanity.

    Marriage and kids…is a good rational thing to do to keep civilzation going. Except that if you do it…you are usually sealing your doom because the current system wants civilization to disengrate. You have to be insane to take on marriage.

    MGTOW…is a good thing to have a mission in life. Except if you do it…you’ll likely piss off a bunch of people in the process for thinking outside the box. People are scared of different people but also look to them as leaders…if you can live with the fact you’ll be generally alone go for it. You have to be insane to take on going your own way.

    Going without sex is a great way to have self-discipline. You will have great power to take on the world and to improve yourself. Except if you do it that power will likely give you more money, more notice, and turn on women. They’ll do everything they can to take those away from you. You have to be insane to go without sex.

    PUAs are a great way into the female pysche. But you also have to be insane to wallow in that jungle.

    So when somebody calls me insane…they are right. I dabble in all 4 of those things too.

  185. Ton

    Preach that bullshit about going without sex to someone else. I know what that is like and all I can say is never again.

  186. Farm Boy

    With respect to greed, a limited amount is good, as it can align a person’s motivations with the betterment of society; or on a more fundamental level, motivating people into delivering goods and services that are desired.

  187. earl

    “Preach that bullshit about going without sex to someone else. I know what that is like and all I can say is never again.”

    Sounds like it was involuntary.

  188. Farm Boy

    [HHG] just barked at me for putting a picture of him on my blog without asking, so I have removed it.

    Pack leader, he is. Since Detroit is a doghouse, you are already there.

  189. Farm Boy

    Can you see Obama’s faggoty ass ever pulling off the stunts Putin does?

    He can play basketball. So there.

  190. earl

    “Can you see Obama’s faggoty ass ever pulling off the stunts Putin does?”

    I couldn’t even see Obama pulling off the stunts his “wife” does.

  191. Miserman

    “Why do you believe in God?”
    I talk to Him everyday.

    What do you mean I don’t support your system?
    I go to court when I have to.
    What do you mean I ain’t kind?
    Just not your kind.

  192. earl

    SSM put up a picture of HHG? I must have missed that.

    That was improper behavior. You could have led the ladies here to have tingles. You should probably stop bragging about him too. There are as many men like him out there as there are skinny pleasant women in this day and age. People will stop at nothing to get the best.

    From now on the stock photo of husbands is this guy.

    http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0036939/

  193. Ton

    Some men are called to it which is… cool but beyond my understanding. Most men aren’t which is something the called never seem to understand

    Now…. that line about Obama’s wife…. that’s funny as hell.

  194. earl

    “What do you mean I don’t support your system?
    I go to court when I have to.
    What do you mean I ain’t kind?
    Just not your kind.”

    Mustaine probably answered every hard question known to man in that song.

  195. earl

    “Some men are called to it which is… cool but beyond my understanding. Most men aren’t which is something the called never seem to understand.”

    The sex drive doesn’t magically go away because you will it away. It is still there.

    I am one sexy vixen’s siren call away from becoming a hypocrite.

  196. Hannah

    Farm Boy – about ‘boredom’ – it’s a banned word in this household! As it was in my childhood – If we mentioned being bored we were given a job.

    @Ton:
    “Women and courage…. yep it attracts them, but it’s not the kind of courage you’re thinkin off. Are chicks “impressed” with my medals? Nope. Are they “impressed” I carry a gun into places I shouldn’t, don’t wear a helmet on my bike, and have a moonshine still? Yep.”

    To women the medals represent courageous obedience to orders.
    The gun the reckless bike riding and the moonshine signify a boldness to life that screams raw courage!

    HanSolo – I enjoyed reading the post at your site.
    I have known real fear and never felt ‘safe’ in this world until I met my husband.
    I lived in the shadows of the darkness and met my lone wolf there.
    He offered me life with him and is willing to die to protect me. I seek to be worthy of his love.

    On abortion –
    It makes me weep and I am reduced to tears.
    Innocent blood shed in the Weaker Vessel designed to bring it to life.
    If the ‘gentler’ sex won’t protect the most vulnerable – what hope is there for mankind?
    This smacks in the face of Evolution….. what animal mother kills it’s young before it’s gasped for air?
    The world’s going backwards. Explain that Darwin.

    I wrote a song once –

    In the name of Freedom
    Exercising your Rights
    Woman you turn on yourself
    Destroy all you were designed to bring to life.

    You tear apart what you were given
    Close your ears to the silent screams
    Sheild your eyes from the guilt that is yours
    But it appears with invisible ink
    Their blood is on your hands

    It’s a cruel world turning away
    From limb-torn babes of its’ own kind
    Going door to door saving animals in the name of Peace
    Why rush to change cultures not our own
    While there’s a war on our doorstep

    Never shake a baby say the experts
    But they say crushing is allowed
    Semantics call her a baby when she’s wanted
    While another little one is discarded as a ‘group of cells’
    Just an unwanted product of the curse

    Do we turn away and pretend we don’t hear
    the voiceless cry and unseen tears?
    Who will speak for those who have no voice?

