Ladies: it is older women, gay men, and feminists who tell you it’s great to cut your hair short. What conclusion can you draw from that?

Yesterday we went to the University of Michigan game against Nebraska at the Big House.  We got there early to hang out with my husband’s family and friends for some pre-game tailgating.  Husband and I took a walk and noticed a big group of men all gathered around something.  Wondering what that was all about, we wandered over to have a look: 20131109_132601

Oh look, it is the University of Michigan Women’s Dance Team.

20131109_132157

The older woman on the stage was interviewing several of the girls, and I am sure it was the fascinating story of Chelsea from Grosse Pointe, Michigan’s plans to major in Electrical Engineering that was holding all the men in thrall.

No doubt this man was busily snapping pictures of the chiquitas because of his patriarchal social conditioning:

20131109_132224

Ladies, let’s take one more look at the lovely young women.  Do you notice one of the features they all have in common?

20131109_132152

Not a single one of them is sporting bobbed hair or a pixie cut; they’ve all got hair past their shoulders.  Of course, I’m sure when the patriarchy is smashed, men will stop liking long hair on women. (Pssst: young women, this is why middle-aged women and feminists tell you to cut your hair in the first place; because they are so jealous of all that yummy male attention that you get and they don’t.)

Anyway, yesterday Lindy West posted an article on Jezebel, Dudes Are Such Whiny Baby Liars About Girls With Short Hair

Hahaahaaaaahahahaahhaahahahaaha, oh, dudes. It seems like every few weeks some goofball on the internet writes another “article” about how evil women are ruining their crotch-feels by cutting off our long, sexual hair. Leaving aside the fact that YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE’S HAIR NEITHER BELONGS TO YOU NOR EXISTS FOR THE PURPOSES OF YOUR BONER, to those dudes I would just like to say: looolooololololoolololllllooooolol, you fucking LIARS.

What she’s upset about is an article published at Total Frat Move, Why Girls Should Not Cut Their Hair Short:

None of us grew up looking at or imagining ourselves with women rocking a solid scissor fade. Still, over the past couple of years, there has been a disturbing trend spreading across gender lines: pixie cuts…

If you have any female interaction on social media, whatsoever, you may also have seen Jennifer Lawrence’s new ‘do. Though every chick on the planet begs “Can we just be best friends? Why is she perfect?”, you’d only bang her if she lost ten pounds. Now, shedding some lbs. might not even do it. Lawrence didn’t go full-on pixie short, but the results are equally disastrous.

Should have cut her dessert instead.

Since most girls “OMG, WANT TO BE” Jennifer Lawrence, I fear this has the potential to kick off a horrible reactionary chain of events amongst the female populace. Girls, I’m here to save you from yourself. If you’re a woman in your prime, short hair is an overwhelmingly bad idea.

Here’s what Jennifer Lawrence looked like with long hair:

jennifer lawrence long hair

And here is the new short-haired version:

Jennifer Lawrence

Now, Jezebel is owned by Gawker Media, and interestingly, on Gawker’s site last week one presumably male columnist, Rich Juzwiak, wrote:

Oh God Jennifer Lawrence what are you doing with a Kate Gosselin-circa-2009 haircut?

So it seems even male feminists don’t dig short-dos on the ladies, whatever Lindy West may say.

The Editor-in-Chief of Cosmopolitan, a woman’s magazine that is equal parts fashion and raunch, should be an expert on what makes women look hot, right?  In Why every woman should try the cropped cut, she explains what she tells all the young ladies who ask her about cutting their hair short:

People say to me, “Oh, I wish I could do it.” And I say, “Why don’t you?”

Here is the haircut Ms. Cosmo Editor sports:

She goes on for a bit about how much better Miley Cyrus and Pamela Anderson look now that they’ve chopped off their tresses:

Celebrities Visit Broadway - November 18, 2012

Notice that this is an older woman encouraging young women to chop off their hair.  You know who else often tries to slickly talk women into chopping off their hair, in addition to feminists and older women?  Gay men.  An Elle magazine writer recently wrote that she cut her long hair short because as she’s trying to make it in the fashion industry, it’s important for her to

have a gay man in a perfectly tailored Thom Browne jacket matter-of-factly say, “Chic hair, girl” .

Ladies, let us review who lies to women about how great they look when they chop off their hair: gay men, older women, and feminists.  Do you suppose there could be any ulterior motive there? *cough cough* reducing the competition for male attention *cough cough*

In Women: don’t cut your damn hair, Vox Day puts it on the bottom shelf:

…if you’re a woman, let your locks flow long and don’t trust any woman who encourages you to chop them off.

Well, but he is from the manosphere, and everybody knows those guys are underbelly-dwelling misogynists, anyway, right?  Ha.  Well, let’s check out what some of the guys on the type of site my husband frequents say.  The men of the AR.15.com forum write:

Duckbutter (7/2/2013 2:33:32 PM) wonders:

I don’t get it. I go shopping with my wife and see so many women with a mans short hair cut. I don’t mean the cutesy pixie cut but almost a Moe (3 stooges) cut.Did they just completely give up trying to look attractive to their husbands or anyone else for that matter? I know when I walk buy I just want to say..”Excuse me sir” whooops! …They have to know they look like men after the hair cut…

Does that haircut = I know he has to cheat but it’s ok cause I’m busy?

killingmachine123 (7/2/2013 2:34:27 PM) responds:

Because they …no longer care to look attractive for anyone.

FreeBear (7/2/2013 2:39:43 PM) obviously has a preference, too:

My supervisor recently cut her hair short. She now has a striking resemblance to that thing known as “Janet Napolitano”. 

So apparently it really is all men - from your average football fan, to guys on gun forums, to the diverse men in the manosphere, to the jerkwad guys at Total Frat Move, and even to male feminists for Pete’s sake – who prefer longer hair on women.

Look, I don’t care what you do with your hair.  No one else cares what women in general do with their hair either.  It’s her head, it’s her choice, and she can cut her hair short if she really wants to.   But what women don’t get to do is dictate that all men shall now find short-haired females attractive because virtually none of them do.  The guy at Total Frat Move at whom Lindy West was so enraged wasn’t even being particularly jerky about it; he was just saying guys find long hair more attractive on women.  He wasn’t asking to have short hair made illegal or anything.  Lindy West’s rant is really about the fact that men have preferences at all and dare to state them.  And if there is one thing that feminists are adamant about, it is that men are not allowed to express preferences about what they find attractive in women.

Here is a bit of honest advice, lurking female readers:

Single girls: don’t cut your hair short if you want to attract a man to marry.

Married ladies: don’t cut your hair short once you’ve hooked a man and he’s stuck with you.

Anyone who tells you that women look great with short hair almost certainly has an ulterior motive and not your best interests in mind.

361 thoughts on “Ladies: it is older women, gay men, and feminists who tell you it’s great to cut your hair short. What conclusion can you draw from that?

  1. Jenny

    I am trying to grow my hair as I really think it looks feminine. It is a couple of inches past my shoulders right now and I am attempting to get it into good condition as it is fine (but there is a lot of it) and it tangles a lot.

    Even though my hair isn’t long I have already had some people say I should cut it – into a bob …… eeek! – and that it is easier and more stylish to have shorter hair. I never really paid much attention to it before but a lot of the women that I work with (the older ones) have short hair.

    Any hair care tips? :) x

  2. Lori Alexander

    I am an older woman who would never encourage young women to cut their hair short. I am 55 years old and my hair is below my shoulder, even though I have heard many times a woman should have short hair after 50, or maybe it was 40. I will never forget a time when I was a senior in high school. A male friend of mine was bemoaning the fact that all the girls cut their hair when they went off to college.

  3. songtwoeleven

    Jenny: I grew out my hair from an inverted bob cut six years ago; it is now waist length and my husband adores it! I would suggest that you wash only every other day; it is destructive to use too much shampoo. Let the natural oils saturate your hair. Brush minimally; it causes breakage. No ponytails while growing out – breakage. Get a good conditioner or use coconut oil with Vodka and leave in. Trim only the dead, split ends. Do NOT listen to a stylist who constantly wants to lob off two inches at a cut…your hair grows about 1/2 inch per month. Try not to blow-dry and especially not flat-iron – embrace your natural texture. Above all, as you have already discovered, do NOT listen to the shorn harpies about the length of your hair…Ever.

  4. songtwoeleven

    Oh, and Jenny…if you are coloring with artificial color now, consider stopping. Are you married? Unless your husband wants you to color artificially, if you are trying to grow, the coloring process will hinder growth a bit and add a coarser texture, discouraging you from growing. Just a thought. It’s easy for me to say, since my husband forbids me to color anymore, and I’m a natural ginger with streaks of crazy strawberry-silver around my temples at age 43. But it’s a thought.

  5. James A. Donald

    You neglected to mention that Saint Paul both commanded long hair for women, and commanded it be covered in church.

    I would assume that both measures are intended to help husbands refrain from straying.

    [ssm: Good point.]

  6. The Karamazov Idea

    Frat move had some oddly cogent thoughts on it. Whenever I see short hair defended, usually pictures of gorgeous celebrities who cut their hair short are trotted out to defend the concept. The problems with this are twofold: 1. We’re already dealing with people who are attractive in high quantities. Most have symmetrical faces, small noses, high cheek-bones and small jaws and do not require hair to draw attention away from any of these things. 2. No celebrity female, none at all, looks better with short hair than with well-groomed locks. Bronan made that point on his now-defunct blog.

    From personal experience, I have never witnessed a woman increase in attractiveness when she cut her hair. One of my old friends cut all of her 2.5 feet of curls off. She went from gorgeous to being somebody you’d pass on the street and wouldn’t look twice at. I have another very good friend who had a very short bobby cut in college. It’s been 4 years. She grew out her hair and is now getting a lot of attention from a lot of men. She noticed the difference too.