    Life torn from the safety of the sanctuary
    Spilling innocent blood in the temple
    When the womb becomes a tomb
    Another Abomination of Desolation

  197. Ton

    Yea darling that’s the way of it Hannah, and the raw is primal and primal is attractive. Hence the bad boy thing. And let’s be honest there is a fair number of semi bad boys/ skirt the law types who do have hearts of gold and the occasional bad ass in and out of jail types who do love their wife and kids. Enough for every baby girl to have her bad boy…. very very doubtful but there are enough to keep the meme alive

    I’m doing my lazy Saturday morning watching Tv with my Girl and my girls. I am watching amercian ninja warrior, crushing blueberry pancakes with blueberry syrup…. all you 5’6″ 150 pound dudes who think you can not be or project raw physical power without 21″ guns, do yourselves a favor and go check at that show.

    One of the reasons I love athletics so much is the vast array of ways it can be displayed and pursued.

  198. sunshinemary Post author

    On Franco versus communism:

    Abortion was illegal in Spain under Franco.

    Upon seizing power, the Bolsheviks quickly legalized abortion in Russia. By the 1950s, Russia had the highest abortion rate in the world. At the time of the fall of the Soviet Union, according to Wikipedia: 86% of women over the age of fifteen had had at least one abortion. The average 25-year-old woman had had three abortions and some women had had more than twenty.

    Women behave better under monarchies and dictatorships than they do under socialism/communism or democracies in which they have suffrage.

  199. The Observer

    @Hannah:

    “This smacks in the face of Evolution….. what animal mother kills it’s young before it’s gasped for air?”

    Rabbits. Guppies. Insects. Other R-selected animals. Mate rampantly. Low investment in offspring. Little concern for life, as it can be easily replaced through indiscriminate breeding. No loyalty or emotional attachment to peers. Devour own young.

    Sounds familiar?

  200. earl

    I have a new favorite president.

    http://www.calvincoolidge.us/humor.html

    Coolidge recalled an incident about his days in the Massachusetts Senate which involved a senator from Boston who was highly insistent that a bill affecting his district should be called for a vote immediately. Coolidge told him he didn’t think the bill was important enough in that rush hour and he didn’t think he could do it. The senator then snapped at Coolidge angrily and said “You can go to hell” whereupon Coolidge retorted, “Senator, I’ve looked up the law on that and I don’t have to go.”

  201. Farm Boy

    The sex drive doesn’t magically go away because you will it away. It is still there.

    The selection of modern females can put a damper on it though.

  202. Farm Boy

    Coolidge is allright, for a damnyankee, most likely doomed for all eternity for it

    Yes, he was a New Englander, which I am not partial to. However, as president, he did not do anything stupid. That seems to be the most we can hope for out of a president these days.

  203. earl

    “It has been my observation in life that, if one will exercise the patience to wait, his wants are likely to be fulfilled.”

    Coolidge would have been deemed a lunatic in this day and age.

  204. HanSolo

    @Ton

    In spite of some enjoyment of numerous women, to me that has been a shallow reward and the deeper desire to really connect with someone and have a loving family with kids is ever present. I’ve certainly made mistakes along the way of being too picky (even though I think women on average are too picky more than men, men can be too) and passing up what would have been good partners in hindsight but I look around at my female friends who are still single to this day and simply want these men that are out of their league while most of the men sooner or later (with some exceptions) adjusted to what they could get and got married.

    I wish the culture and system were more geared towards keeping female pickiness in line and that the legal environment were not so man unfriendly. But my desire to have kids and a good family are greater than my fear of the real risks so I’m left to simply having to choose wisely and act in a way that keeps her attracted.

  205. HanSolo

    @Earl

    I agree that many people lack a spiritual purpose and are unhappy due to this and the lack of moral guidelines to keep them in the path of happiness.

    A material feast…and a famine of deeper meaning.

  206. HanSolo

    @Hannah

    HanSolo – I enjoyed reading the post at your site.
    I have known real fear and never felt ‘safe’ in this world until I met my husband.
    I lived in the shadows of the darkness and met my lone wolf there.
    He offered me life with him and is willing to die to protect me. I seek to be worthy of his love.

    Thanks, Hannah. I’m glad you met your lone wolf and that he makes you feel safe as you two wander along the high ridges and peaks under the silvery light of moon, with white snow beneath and scattered dark pines on either side.