    I knew another girl that chopped hers off and not 10 minutes later she was on facebook posting how much she regretted it and how terrible it looked. She was genuinely emotionally upset to the equivalent of the feeling a guy would get if his beloved car got totaled. Most women find flaws in their appearances they never knew they had when they chop off their hair. The only response is to weep bitterly like this girl, or kick the hamster into maximum overdrive and declare that she “pulls it off” nicely and even if she doesn’t, she doesn’t care if other people find her attractive or not (as she fishes in her purse for her makeup).

    As a final example, when I first was in college there was this one girl I got stuck in a group project with. She was unremarkable looking, but certainly not unattractive. She also was in good shape. She’d fall into the category of “plain but not homely.” She transferred schools and the next time I saw her was 3 years later at a party with some friends. She had decided she was a lesbian and she chopped all of her hair off as is trendy with many SWPL women in school. I had never noticed exactly how crooked her nose was or how pronounced her chin was until she hacked off her blond hair. Long hair is camouflage for facial chaos. It also hides weight better. I’m not sure if this particular girl picked up any or it just appeared to hang more awkwardly without long hair. All I know is I think women tend to underestimate how much hair helps in their appearances.

    [ssm: TKI! So good to see you! And good advice in your comment, too.]

  7. songtwoeleven

    We have a feminist neighbor who is an RN in a dementia unit. She tells me that her elderly female residents call her “That Boy”. She sports a pixie and has a boyish frame. It’s hilarious.

  8. Stingray

    SSM,

    You picked a heck of a topic for not wanting to moderate. ;) Vox still gets nasty comments on his hair post.

    Argan oil, ladies. It’s is excellent for your hair and unlike most oils (coconut oil is good, but you can’t leave too much in your hair at all), your hair actually soaks it up. I have been meaning to write a post for months at Girls Being Girls about curly hair and I really need to get that done. Jenny, if you have curly to wavy hair, I will do my best to get that up this week.

  9. songtwoeleven

    Stingray, I wanna’ read that curly hair post! I have curly, thick, coarse locks. I have only used Argan oil blended with other oils. What brand is best?

  10. Stingray

    Jenny, if you have curly to wavy hair, I will do my best to get that up this week.

    Wow, two thoughts just mishmashed into one. I meant to say, come check it out. For anyone interested I will try to get it up this week.

    songtwoeleven,

    I’m not sure what brand is best. I get mine off of amazon and go for the pure oil. I usually get this one. It got really good reviews and when I first started buying it it was cheaper than many of the others. It has gone up in price, but since I only *wash* my hair twice a week, it lasts a long time.

    I will really try to get that post up soon. It is very easy to write, but fairly long. I just need to sit down and do it.

  11. FuzzieWuzzie

    Over all of history, the only time that short hair on women was fashionable was the “flapper” era of the 1920s. That was an anomoly. There seems to be a lot more latitude extended to men in this regard and, sometimes, requirements. Remember Samson?
    Has anyone noticed that Lindy West has cut her hair? I don’t think so….
    There was a social convention for Victorian women to pin their hair up. She would let her hair down before bedtime and this was a real turn on for Victorian men.
    To this end, any woman considering cutting her hair should spend a day out with it pinned up and see the reactions. Growing it back takes a long time.

    SSM, a light hearted post is a good idea. Too mant heavy threads ahs affected Farm Boy to the point where he asked for bear videos on the Open Conversation thread. It was getting to me too.

  12. sunshinemary Post author

    My hair isn’t super long, just past my shoulders. You don’t have to have waist length hair (unless you are married and that’s how your man wants it). Anything below your shoulders is usually enough to add significantly to your beauty.

  13. lovelyleblanc7

    My friend was trying to say I should cut my hair into a bob! She said I had the “facial structure” for it. Nope! I prefer to keep my hair long with bangs, thank you!

    [ssm: Your hair is super cute; don't cut it!]

  14. redpillsetmefree

    Question: What’s the equivalent trait in men? What is it that a man could change about his physical appearance that has such a drastic negative effect on his attractiveness to his wife, or women in general?

    [ssm: Maybe obesity, but not really. For men, it's not nearly as much about physical looks as it is about having a dominant masculine frame (what gets called "alpha" traits). Of course, looks still come into it somewhat, and women love muscles on a man, but it's not as striking an effect as long versus short hair on women.]

  15. rosa377

    Seriously, Jennifer Lawrence looks SO BAD with that haircut. And not bad as in good. Few women can pull off a short do without looking like a dorky soccer mom. The positive comments I’ve heard about her haircut come mostly from women, rebuking men for hating her hair.

    Anyway, I think we should look beyond the mere act of cutting her hair and take a look at the spirit that lies behind their decision to do such a thing: good ol’ fashioned rebellion at having to appeal to any man. I’m not saying every woman who cuts her hair is operating in a spirit of rebellion, but this attitude should be taken into account.

  16. FuzzieWuzzie

    Songtwoeleven,
    Tell your neighbor to use this line: “I’m an elf but, I ate all my green vegtables growing up.”
    Even though she is a feminist, I do feel sorry for her working with dementia.

  17. sunshinemary Post author

    Oh, and one thing that really intrigued me from the Vox Day post was this:

    The second reason is that women are much more concerned about hair health than men are. So, as they age and their hair turns grey and loses texture and body, they believe they will look better if they just cut it off. Which is ridiculous, at least as far as men are concerned…

    The unpleasant, but observable fact is that post-menopausal women who cut their hair off tend to look like short, squatty men, even if they elect to rock that inexplicable blue puff perm on top that is apparently meant to signify female status…Guys of any age don’t care how healthy a woman’s hair happens to look if she looks like a freaking man; it’s not as if men turn gay because Matt Damon’s coiffure has a healthy, well-conditioned shine.

    I have noted before that elderly women can wear short hair if they are still feminine in dress and behavior. But what if they aren’t feminine in the rest of their appearance?

    I actually know someone for whom this is the case, one of my husband’s aunts, who is around 78 years old. I wish I could post pictures, but I don’t have her permission to do so. She was pretty when younger but never wanted to marry. Once she hit middle age, she cut her hair into a lesbian-type buzz cut and always kept it that way. This was compounded by the fact that she dresses in mannish clothes and is very overweight. She is a very nice woman, but she was also quite unattractive.

    Two years ago, when I saw her at Thanksgiving, she had grown her grey hair down past her shoulders. Now, she had the same ugly man-clothes and she was still overweight, she wasn’t wearing any makeup, and she hadn’t styled her hair in anyway, but the effect upon her appearance was startling. She looked so much better, so much more feminine. You could actually tell she was a woman instead of mistaking her for an obese little man.

    I’m an average looking woman at best, but looking back at my 28-year-old self with short hair and my 44-year-old self with long(ish) hair, I think I look better now, despite the extra years that show on my face. Long hair is that important to a woman’s looks.

  18. songtwoeleven

    Fuzzie, that’s hilarious!

    I know, I once worked in a dementia unit, too. I was literally beaten, kicked, pinched, sat on, sh*t on, p*ssed on, cursed, hugged, kissed and thanked…by all the people with Alzheimer’s disease. All this while pregnant. I do feel for the feminist, too. But I still abhor her haircut.

  19. FuzzieWuzzie

    Rosa377, “Good old fashioned rebellion at having to appeal to any man”
    Nailed it!

    Farm Boy , Lindy didn’t cut her hair, as far as I know. She might do it the day she gives up M&Ms.

  20. Jenny

    @ songtwoeleven

    I wash my hair every day – I keep reading that it is bad for hair to do that but it suits mine! I don’t blow dry it though, rarely straighten it, and have only ever used semi permanent dyes on it so hopefully it balances out. I have been meaning to try coconut oil – going on the shopping list!

    @ Stingray

    My hair is wavy and holds a curl pretty well. I always wanted waist length curly hair when I was young but I would settle for a few inches longer than it is now with long layers!

    I have seen a lot of recommendations for Moroccan Oil – there are so many different oils and brands though. I have never heard that hair soaks up coconut oil though! Sounds like a bad thing! x

  21. songtwoeleven

    “Question: What’s the equivalent trait in men? What is it that a man could change about his physical appearance that has such a drastic negative effect on his attractiveness to his wife, or women in general?”

    Disclaimer: My husband is uber-alpha.

    Now, let me say, that even if a man has a spare tire, he’s still sexy if he’s confident and keeps his masculinity and mojo. If he fails to shave, or grows a straggly beard, he’s still sexy if he’s confident and keeps his masculinity and mojo. He can even get away with dressing sloppily on the weekends and at night if he’s confident. Heck, he can get away with periodic halitosis and body odor if he’s confident and keeps his masculinity and mojo.

    I would say the equivalent trait in men is losing their stones and morphing into Metrosexual in every way, but especially in attitude. Developing that soft, sing-song voice that Evangelical Preachers have on the Christian radio shows is utterly revolting. Failing to fight for what’s right is a libido killer. Basically, I think men can get away with much more in the area of the physical than women can, because men are visual creatures. The Herb that is married to the Pixied Feminist that lives next door is utterly the most unattractive man on the planet to me. (And to her, as evidenced by her attitude when he’s not around.)

    So, the answer is: be an Herb.

  22. songtwoeleven

    I’m sorry – correction – the Herb that is PARTNERED with the Pixied Feminist next door…

    My bad.

  23. sunshinemary Post author

    @ Rosa

    good ol’ fashioned rebellion at having to appeal to any man.

    Yes! I literally had that almost exact line in an earlier version of this essay but I edited it out because it was getting too long.

    If you look on tumblr for posts tagged #feminism, you will see that cutting one’s hair and shaving one’s legs are big issues that feminists rant on about. But why? If it’s just a matter of wanting to cut one’s hair, well, nothing is stopping a woman. Who’s going to care? No one.

    But cutting her hair isn’t what she wants, not really. What she wants is control. She wants to be able to control what men think and feel. She wants to be able to say, “I WILL cut my hair short and you WILL find it attractive. I know men hate it, but I will rebel against that and by sheer force of my hatred and rebellion, I will FORCE them to like it.”

    Also, middle-aged women cut their hair short specifically because they want their husbands to find them unattractive. They do so because they no longer wish to have sex with their husbands and hope that by making themselves ugly, the men will stop asking for it.

    Of course, as Zippy noted earlier, the men should stop asking for it.

  24. Stingray

    Jenny,

    It’s actually the argan oil that soaks into your hair and it is very good for it! Coconut oil it also very good for your hair, but doesn’t soak in. The benefit of the oil soaking into the hair is that is moisturizes it. For anyone with curly hair, this is a good thing as curly usually equates to dry.

    [ssm: I use Moroccan Oil. It's a little pricey, but it works well and smells heavenly.]

  25. Stingray

    redpillsetmefree,

    Songtwoeleven nailed it (you two almost have the same avatars). Herb is the equivalent. Women don’t much care what you look like when you are masculine enough. Looks might get your foot in the door, but it’s masculinity that we drool over.

  26. songtwoeleven

    Stingray:

    What you said. I’ve shared before that Mister looks almost exactly like this:

    http://www.daveramsey.com/specials/welcome

    Now, I personally think Dave Ramsey is a handsome man. But that’s me; that’s not universally all women who find Dave Ramsey (or Mister who looks just like him) hawt!

    It’s the mojo, baby…

  27. lovelyleblanc7

    @SSM: Thanks :) Thankfully, my mom discouraged it saying I should always keep my hair long!

    @Redpillssetmefree: Growing an unmanageable beard. Nothing wrong with facial hair, but when it is like a bush on a man’s face…no! That has to go! XD

  28. Cail Corishev

    Yes, the male equivalent of a woman cutting her hair short would have to be in his attitude. Maybe something like: he starts coming home from work each night, putting his head in her lap, and crying (full-on snotty bawling) about how mean his boss is and how no one at work likes him.

    That might lower his attractiveness as much as the average woman buzzing off her hair.

  29. FuzzieWuzzie

    SSM, per your comment at 3:52pm, is it that feminists expect men to be at the mercy of their own libido? That we are to mere slaves to the divinity of the female?
    They must be smoking some prime ganja!

    Songtwoeleven,
    It occurs to me me that your neighbor’s short hair might be a concession to occupational safety. Alzheimer’s patients can get violent and, with short hair, she might be better able to escape their clutches.
    You do have interesting neighbors.

  30. Deep Strength

    I looooooove long, lush hair. Mid-scapular length is great. Easily +1-2 attractiveness points for me.

  31. ANorthernObserver

    I knew a woman who wore her hair down to her waist – with her figure, height, and the way she dressed – watching her walk was such an intoxicating experience, I’d compare it to walking into the restaurant of a master chef, taking a deep breath, and being completely batched in the sensation.

    Then one day she chopped it off to shoulder-length, and with it went most of what made her so attractive and intoxicating. I felt like wearing two black armbands for the longest time afterwards.

    (Side note – since comment notification has been turned off – how do people keep track of what’s new on these threads?)

  32. RJ

    My girlfriend cut 3 inches off her hair, then came over to my place and cried for an hour. I asked her “Why are you crying? I’m the one who has to find a new girlfriend.”

  33. Calliso

    Personally I think I look best with hair shoulder length or maybe a bit shorter. My personal opinion is those are lengths that look good on most women. Most women cannot pull off the super short looks. Unless maybe you are talking about old women, but even then there is a difference between an age appropriate short hair cut that looks nice and one that just looks like you cut off all your hair for the sake of a trendy look. On the other hand I feel that a lot of women can’t pull off very long hair either. I mean unless you either have hair that naturally looks like it came out of pantene commercial or spend a ton of time on your hair *and likely use a lot of hairspray and other productd* really long hair doesn’t always look that good. I had pretty long hair in elementary school and it was pretty but holy crap was it a PAIN. So we decided to get it cut and I probably did get it cut too short *of course that is also because the hairdresser screwed up and had to cut like an extra 3 inches or more off..* But over all I am glad I did it! I am actually overdue for a haircut right now my husband says lol.

  34. The Karamazov Idea

    @redpillsetmefree and @SSM

    I was about to reply….muscles. A simple trait that is most-often associated with masculinity that a man could lose and lose esteem with quickly goes to physique when I think about it. I’d argue it’s more about build than weight, although it’s relatively impossible to be obese and have a some good musculature.

    If I had to conjure an image of an impotent man it would be either a very thin skin-and-bones type or a soft chubby slothlike man. Even Henry VIII had muscles from the fighting he did (back when English royalty were expected to be physically present in battle). A lack of physical power seems to me to be a comparable delineator of lack of health and masculinity as short hair is to women for health and femininity.

    Also, thanks for the kind words.

  35. earl

    Cutting your hair is a form of birth control. Samson lost his strength…and ladies will lose the only strength they have too.

    Sidenote: I’m not sure if it makes you more manly to grow your beard hair out…but that’s what I’m doing. I want to look a little more like my avatar Max Kolbe.

  36. Calliso

    “My hair isn’t super long, just past my shoulders. You don’t have to have waist length hair (unless you are married and that’s how your man wants it). Anything below your shoulders is usually enough to add significantly to your beauty”

    Well even if your man wants your hair that long it may not be possible. I could be wrong but not everyone’s hair will grow that long. I mean mine for instance seems to stop at maybe a few inches below my shoulders. Of course it is possible it is just growing super super super slow but at that point my husband is usually like omg get a dang haircut!!! :P

  37. earl

    I’ve also heard the reasoning to cut the hair was because the gal had a baby. I’m not seeing the reasoning other than they are afraid the kid will have so much strength to tug the hair hard.

  38. sunshinemary Post author

    I’ve also heard the reasoning to cut the hair was because the gal had a baby. I’m not seeing the reasoning other than they are afraid the kid will have so much strength to tug the hair hard.

    Horse pucky! Horse pucky, I say!

    When I worked in the public schools, I worked with the most seriously disabled children. I had children on my caseload who were very, very cognitively impaired, and I’m telling you, they pulled hair way worse than any baby. You develop fast reflexes and learn to dodge their grasp. One in a while they get ahold of your hair and usually one of the para-eds has to get the hand lotion and lude up their fingers and your hair; their hand will slide right out of your hair then.

    But a little baby? All you do is lightly rub the inside of their wrist with your finger and their hands reflexively ungrasp. A woman who cuts her hair short when she has a baby is just using the baby as an excuse.

  39. songtwoeleven

    earl: every time I’ve had one of our babies, the Girls have gone into overdrive about me cutting my hair. The reason? Hair tourniquets. You know, when a long hair wraps around a baby’s finger or penis and causes blood loss and tissue damage or amputation.

    I hear of THAT happening all the time, don’t you??

  40. Stingray

    Song,

    My husband shaves his head bald and has a nice thick goatee. Also, Dave Ramsey is a very good looking man. You and I have the same taste in men. :)

    I looooooove facial hair. Always have.

  41. earl

    “The reason? Hair tourniquets. You know, when a long hair wraps around a baby’s finger or penis and causes blood loss and tissue damage or amputation.

    I hear of THAT happening all the time, don’t you??”

    And I thought I had a weird imagination.

  42. Lurky

    Oh, the hair, the hair! Forever the hair.
    Guys, take a long wig, 2 slabs of liver, a jar of vaseline, and two “squishy” balls and buy “it” a ring! (I kid, I kid).

    I am cursed with very fine textured, wispy hair. Long bobs only here — longer hair looks scraggly and ratty, no matter how much product, how much fluffing, etc. Even tried taking those Viviscal pills at $50 per box; made my seborrheic dermatitis come back with a vengeance! The spirit was willing, but the flesh let me down.

  43. Ashley

    I don’t think anyone is demanding men to find all short haired ladies attractive. Saying so is being quite dramatic, unless someone can link to a page where feminists are supposedly saying that verbatim. Now, I think being attracted to each other is important in a loving relationship, but is a man really going to be crazy about a woman with her longer hair, love her as his partner… and then suddenly not be able to get it up just because she decides to cut her hair short? Does that actually happen?

  44. earl

    I live in one of those colder states so the beard is not only to look good…but to prevent frostbite in the winter.

    I would be curious to see the spread on it. Seems like women either love it or hate it.

  45. Ashley

    I prefer clean shaven men, almost always. Am I less attracted to men with beards? Yep. But I sure as hell wouldn’t consider that a deal breaker. And I sure as hell wouldn’t expect any man to shave for me if that’s not what he wanted. I’d feel shallow to ask any man of that.

  46. Calliso

    “I am cursed with very fine textured, wispy hair. Long bobs only here — longer hair looks scraggly and ratty, no matter how much product, how much fluffing, etc. Even tried taking those Viviscal pills at $50 per box; made my seborrheic dermatitis come back with a vengeance! The spirit was willing, but the flesh let me down.”

    Yeah like I was saying before not everyone can pull of long hair. You have to have the right hair type to do so. Also even if one has the right hair when they are young after years of product use and well just age the same person that may have been able to pull of mid back length hair in their teens and 20s might find that once they hit their 30s-40s that their hair no longer looks quite so nice and they need to chop some of it off. Now that doesn’t mean they should go for a super short bob or a pixie cut both of which look awful on a lot/most women but like I was saying before shoulder length maybe a bit longer does look good on a lot of women at least from personal observation.