  207. Je Suis Prest

    @ Hannah

    Your song is eloquently sad, although I don’t think know that there are any words in any language available to humans to fully express the enormity of the tragedy of so many murdered innocents. What God is knitting together in a mother’s womb, we callously crush and tear apart. It breaks my heart….

  208. Je Suis Prest

    @ Farm Boy

    I didn’t see your post until just now. Wow, just wow. I’ve seen a lot volunteering at the shelter, and it never ceases to amaze me how people can be so cruel to animals that give nothing but love and comfort when treated decently. That woman is truly a piece of work though…

  209. Ton

    Well Han that quest for something deeper seems pretty popular but never had that be an issue. The shallow reward has always come with a lot of peace of mind and peaceful experience

  210. rmaxgenactivepua

    @Ton

    Real game, dont need guns or lamps … He who dares wins

    Theres different levels of military might, theres the grunts & jocks, then theres the assasins & stealth experts, reality hackers & then theres the savants & universalists & dimensional experts

    As long as you enable the unexpected, you can out think & outgun anything, its all about being fascinated with the genius of an idea, & realising the impossibility of everything around you, & using an impossibility as a ratio for complexity

  211. Hipster Racist

    The way I see it, all the men that complain women go for “bad boys” should ask themselves, why are they always going for Heartbreakers?

    Bad Boys vs. Heartbreakers

    This is how to be a heartbreaker
    Boys they like a little danger
    We’ll get him falling for a stranger
    A player, singing I lo-lo-love you

    At least I think I do!

  212. Ton

    In 24 years with half of that being pretty “special” to completely “special” never heard not one pro use such silly verbiage.

  213. FuzzieWuzzie

    SSM,
    I’m tired of fighting the Spanish Civil War all over again.
    I did go to wikipedia to chech out your reference. It’s worthy of being linked and read:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia

    Russia is one messed up country.The last number that I heard was that their population declined by 800,000.
    I had heard that once the Bolsheviks were in, there was a lot of “progressive” innovations related to women’s issues. Pretty much all of it backfired.
    What’s stunning is abortions outnumbering live births in so many years.

    I don’t think that I’ll being doing any business with Russian mail order brides.

  214. alcestiseshtemoa

    I’ll just go out and say it. I’m biased like everyone here. Now to the point…

    Horrible and unfounded opinions about Russia’s current state here. According to blogger Akarlin the Muslim menace isn’t that strong and dangerous –> http://darussophile.com/2013/07/08/from-russia-to-russabia/

    The Russian birthrate is stable and rebounding in some instances. It also helps that Muslims are minorities and not majorities.

  215. alcestiseshtemoa

    Abortion has also been falling for decades in Russia too. It swear, it’s not enough that Americans think that Russians are fascistic skinheads, apparently they also abort a lot. They don’t. At least, not as much as they used to under communism, the revolution and stuff.

  216. sunshinemary Post author

    @ alcesti
    We can thank the Russian Orthodox Church for the decrease in the abortion rate. Once they were not stifled by communist dictators, they began to speak against abortion. Prior to the fall of the USSR, the average number of abortions per woman over the course of her reproductive life was nine. It was used as birth control.

    I lived in Russia briefly. I was supposed to stay longer and teach at the university for a while, but there was economic trouble and civil unrest in the country (this was about five years after the fall of communism). I was glad to come home, as I missed my husband terribly while I was there, but it was a fascinating place. Here is a picture, taken by my friend Irina, of twenty-something me in Novgorod, getting ready to depart for Moscow. As I’ve mentioned before, my natural hair color is auburn, as you can see.

    I don’t remember why I decided to have such a vampy look on my face, LOL. Trying to look very mysterious, like I just stepped out of a soviet spy film, I suppose.

  217. alcestiseshtemoa

    I’m joyful for the Russian Orthodox Church and the fall of Soviet Communism.

    Auburn is redhead correct? Redhead is a beautiful and rare hair color SSM.

  218. alcestiseshtemoa

    Go red hair!

    [ssm: Ha! My husband prefers blonde, though, and I've kept my hair blonde since my late twenties.]

  219. theshadowedknight

    Plus one for redheads. I am blonde myself, but red hair is a good look on women.

    Now, so I do not appear to be sucking up, neener neener! Hahaha!

    The Shadowed Knight

  220. Manna from Heaven

    “Now that’s extreme hypergamy, friends. Ms. Lopez is a model; she does not lack for male attention. Yet she is not quite pretty enough to secure anything other than sex from the very top tier men in our society, which are professional athletes and rock stars. ”

    It has nothing to do with “pretty”. She’s about as good-looking as any other starlet her age.

    Lopez’s actions are not shocking. They are perfectly in line with the values of American culture. Sex and money are the gods here. We all know that.