  47. FuzzieWuzzie

    Hair tourniquets??? That has to be best example of “hamsterbatics” that I’ve heard yet.

    Ashley, you aren’t about to cut your hair? Please, don’t.

    Earl, for beards, maybe Edwardian length. I think Civil War veteren length would be too much.
    Civil War veteren length would look like the guys on the cough drop box.

  48. sunshinemary Post author

    Ashley

    I don’t think anyone is demanding men to find all short haired ladies attractive. Saying so is being quite dramatic, unless someone can link to a page where feminists are supposedly saying that verbatim.

    Since you must not have read the OP, I’ll simplify it for you.

    Some frat guy: “None of us grew up looking at or imagining ourselves with women rocking a solid scissor fade. …If you’re a woman in your prime, short hair is an overwhelmingly bad idea.”

    Lindy West: “It seems like every few weeks some goofball on the internet writes another “article” about how evil women are ruining their crotch-feels by cutting off our long, sexual hair….YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE’S HAIR NEITHER BELONGS TO YOU NOR EXISTS FOR THE PURPOSES OF YOUR BONER”

    Translation:

    Man: Men prefer women with long hair.

    Feminist: You have no right to have an opinion on what you find attractive about a woman!

    You know what you’ll never see on this site? Me writing posts complaining about what frat guys do and do not find attractive in women. Do you know why? Because I do not care what frat guys think of me. I don’t COMPLAIN about what they like in women because I do not CARE what they like in women. The fact that feminists become so enraged about what men think of women belies the fact that they very much do care what men think about how they look. And if you care what someone thinks of you, then you’d probably better listen to what they like and try to do that. Screaming about how they shouldn’t like what they like will get you nowhere.

  49. Ashley

    “Feminist: You have no right to have an opinion on what you find attractive about a woman!”

    She didn’t say he had no right to have an opinion. She said it was irrelevant.

  50. redpillsetmefree

    but is a man really going to be crazy about a woman with her longer hair, love her as his partner… and then suddenly not be able to get it up just because she decides to cut her hair short? Does that actually happen?

    Well, that’s extreme.
    The idea is more that the level of attraction that a man feels will be so greatly reduced until it will be tangible. And again, don’t project a woman’s experience of attraction onto a man….there’s absolutely no way we could make you understand what a man’s attraction feels like, but it’s not primarily rooted in who she is, as a woman’s is for a man.

  51. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 5:16 pm
    “Feminist: You have no right to have an opinion on what you find attractive about a woman!”
    She didn’t say he had no right to have an opinion. She said it was irrelevant.

    A man’s opinion is irrelevant to what he has an opinion about? Only a hamster could come up with that one!

    [ssm: LOL, precisely.]

  52. earl

    How much attraction would a women feel to a man if he decided to quit his steady job and work for a place that has half the pay because it is easier to work with?

  53. rosa377

    @SSM “cut their hair short specifically because they want their husbands to find them unattractive.”

    Yes, I almost wrote the something similar in regards to Jennifer Lawrence, but didn’t because I thought it might sound far-fetched(given that I don’t know her). Cutting the hair to such an extremely short length is also a way of saying “leave me alone” to men in general. They resent the male attention, resent men being men, yet ironically, still want men to find them attractive.

  54. redpillsetmefree

    Cutting the hair to such an extremely short length is also a way of saying “leave me alone” to men in general. They resent the male attention, resent men being men, yet ironically, still want men to find them attractive.

    Women want male everything, but only on women’s terms.
    Men wanting female anything on a man’s terms is illegal at every level.

  55. songtwoeleven

    stingray: Yes to the facial hair. Especially the goatee, but in the winter, if it morphs into a full beard, all the better. I had no idea how I would enjoy a full beard on Mister until he offered to grow it. It’s amazingly sexy. The only facial hair that is decidedly NOT sexy to me is the “soul patch”…just grow something ELSE already…what IS the soul patch anyway???

  56. nightskyradio

    SSM – Anyone who tells you that women look great with short hair almost certainly has an ulterior motive and not your best interests in mind

    Julian O’Dea just mailed you a pair of scissors. :)

  57. songtwoeleven

    elenor: long gray hair is lovely, IMHO, and also in my husband’s mind. That was the catalyst in him asking me to grow my hair and quit coloring. He hated the “roots”. I was coloring my hair, and since my hair grows quickly, the roots appeared almost immediately. He found this revolting. I stopped coloring and started growing, and found a website called “going gray looking great” which really helped with the process. I have a lot of “gray” around the face and temples and other women who are younger always accuse me of paying for highlights. Only pixie-haired women try and criticize my hair. It’s funny; the women with long hair never criticize my hair, and I’m “old” by the world’s standards – too “old” for long hair! Whatever.

  58. Carnivore

    A woman with long, flowing hair is always a beautiful sight to be hold. A woman’s long hair rolled up into some sort of do for more formal occasions is also very attractive. Never could figure out why a woman would want to chop off her crowning glory.

    Earl, don’t give up too early. Besides, the longer it is, the more creative a guy can get. ;)
    http://jefffsbeardboard.yuku.com/reply/310562/3-year-long-goatee-update-break-out-the-yardstick#reply-310562

    ssm: Oh my gosh, that picture is great! When I showed it to my husband, he said, “He is obviously self-employed.” LOL, I have to post it:

  59. The Karamazov Idea

    As for beards, look what we have here

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/10/30/red_sox_vs_cardinals_in_the_world_series_of_facial_hair_everyone_loses.html

    Free Northerner linked this on Lightning Round. In the article, an obnoxious feminist lays down the law on what men should and shouldn’t do with regards to their appearance.

    https://twitter.com/amandahess

    That’s the author. Notice she’s “rocking” one of the most appalling bowl-cuts I’ve ever seen, and I grew up in the 90′s. I’d also like to take the time to note she’s absolutely dead wrong about beards. Short hair on women is detestable to men and demonstrably so. Beards? Women adore them. Around this time of year, I’m always in the fur. I laugh every time a woman remarks “you should shave this” even as she takes the opportunity to reach a hand out and run it through the beard. The hamster is strong, but actions speak louder than words. Chicks dig thick beards. No coworker or woman at a party has ever run a hand across my clean-shaven chin and remarked on how manly and smooth it is.

  60. ANorthernObserver

    A woman with long hair who pins it up and lets it down just for her guy would be even more appealing. He knows what’s “inside that pin-up” and that it’s for his eyes only.

  61. Farm Boy

    “Ladies, what if you husband came home and announced he shortened his dick in half? You’d be totally cool with that right?”

    That depends on whether she is in “duty sex” mode or not

  62. Elenor

    @Calliso
    Oh my goodness! That’s not me in the picture I linked. She is a model called Yasmina Rossi. I’m a bit more average looking ;)

    @songtwoelewen
    I stopped coloring my hair nearly two years ago at my husbands request. I’m not forty yet and have past shoulderlength silver hair now… The funny thing is women ignore it while men compliment me :)

  63. earl

    Other than trimming around the edges I’ve let mine grow out since the middle of September….and it is really starting to look good. I’m curious to see what it will look like if I don’t touch it by say January.

  64. Ashley

    “A man’s opinion is irrelevant to what he has an opinion about? Only a hamster could come up with that one!”

    No. If you don’t understand the difference between the two statements and how mary’s translation was a misrepresentation of what Lindy actually stated, then I don’t know what else to tell you. I can explain it for you, but I can’t understand it for you.

    [ssm: My translation was accurate, but you are attempting to reframe. Unfortunately for you, most people here are experts at spotting a feminist reframe.]

  65. Calliso

    @Calliso
    “Oh my goodness! That’s not me in the picture I linked. She is a model called Yasmina Rossi. I’m a bit more average looking ;)

    @songtwoelewen
    I stopped coloring my hair nearly two years ago at my husbands request. I’m not forty yet and have past shoulderlength silver hair now… The funny thing is women ignore it while men compliment me :)

    Oops hehe! thought you were posting a picture of yourself. Anyway I hope it all goes well for you. When I was visiting my mom last she says she would like to stop coloring but her hair is still in that going grey but its not all grey stage and we both agreed that doesn’t look good.

  66. sunshinemary Post author

    @ NSR

    LOL, I love Stephan Pastis. And we are actually going to the U of M / OSU game on November 30th. No doubt we’ll be freezing our hinies off.

  67. Farm Boy

    Feminist: You have no right to have an opinion on what you find attractive about a woman!

    You know what you’ll never see on this site? Me writing posts complaining about what frat guys do and do not find attractive in women

    You have HHG to take care of you. Lindy has to make money by being a professional Feminist in order to put M&Ms on the table.

  68. FuzzieWuzzie

    As a professional model, that explains the confidence Yasmina Rossi displays. The confidence is a more powerful attactant than her hair but, the hair looks great.

    Elenor, I know why the women are ignoring you. They’re JEALOUS.

    Ashley, while a woman’s appearance is totally within her control, men do have preferences. It’s great when they coincide. Btw, we do have a lot of fun here at Lindy’s expense. I don’t think she minds too much.

  69. Elspeth

    I agree with this in general, but I also couldn’t help but think of Julian O’Dea (aka David Collard) and Alte’s husband. Men who like short hair tend to feel very strongly about it and their wives should submit to them.

  70. Farm Boy

    Feminism: Waging a Detailed War on Women and Blaming it on Men.

    It helps that the guys are playing a “prevent defense”

  71. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    “A man’s opinion is irrelevant to what he has an opinion about? Only a hamster could come up with that one!”

    No. If you don’t understand the difference between the two statements and how mary’s translation was a misrepresentation of what Lindy actually stated, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

    Lindy is as bad at rational arguments as she is clueless. Men who express an opinion about how women wear their hair is relevant as an expression of what they prefer and all the shaming language Lindy and her ilk make ignore reality and biology.

    Having said that, women – including Lindy – are free to disregard those opinions as un-important to their decision making and thus render it “irrelevant” for the purpose of how they decide to wear their hair. However, if a woman wants attract a man, or get a ‘rise’ out of a guy she has, and long hair helps accomplish that goal, then a woman’s hair length absolutely exists in part to help her realize her relationship goals.

    I can explain it for you, but I can’t understand it for you.

    Oh my, are you calling me stupid? Does this mean we’re in a relationship or something?

  72. ANorthernObserver

    [ssm: My translation was accurate, but you are attempting to reframe. Unfortunately for you, most people here are experts at spotting a feminist reframe.]

    Yep. She’s a failed “Lindy lite”

  73. The Real Peterman

    ” What is it that a man could change about his physical appearance that has such a drastic negative effect on his attractiveness to his wife, or women in general?”

    That’s easy: hair, also. If you don’t want women to find you attractive, go bald. That will take care of it!

  74. songtwoeleven

    Elspeth: Agreed regarding submitting to one’s own husband and his preferences. If he likes short hair, it ought to be short. Mister personally likes my hair very long – much longer than I would personally have preferred it when I first thought of the implications of growing it out. It takes work – if I neglect it and it begins to look shabby, then I have to cut off more than I’d like and wait for regrowth. Being pregnant so many times has helped tremendously, because the hair doesn’t shed when pregnant, and so it’s thick and lush. By the time it starts falling out en masse postpartum, I’ve been pregnant again – ha – so it’s been good for the hair! If I am not blessed with another baby after CJ, I wonder if my hair will thin, but even so, Mister likes it. It’s all about pleasing one’s own husband by submitting to his requests.

  75. Farm Boy

    That comic has no credibility. It is “The Ohio State University”, not “Ohio State” or “Ohio” as Brady Hoke says.

    We must not forget pretensiouness and all.

  76. Farm Boy

    Lindy is as bad at rational arguments as she is clueless.

    Kind of like Candy Crowley, who is as objective as she is beautiful.

  77. Treep

    For those of you who want to grow their hair, you might want to check out http://www.longhaircommunity.com. Some people there are a bit hair-crazy, but if you filter that out you can find a bunch of good advice for growing your hair.

    Also wearing your hair up in a bun or a braid helps reducing damage that’s done by hair rubbing on your clothes, getting caught in jewellery, etc.
    And letting your hair down for your guy can be really sexy.

    My hair is almost hip-length now. My fiancé loves it. And I love his beard, even though it’s a bit patchy (maybe even because it is). I fear he will have to shave it when he starts the job though.

  78. Frank

    While I realize there are different strokes for different folks, I wonder if the gals here have a consensus on facial hair. Because of my job I’m not allowed to sport a beard, but I can get away with 2, maybe 3 days of not shaving. There seems to be a line where it looks good on me, but then it starts to look like my face is just dirtied up with black soot. Between that and the flannel I typically like to wear I could easily look like I just came out of the woods after slaying 20 gullible teenagers with my pickaxe. I’m thinking 2 days between a shave is a good medium, since beyond that it starts to itch like a….

  79. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    I just had a horrible thought. What if Lindy gave up being a feminist, resolved to lose all the weight, and came here as a regular commenter to learn how to be a submissive wife?
    I guess we could start making fun of Amanda Marcotte.

  80. Lee Lee Bug

    Good post SSM.

    I would also add that most women look youger if they color their gray hair.

    I live in an area with lots of crunchy granola types. Many women keep their hair long, even as senior citizens. But, the majority let it go gray b/c they don’t want to expose themselves to the chemicals in hair dye.

    It can look pretty in some instances. My yoga teacher has thick, wavy silver gray hair down to her waist. She’s very tiny (maybe 4’11″ and 100 pounds) and she reminds me of the Little Mermaid b/c of the way her hair flows behind her. She’s beautiful. Eleanor’s hair in the photo upthread also looks gorgeous.

    Most women aren’t as lucky, especially if their gray hair has brassy yellow undertones. They could easily look a decade younger if they kept up their “natural” pre-gray color.

    My hair is starting to turn silver. It’s always been dark brown, almost black. I asked my husband if I should let it go natural and he said he’d prefer that I didn’t. Even though he’s quite frugal when it comes to our household expenses, he makes sure there’s money in our budget for me to have it colored every other month when I get it trimmed.

    Interestingly, I wore my hair in a chin-length bob when met. After learning that he preferred long hair, I let it grow long. By time we got married 18 months later, it was halfway down my back and has been long ever since.

    Regarding this being “no-shave November,” it’s a long tradition in my neck of the woods. November is deer hunting month here (it kicked off yesterday with youth weekend for kids up to 17) and not cutting your hair or beard is supposed to bring you good luck.

    Off-topic it’s been amazing deer season. Last month was bow season and nearly all of my hunter friends harvested something. Yesterday kicked off youth hunting week. By 10 a.m., my eldest daughter’s Facebook page had half a dozen posts of deer her school mates had harvested that morning.

  81. Calliso

    “While I realize there are different strokes for different folks, I wonder if the gals here have a consensus on facial hair. Because of my job I’m not allowed to sport a beard, but I can get away with 2, maybe 3 days of not shaving. There seems to be a line where it looks good on me, but then it starts to look like my face is just dirtied up with black soot. Between that and the flannel I typically like to wear I could easily look like I just came out of the woods after slaying 20 gullible teenagers with my pickaxe. I’m thinking 2 days between a shave is a good medium, since beyond that it starts to itch like a….”

    Despite what maybe a few posters seem to think no I doubt their is a concensus. Some women love a lot of facial hair some don’t. Personally I like a bit of facial hair but I find a full thick beard rather unattractive on a lot of men.

  82. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lee Lee Bug,
    Since deer season is in full swing, is it safe there for bears to visit?
    I don’t think disguising myself as an overgrown bunny rabbit will work.

  83. Calliso

    “Interestingly, I wore my hair in a chin-length bob when met. After learning that he preferred long hair, I let it grow long. By time we got married 18 months later, it was halfway down my back and has been long ever since.”

    Wow you either have some super fast growing hair or my hair is just really slow growing. Usually after I get a hair cut lets say to somewhere above shoulder length it grows pretty fast at first then once it hits just past my shoulders growth either slows down or stops.

  84. songtwoeleven

    “That’s easy: hair, also. If you don’t want women to find you attractive, go bald. That will take care of it!”

    Hmmm….I dunno’ about this…

    There’s George Costanza bald and then there’s Vin Diesel bald. Like stingray and I said earlier, George Costanza has no mojo. Therein lies the problem, not the lack of hair.

  85. Stingray

    If you don’t want women to find you attractive, go bald.

    Nope. Lots of women find bald men very attractive. I’m one of them.

    What’s not to like? Sarah’s Daughter has to know who this is without even looking. ;)

    But again, it’s so much to do with the masculinity because this just isn’t the same. Not a bad looking man, but not inherently masculine. That is what is missing.

  86. Stingray

    Songtwoeleven,

    I love full beards and would love my husband to grow one. They’re better than goatees. Though he doesn’t want to grow one because he doesn’t think it would go over well for work. I actually prefer them longer than the picture Earl posted above. Thick, full facial hair is the best.

  87. songtwoeleven

    Stingray:

    Yes, a full beard is so sexy. My husband is able to grow one, even where he works, but not too long. I liked the photos of fuller beards posted earlier by others.

    I think that we must like this because it so differentiates our husbands to us as decidedly male. The whole mess of feminism has attempted to turn men into women and women into men, and for those of us who are anti-feminists, everything that showcases the true differences between masculinity and femininity is very appealing and sexy.

  88. songtwoeleven

    Calliso: Calcium Magnesium Zinc tablets help the hair to grow longer, in my experience and that of my hairstylist. You can try that – they aren’t expensive, either.

  89. Julian O'Dea

    On the other hand, SSM, the occasional weird guy really does like short hair on women:

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/men-who-prefer-short-haired-women/

    Some weird guys like that even write entire essays on actresses famous for their cute bobbed hair:

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/what-happened-to-carolyn-farina/

    [ssm: Yes, I thought of you whilst I was writing this. You are the one in a million exception. In more ways than one, I suspect. :)]

  90. Calliso

    “Calliso: Calcium Magnesium Zinc tablets help the hair to grow longer, in my experience and that of my hairstylist. You can try that – they aren’t expensive, either”

    Ahh ok thanks. I am not actually trying to grow my hair out like I said in an earlier post I think it does look best about shoulder length maybe abit shorter. My husband seems to like it this length as well though he has never specifically told me what he prefers with hair other then the fact that he likes brunettes *which I am naturally lol* I was mainly curious as to how people were growing out their hair so easy/fast when my hair just seems to hit a certain length and growth all but halts.

  91. Farm Boy

    Yep. She’s a failed “Lindy lite”

    I do say; a Lindy-lite would be an improvement in more ways than one.

  92. Rollo Tomassi

    Annnnd speaking of old women defending the pixie cut, we cant forget this classic:

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/02/10/whatguyswant/defining-sexy/

    Ahhh the good old days when all Aunt Giggles needed for a 1700+ comment thread was to call me out. Poor girl.
    http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/08/sexy/

    Oh so attractive, no?
    http://i0.wp.com/www.hookingupsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Headshot.jpg

    [ssm: Is that Mrs. Walsh? She has such a cute face - beautiful eyes, perfect teeth, a pretty smile. That photo is a perfect example of a short haircut detracting from a woman's natural beauty.]