  221. FuzzieWuzzie

    It’s kind of off topic, but all this talk about red hair reminded me of a hypothesis. Red hair and freckles (yes, that’s me) are very recessive genes. Yet they’re still out there.
    Could that be an attraction factor based on in-group bias?
    Girls love being complimented on their freckles. After taking so much grief in grade school, it’s a welcome change.

  222. theshadowedknight

    Well, they are recessive, but the Vikings raped the Irish, literally and figuratively, then spread their genes all over Europe. Iceland is half Irish, genetically speaking. Russia, England, France were hit, too. Given their range, those recessive genes are probably latent in a very large section of the population. That would keep them around, and occasionally expressed.

    The Shadowed Knight

  223. Manna from Heaven

    “Ms. Lopez didn’t just want money. She wanted a written contract between herself and Mr. Reddick stating that she would murder their unborn child in exchange for both money and the contractual guarantee of a social and romantic relationship between the two of them for one year!”

    So did J.J. bite? He’s a damn fool if he did.

  224. van Rooinek

    SSM: We can thank the Russian Orthodox Church for the decrease in the abortion rate. Once they were not stifled by communist dictators, they began to speak against abortion

    It’s my understanding that the underground Russian Baptists and Pentecostals, even back in Soviet era, were known for having families of 10-12 kids commonly, since they rejected contraception as well as abortion. Hope they haven’t changed.

    Our church has ties with a Russian evangelical church near Beslan. The pastor of that church had 5 children…. 4 of which were killed in the Beslan massacre.

  225. Manna from Heaven

    “The pastor of that church had 5 children…. 4 of which were killed in the Beslan massacre.”

    How sad that a commenter here is advocating what he calls “Generation Kill’s Genghis Khan Game”

  226. earl

    A car over food…and her son learning skills. Choosing the flashy man who left her over the guy with survival skills…bad judgement.

    However…if she told him all this before they got married and he still married her…that’s a lack of judgement on his part.

  227. Legion

    Sharrukin July 26, 2013 at 10:46 pm
    “Fuzzie Wuzzie
    Can we argue with Roosevelt and Churchill about their decision not to go to war with Franco?”

    Let’s start with the fact that Churchill didn’t get to be Prime Minister until the Spanish Civil War ended. He wasn’t in charge when England declared war on Germany, Chamberlain was.

    Germany declared war on US first. Spain never did.

  228. Ton

    Both world wars were dumb, dumb DUMB! Killing millions of good working class White men for fucking nothing. Much smarter to have united and forced more resources and the like out of the rest of the world. The full might of the West and Eastern Europe pissed away and leading to the shit we have now

  229. Farm Boy

    About the Russian video. She has the tingles real bad, but uses provisioning as an excuse. Tingles Trumps Provisioning

  230. van Rooinek

    … Russian evangelical church near Beslan. The pastor of that church had 5 children…. 4 of which were killed in the Beslan massacre.

    Manna: How sad that a commenter here is advocating what he calls “Generation Kill’s Genghis Khan Game”

    For what it’s worth, when Genghis Khan’s armies conquered Baghdad, they exterminated the entire Muslim population of the city. But the Christians were spared, because one of the Khan’s wives was a Nestorian Christian and interceded with the Khan on their behalf.

    So for a brief moment in history, it was all-Christian city. Thanks to Genghis Khan and the Christian woman in the great warrior’s harem. (JSP…. Ton…??)

  231. Ton

    Thanks v/R but I’m no were smart enough to run such a complex, highly moblie combined arms operation like the Khan of Khans and his side kick….. who may have been the real brains behind the conquest. Cannot recall the fellas name, and wouldn’t spell it correctly if I did.

    Moslems are more afraid of Tarmlane or some such who was a moslem. More wide spread brutality for the sake of being brutal with looting being the man goal vs the Great Khan’ s goal of long term taxation, controlling trade routes etc and brutality being a tool

    Going with the bdsm theme of recent weeks I’m running a small poly 1950’s style household ( if you count a girlfriend living with you and your unofficial grandma for a few weeks). Though we will most likely end up in one

  232. Manna from Heaven

    “For what it’s worth, when Genghis Khan’s armies conquered Baghdad, they exterminated the entire Muslim population of the city. ”

    Yep, exactly my point about unjust war, murder, genocide, and all things evil.

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  235. Bob Wallace

    “And what is your explanation for why chasing bad boys is so common? Are they all insane?”

    Drama and excitement. I’ve seen this in the females in my own family, just not with other females in my life.

    Many women are drama queens. They often end up getting divorced.

  236. Milena

    “I would say she is also an alpha widow in addition to a gold-digging whore ”
    Wow, just wow.
    What happened to “those who are without sins, throw the first stone”? You threw a lot of stones here. I’ll definitely not be visiting this blog again.

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