  93. Farm Boy

    I guess we could start making fun of Amanda Marcotte

    Indeed. With her it starts with the “man” in both her name and jaw.

  94. Amanda

    I didn’t get to read all the comments, but I totally second this post. I have kept my hair at least to my shoulders for years because of what the bible says about long hair for women. However, a couple of years ago I asked my husband directly what he preferred — shoulder length or longer hair, and of course he said the longer the better lol. So I’ve been growing it out and now it is about two inches above my bustline. My goal is the bustline or a pinch longer. I have been surprised to note how feminie and even sexy I feel now with my hair at a longer length. Even though it is more work to maintain (I have thick masses of hair; it takes awhile to style), I will probably never want to cut it any shorter again. It really is a woman’s glory.

  95. Bucho

    The street runs both ways….As a guy, there was a time I had gone 2 years without a haircut and I rather liked having the long, Led Zeppelin Era Robert Plant like wavy locks. But most women and hiring managers I know like to see men clean cut, and so, it came to the point where I had to get it cut short. I can’t recall any ladies telling me I should grow it back….

  96. Ashley

    * Your

    SSM, I’m not saying that Lindy couldn’t have worded her statement better, but as I read it originally, nowhere do I see if justifiable to have it translated to her saying that he has no right to an opinion. What you translated and what she said were two different concepts. Either you are deliberately trying to take what she said out of context and replace it with your own words in defense for your own anti-feminist agenda, or you genuinely didn’t understand what she was saying.

  97. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 7:15 pm
    “Oh my, are you calling me stupid?”
    No but tour comprehension skills need work, and this proves it in itself.

    An accusation w/no substantive arguments to support it, and can’t even get simple spelling right? Why should anyone believe anything you say?

    I’m thinking you’ve been around too many supplicating betas that would knuckle under this kind of nonsense.

  98. Ashley

    “Why should anyone believe anything you say?”

    I never said anyone should.

    “I’m thinking you’ve been around too many supplicating betas that would knuckle under this kind of nonsense.”

    Well sorry, but there’s no way for you to know that.

  99. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 7:27 pm
    “Why should anyone believe anything you say?”
    I never said anyone should.

    Then why did you write it, if not to have it believed?

    “I’m thinking you’ve been around too many supplicating betas that would knuckle under this kind of nonsense.”
    Well sorry, but there’s no way for you to know that.

    I’m extrapolating from your behavior. Please feel free to correct me instead of trying to deflect the conversation away from a clear answer.

  100. FuzzieWuzzie

    Julian O’Dea,
    It may not be the length hair so much , in your case, as the color of it. I have noticed that you do have a preference for brunettes. In a soci;al sense, this is good. Everyone has a differing preferecne and it all works out to the point where all the participants are accommodated.
    Hopefully.

  101. Rollo Tomassi

    @SSM, oh don’t be so hard on Ashley, it’s a hard job to be so in love with herself and be a feminist other feminists don’t want to play with:
    http://loveashley.net/

    Be sure not to miss my favorite catagories: Hoop Dancing and Confessions.

    [ssm: Hoop dancing? I don't even know what that is. But regardless, I shan't argue further with her. Everyone else can read what Lindy West wrote and understand it: men are not allowed to find sexy that which they find sexy because if they do, they are sexist and misogynistic.

    The weird thing is that I do not understand why this upsets them so much. I'm middle-aged, but it doesn't bother me to say that men find youth sexually appealing. It's just one of those facts of life. And youth isn't even something a woman can change, but hair length certainly is. Almost any woman, unless she has a medical condition, can have longish hair, so this is within almost every woman's reach. It can only be hatred and rebellion that would cause women like Lindy West to get so angry about this relatively innocuous male preference, one which is undoubtedly an inborn, genetic preference which men can't really help feeling.]

  102. Julian O'Dea

    Yes, FuzzieWuzzie, I do like brunettes. But not exclusively.

    SSM: “In more ways than one, I suspect.”

    Ha, what does that mean. pray tell?

    [ssm: No doubt in a number of areas you are exceptional, but the one that always springs to my mind is that you are able to view women exactly as we are, without false illusions, yet you never seem to be particularly angry or disappointed. It's really quite unusual. Most men are terribly disappointed when they realize that women do not live up the mythology that has been created about us. They expected better and now they are angry. You never seem so.]

  103. Ashley

    NorthernObserver, When I offer my thoughts, anyone is free to believe it or not. I’m not as concerned about anyone believing what I say as I am about trying to get people to think in a way in which they might not have before. I don’t expect anyone to believe what I believe. The choice is theirs.

  104. Carnivore

    ssm: Oh my gosh, that picture is great! When I showed it to my husband, he said, “He is obviously self-employed.” LOL, I have to post it:

    Actually, when I said “creative”, I meant the picture following that one. I agree with your husband, but with the second picture I’d say he probably doesn’t have a wife.

    Speaking of women with long hair, there’s always the Sutherland Sisters. When I googled to find a picture of them, I came across this most apropos web site for this discussion.
    http://www.rapunzelsdelight.com/thompson-collection/sutherland-sisters.html
    Click on a picture to enlarge. A bit much for my taste.

  105. tz2026

    @elenor – yes, absolutely. As long as it is long. 3 sigma or longer. Longer than the beards of duck dynasty.

    Shoulder length hair is sufficient. Long, long hair, to the abdomen, waist or longer makes a woman stand out and is visible from a longer distance.

    As to beards, or the negation, why would women be attracted to eunuchs? (oh, feminullification).

  106. Cail Corishev

    Ashley, you have to understand that these quotes don’t exist in a vacuum. This isn’t our first encounter with the ravings of Lindy West and company. We know what they’re about. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt and interpret everything they say in the best possible light, you’re welcome to be fooled. We know better, and interpret their words in context.

    Oh, beards are another issue that I’ve thought about posting on.

    There’s a study out there where they Photoshopped various levels of facial hair onto a group of men (so the men’s looks didn’t matter otherwise) and asked women which they preferred. It varied a little depending on whether they asked which one they would choose for sex or which for a relationship (which was interesting in itself), but overall, as a group they preferred the guys with stubble or a very short beard.

    The least preferred was a big, bushy, ZZ Top beard. But second-worst was clean-shaven. The best scores went to stubble or a short, well-trimmed beard — I think the former was tops for casual hookups and the latter for a relationship. So guys who are dating can trim to the best length for achieving their goals.

    Individual women differ greatly in what they like, of course, so this doesn’t matter to a man who already has a woman — unless he needs to make sure she sees him as attractive enough to other women to stay attractive to her, of course. You don’t want her thinking, “Yeah, no other woman would want him with that rat’s nest; I’m in control here.”

  107. Julian O'Dea

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/screen-brunettes/

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/to-answer-the-question/

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/big-eyes/

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/pale-brunette-girl-with-blue-eyes/

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/giving-the-reader-what-he-wants/

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/objectivists-discuss-the-sexiness-of-short-hair/

    http://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2013/01/02/short-hair-on-women-again/

  108. Calliso

    Now even though I have expressed my dislike of caring for longhair in this thread. If my husband wanted me to grow my hair longer then it is now I would certainly try. But to be honest my hair seems to be rather on the thin side without much body to it and it seems to be getting worse as I get older. So I think long hair would just make that fact that much more obvious. I should look into something natural that helps that. I don’t like spending a lot of time on my hair *I like something I can get up brush a bit and go lol* Not to mention other then some coloring which I stopped years ago my hair hasn’t seen a lot of product and I don’t want to start now. But this conversation has had me thinking more about how my hair looks.

  109. Farm Boy

    The weird thing is that I do not understand why this upsets them so much.

    Blind, you are

    Rape culture, to blame it is.

  110. Ashley

    “Ashley, you have to understand that these quotes don’t exist in a vacuum. This isn’t our first encounter with the ravings of Lindy West and company. We know what they’re about. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt and interpret everything they say in the best possible light, you’re welcome to be fooled. We know better, and interpret their words in context.”

    Yeah, and I was actually just thinking that the attitudes on Lindy West’s statement are more based on the preconceived notions about her, rather than what she said. I am pretty confident that it’s not what she said that is the problem here, but it’s the fact that *she* said it. It makes sense.

  111. Julian O'Dea

    I just sent a comment with a lot of links which may have gone into spam. It was a compendium of all my writings on female pulchritude.

    Mrs Walsh does not look nice in that photo. She is not pretty enough to deserve short hair.

    [ssm: Really, you don't think she looks nice? That just goes to show I don't always know what men find pretty then. I would have said she was an attractive woman with an unattractive haircut.]

  112. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 7:40 pm
    I’m not as concerned about anyone believing what I say as I am about trying to get people to think in a way in which they might not have before.

    We’re clearly using two different definitions of “believe” here – I’m using the “is this statement credible” definition, while you’re using the “agree with me” definition.

    You’ve made accusations about me and SSM w/out any substantiation for those allegations, much like the other comments you’ve made here. Without any arguments to back up your assertions, nobody here can even consider your position, much less “think differently”, change how they behave, or otherwise affect

    That is, unless your intention is to establish that you’re not a credible writer on any topic being discussed here… and then I read this …

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 7:43 pm
    Rollo, you have just initiated this into a personal attack in what has so far been a non-personal discussion. Way to go.

    So calling me stupid and lacking in comprehension isn’t a personal attack, but Rollo calling you out is? Oi!

  113. Farm Boy

    it’s not what she said that is the problem here, but it’s the fact that *she* said it.

    I just did a thought experiment. I imagined Marie Antoinette saying it.

    No difference.

    Let Lindy eat cake.

  114. Ashley

    “So calling me stupid and lacking in comprehension isn’t a personal attack, but Rollo calling you out is? Oi!”

    I never called you stupid. Good grief. But you are not (yet again) taking what I said as I am saying them. Read the text that is there. Don’t make up your own meaning for me. If you can do that, we will get along better.

  115. sunshinemary Post author
    I am pretty confident that it’s not what she said that is the problem here, but it’s the fact that *she* said it. It makes sense.

    Then you have false confidence.

    Go read the Jezebel essay everyone. I’m pretty sure that regardless of whose name was on it, I would still understand it to mean that the authoress is angry that men dare to express their preferences for long hair on women.

    And if tomorrow Lindy West were to write an essay entitled, “Unicorns, the Tooth Fairy, Campus Rape Culture, and Other Myths” I would say “Right on sister!” regardless of the fact that she is the one who wrote it.

  116. Cail Corishev

    I am pretty confident that it’s not what she said that is the problem here, but it’s the fact that *she* said it. It makes sense. — Ashley

    Nice try, but I won’t bother trying to explain the difference between interpreting a person’s words in the context of her body of work and engaging in ad hominems. You’re just not interesting enough. Besides, if calling you a feminist and linking to your website qualifies as a “personal attack,” you should probably run away now. Grownups play here.

  117. Ashley

    “Nice try, but I won’t bother trying to explain the difference between interpreting a person’s words in the context of her body of work and engaging in ad hominems. You’re just not interesting enough. Besides, if calling you a feminist and linking to your website qualifies as a “personal attack,” you should probably run away now. Grownups play here.”

    I’m not sure what your idea of a grownup is, but if it includes taking a discussion and then derailing it to make a personal insult about someone and their blog, then you have a pretty funny idea of what a grownup is. I could make fun of people from this community all day and night, but I guess that would be too grownup of me.

  118. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley November 10, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    “So calling me stupid and lacking in comprehension isn’t a personal attack, but Rollo calling you out is? Oi!”
    I never called you stupid. Good grief. But you are not (yet again) taking what I said as I am saying them. Read the text that is there. <Don’t make up your own meaning for me. If you can do that, we will get along better.

    “read the text” – ok, here’s the quote:
    “Oh my, are you calling me stupid?”
    No but tour comprehension skills need work, and this proves it in itself.

    Ok, you said my comprehension skills are lacking, w/out substantiation, and which you haven’t supplied despite requests to do so.

    Don’t make up your own meaning for me.

    It’s not my job to read your mind – I’ve asked you to clarify your statements a number of times, and you have completely failed to do. What you have done is try and turn the burden of the conversation around and put the work of understanding what you’re saying – on me!

  119. Julian O'Dea

    The photo of Mrs Walsh does not appeal to me in the slightest. If it is the woman I am thinking of, she became quite upset with me on one occasion, but I don’t think that is affecting my perception of her. I truly thinks she looks unattractive.

  120. ANorthernObserver

    Ashley – I’ve posed a number of questions for you to answer in order to clarify your position or accusation. I’ve quoted your words, and you’ve ignored that and have so far only tried to call me on something

    You have repeatedly to explain your statements, and in fact have tried to turn the conversation around so I was in the wrong for not reading your mind, and the like.

    I call troll. Or a serious case of hamsterization poisoning.

  121. ANorthernObserver

    Correction:

    You have repeatedly failed to explain your statements, and in fact have tried to turn the conversation around so I was in the wrong for not reading your mind, and the like.

    I call troll. Or a serious case of hamsterization poisoning.

  122. The Woman Margery

    Ashley’s M.O. is to show up to these sorts of posts and say “Is this really a thing? I don’t think this is really a thing.” in defense of whatever feminist sentiment. She showed up on my blog post about waning fertility with age and asked the same thing with regards to people these days thinking it’s okay to postpone having children. She’s either dense or playing dense. I honestly think it’s the latter. She knows it’s true but it doesn’t jive with her world view so…

    Point being, there is no point in arguing with her. She’s here to validate herself, or at least try to as she knows right down in her gut just how wrong she is.

  123. redpillsetmefree

    you are able to view women exactly as we are, without false illusions, yet you never seem to be particularly angry or disappointed. It’s really quite unusual. Most men are terribly disappointed when they realize that women do not live up the mythology that has been created about us. They expected better and now they are angry.

    And praytell, what is the origin of this female mythology?

  124. FuzzieWuzzie

    Well, SSM, I did as you said and followed the link to Lindy’s post. I can’t form an opinion as I’m still in shock over the crudity of her writing.

    Ashley, about making fun of the commenters here, someone else has already exposed the fact that a talking bear is commenting. That should save you from plowing old ground.
    Why are you trying to pick a silly fight? Women as good looking as you can afford to be gracious. You already have the boys’s attention.

  125. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy,
    History has given Marie Antoinette a bad rep. Easier to vilify an Austrian to justify the French Revolution than the King who was French.
    However, Lindy would say something hurtful with relish. (and mustard)

  126. The Woman Margery

    re: the post-

    I have to defend Jennifer Lawrence a bit. She said she chopped it because it was fried from all the dying and what not. I can relate with that. I recently had to cut my hair to shoulder length because I stupidly damaged it. It was the longest it has ever been and the strongest so, naturally, I thought “Let’s dye it!” *facepalm*. The problem is my hair and skin is highly sensitive and just that one dye job really damaged both. But even this isn’t the worse it has been. When I was on bed rest with each pregnancy my wild and crazy thick curls turned into giant dreadlocks. See, the fun thing about hair like mine is that it’s not as simple as “just brush it”, my hair has to be soaking wet and it takes me a good 10-20 minutes to get through it depending on my day. So two out of four pregnancies I had to chop it. It was DISGUSTING! I tried to wear scarves to make it look better but it was just so gross looking. A bob is one thing, a bob with super curly hair? Pass the puke bucket.

    Actually here’s an example that fits nicely with the point of this post- Keri Russell and I have the same hair type. Remember when she chopped off her hair on ‘Felicity’ and the rating plummeted?

    Before:
    http://img2.timeinc.net/instyle/images/2010/transformation/1994-keri-russell-400.jpg

    After:
    http://img2.timeinc.net/instyle/images/2010/transformation/2000-keri-russell-400.jpg

    So yes, long hair all the way! I do get rather bummed that my hair is so curly that it will never look stunning like most women with long hair but I do have my long curly hair inspiration. We have a different type of curl (mine are bigger) but I love Sydney Tamiia Poitier’s hair:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_72a3V3u5fkM/TM3525D7xjI/AAAAAAAAJP4/lh8c28BtVy4/s1600/grindhouse-death-proof-sydney-poitier1.jpg

    re: curly hair-

    I had struggled to get my hair to not be frizzed and matted for years and on top of that it just would not grow past shoulder length. But when I stopped shampooing it and started packing on the oils (coconut, olive, and almond mostly) my hair exploded in length. Before I dyed and cut it it was just passed my bra. Wet/straight it was much longer.

    For curly girls I highly recommend you first find out what ,a href=”http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types”>type of curl you have and go from there (I’m 3B). Not all curly hair is the same! And curly hair is also very independent and temperamental. You have to experiment for a long time before you find something that works and then you’ll probably have to change up your routine from time to time just to keep it going.

    @Stingray- I have been meaning to make a post about this at GBG, too, but wanted to wait and see what you all came up with first.

  127. an observer

    Fuzzie,

    You already have the boys’s attention.

    For some girls, too much attention is never enough.

    When it gets too much, have a look at the link left for you on the open thread.

  128. grinnincolossus

    If a girl has got the right face for it, a relatively short cut can still look attractive (relatively short, meaning not so short that the woman looks like a transgendered Peter Pan…I’m looking at you Emma Watson!). It may not be optimal, but it definitely is not a “50-60% decrease in attractiveness”, as one commenter put it. There are some shorter cuts that can still look feminine. I find a ‘curly bob’ haircut to be pretty attractive, but anything much shorter is pushing it.

    I’d say Jennifer Lawrence, who is pretty plain-looking to begin with, looks a good deal more attractive in the second picture. It’s probably just the smile and the lighting, though.

  129. Elspeth

    While I realize there are different strokes for different folks, I wonder if the gals here have a consensus on facial hair.

    Yes to facial hair. I think most women prefer it. I did a poll once on my old blog (i’ll look up the link). There were about 50 responses and the women preferred facial hair in some form about 2 to 1, if not slightly more.

    Yeah…facial hair is good.

  130. FuzzieWuzzie

    Observer,
    Even in the days of the blue pill, I knew women hunted. Could Ashley be out to bag a blogger?

  131. Anon

    If all those dance team girls had short hair, I am sure the guys would be standing around them all the same. Do your really think they’d walk away from young, fit girls dancing in cute uniforms? The guys are there because those girls are young and trim. If you put a bunch of long-haired middle aged ladies there, the guys would leave, long hair or not.

  132. earl

    ““Is this really a thing? I don’t think this is really a thing.”

    Is this reality, that doesn’t gel with my reality. If you agree with reality you are a misogynistic bully, if you call me out on my reality you are a misogynistic bully.

    This is How to be a Victim 101

  133. Frank

    I don’t think anyone is demanding men to find all short haired ladies attractive. Saying so is being quite dramatic, unless someone can link to a page where feminists are supposedly saying that verbatim. Now, I think being attracted to each other is important in a loving relationship, but is a man really going to be crazy about a woman with her longer hair, love her as his partner… and then suddenly not be able to get it up just because she decides to cut her hair short? Does that actually happen?

    It depends on how far along the relationship is. Long hair is so erotic and feminine that to cut it off is like cutting off one of your breasts. To us it’s that big a deal, and it’s evidently such a key aspect of femininity that there are whole chapters in the Bible regarding it. That’s why it’s not a fair analogy to compare a woman’s long hair to a beard, because it’s literally in a class of its own.

    Personally I can’t force myself to be equally attracted to a woman with short cropped hair the same way I would be if she had long, flowing hair, anymore than a woman can force herself to be attracted to a decent guy who otherwise acts like a weenie beta. It is what it is.

    Where marriage is concerned, if you have a wife who knows her husband loves her hair long but then she goes and cuts it off, I can’t see that as being anything other than an exercise in spite, and symptomatic of a much larger problem.

  134. The Woman Margery

    re: facial hair-

    My husband can’t grow a passible beard. He hardly has any facial hair, really. It’s interesting how this has colored my opinion of beards all around. We use to talk about how awesome it’d be for him to have one but over time after thinking about it a bit were both turned off by all the fuss that would come along with it. The grass is always greener… until you realize it takes more maintenance and tickles, I suppose.

    And remember… http://i.imgur.com/ytK9vZt.jpg

    But really, men with facial hair are attractive as are men without it. I’m not really all that picky, I just like men. A lot. But my husband most of all.

  135. Farm Boy

    This is How to be a Victim 101,

    Can she really be a victim if there is no government policy to “fix” the situation?

  136. Winter

    There are some women who look cute with shorter hair, particularly teeny-tiny women with very delicate features. Most women, though, are definitely prettier and more feminine with their hair at LEAST to their chins. Longer isn’t always better…if your hair is very fine or thin, going past your shoulders can lead to the straggly yucks :) My husband likes mine best when it’s about 4 inches past my shoulders. And I completely agree with the recommendations to skip a day of shampooing at least once in awhile and use argan oil for strength and shine.

    Somebody up there mentioned the old “It’s not my job to please men” line and I don’t TOTALLY disagree…I can’t please ALL men because they have different tastes, but I can please the one man who matters, and he prefers his woman to look like a woman, long hair and all.

  137. infowarrior1

    “So apparently it really is all men – from your average football fan, to guys on gun forums, to the diverse men in the manosphere, to the jerkwad guys at Total Frat Move, and even to male feminists for Pete’s sake – who prefer longer hair on women.”

    Sexual desire. Maintaining sexual dimorphism ever since the beginning of time.

  138. infowarrior1

    “Whenever I see short hair defended, usually pictures of gorgeous celebrities who cut their hair short are trotted out to defend the concept. The problems with this are twofold: 1. We’re already dealing with people who are attractive in high quantities. Most have symmetrical faces, small noses, high cheek-bones and small jaws and do not require hair to draw attention away from any of these things.”

    Good biological reasons why we find such people attractive:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002106

    Link between IQ and beauty:
    http://www.wiringthebrain.com/2012/07/genetics-of-stupidity.html

  139. hearthie

    I am 40 and my hair is past my waist. I’m starting to highlight, so I probably won’t get the hip length hair I had some years back … but maybe. We’ll see how the bleach treats me.

    Short hair is supposed to look better on women of a certain age because it doesn’t pull your face down. Easier solution? Wear your hair up!

    Here’s your rant from my mom (who had shiny gorgeous 60s hair for a decade or so) about proper long hair upkeep. I don’t do this, but if I really REALLY wanted epic length hair, I would. Maybe. I’m such a low-maintenance person. Okay, probably for a week.

    1) Wash your hair no more often than every other day. Comb before washing. Rinse carefully.
    2) Condition well. Comb while wet, never brush while wet. Never blow dry.
    3) Brush with a natural bristle brush, top to tip, every night until glossy.
    4) Sleep with your hair in loose braids.
    5) No alcohol-containing styling products. No heat styling.
    6) Keep regularly trimmed, in lieu of doing major cuts.

    I just avoid heat styling and blow dryers and too much washing. -shrug-

    Cut my hair to a bob once after I went from hips to mid-back and no one said anything, no one noticed. Bad decision. Now I pretty much move from brastrap to hips depending on damage and what I think looks cutest that year.

  140. hearthie

    Oh, saw the bit about having to cut for damaged hair. Yeah. Had that happen once too. Post spiral perm. Sat down in the chair, the stylist comes ’round and says, “I’m sorry – but we need to take 8″ off.” Sun in + perm + diagonal cut for the perm = bad hair metal hair = bye bye hair.

  141. anticonventionalist

    Is all advice from older feminist women to young girls really just about gimping the competition?

    “You’re young! Don’t even worry or think about guys right now! Focus on your career. Don’t have a boyfriend. Don’t commit to anyone. Even better, sleep around. Beat them at their own game and be as promiscuous as possible. Screw their preferences. Get that lip ring and a bunch of tattoos. Chop your hair off. Smoke and experiment with drugs. Don’t bother keeping in shape. If people complain, tell them to stop fat-shaming. Don’t bother learning to cook. Don’t worry about being pleasant, feminine, and kind. Be bitchy and arrogant. Fart and belch just like men do.Do it for equality!”

  142. Cail Corishev

    So yes, long hair all the way! I do get rather bummed that my hair is so curly that it will never look stunning like most women with long hair

    The important thing is that it’s long enough that it moves when you move. The rest — straight/curly, color, exact length — varies from guy to guy, but most guys like to be able to see it sort of “flow.”

    It occurs to me that, when you watch a feminine woman walk, there’s a symmetry between her hair and her skirt/dress: both sway in counterpoint to the movement of her body. Done right, it’s mesmerizing.

  143. sunshinemary Post author

    re all the chatter about bald men:

    My husband isn’t bald, but I find bald men perfectly attractive. My husband had super thick hair that has just slowly thinned out somewhat. I think he looks hot, but I would still think he looked hot if he lost it all.

    Men think women care more about hair than we do. I think I mentioned that to deti awhile back when he was talking about having lost his hair in his twenties, and I was like, “So? That’s a lot less big of a deal to women than you think it is.” Muscles will get you farther than worrying about your hair, which you can’t do much about anyway, and a commanding, masculine frame will get you the farthest.

    On beards: I like them but I don’t think HHG will probably ever grow one again. He gets stubbly sometimes if he doesn’t shave over a busy weekend, and I think that looks super sexy. Unfortunately, it is problematic during actual sex, though.

  144. anticonventionalist

    One thing I’ve noticed is that older men, single or married, don’t generally give this sort of bad advice to younger men. This is because they don’t perceive them as competition the way that older and especially single women see younger women.

    An older man will look at a young guy and think “Man, there’s a bunch of stuff I wish I’d known at his age,” and he’ll give him sincere advice. He’s not worried about the young guy muscling in on his turf since the older guy is likely more established in his career, more confident, smarter, and generally more attractive to the opposite sex. Older women desperately looking for their beta meal ticket are quick to give toxic advice to younger girls because they envy their youth and can’t compete.

  145. Amanda

    I like beards — husband has had full facial hair since about age 23, and has managed to keep it despite a white collar job (kind of frowned upon in that world). At first I wasn’t sure about it, but it has really grown on me over the years. Now I think it’s sexy.

  146. Chris

    Now, down in the Southern Climes I notice that most of the little girls want their hair long. Particularly the girly girls. Most Moms put up with it and do the braids etc… and when they get to high school they keep it long, because (in part) it is one place where they can show their individuality — you have to understand that girls schools where I live have a fully regulated uniform down to hair pins, badges, scrunchies and school bags.

    It’s at uni when they start cutting it off. Or when older. But the shaven head women’s studies graduate in a boiler suit does nothing to me… in fact most of the lesbian couples I know have long hair (cos they like girls and like being beautiful).

    On dying your hair and not wearing it long… two examples of how to do it:
    Emmylou Harris
    http://www.countrymusicnewsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/emmylou-harris.jpg
    Tori Amos
    http://www.undented.com/images/2732.jpg

    And, if you are younger, try Lorde
    http://pinboardblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Lorde++PNG.jpg

    The alternatives are Britney and Miley… neither of whom look good with short hair.

  147. lovelyleblanc7

    I don’t like facial hair. I think there are only a few men who can still look attractive while having facial hair, but I realized they always looked better without.
    I’m bad data though so, don’t listen to me.

  148. The Real Peterman

    “My husband isn’t bald, but I find bald men perfectly attractive”

    Lots of girls say that. I’ll believe it when I see it.

    [ssm: Danny from 504 says being bald doesn't hurt him with the ladies one iota.]

  149. evilwhitemalempire

    MRAs, PUAs, and etc. know all about the ‘rationalization hamster’.

    And they’re all experts on the topic of hypergamy.

    But feminist sexual jealousy? Duh, what’s that?

    It is a much neglected topic in the manosphere.

    Glad to see it given more attention.

  150. Learner

    Hair tourniquets actually do happen. My SIL is a nurse in a pediatric hospital emergency department and they see them often enough that she is paranoid about it with her sons.

    Another woman here who finds bald men attractive…I actually prefer it. Must have something to do with that crush I developed on Captain Piccard in my formative years.

    In the last 6 months or so I have had to cut my hair several inches shorter (it is shoulder length now) because of the effect of a medication I take for rheumatoid arthritis…it has thinned my hair considerably and made it weirdly curly but not in an even way…I call it my “clown fro”. It makes my hair look fuller at this length but I miss longer hair. I wore my hair to my waist for many years which felt very feminine. I had to cut it after a period of bed rest as well.

    It is quite humbling though when you have been told that your hair was one of your best features and then that isn’t the case anymore….if I said what the medications have done to my hair didn’t bother me. I would be lying.

  151. Rollo Tomassi

    Oh Ashley, you know you’re my favorite Beta orbiter magnet, right? I wouldn’t dream of personally attacking a girl like you; one who so deftly proves every point I’ve ever made on RM and even given me inspiration for a few I hadn’t thought of.

    I meant every word when I said your Hoop Dancing and Confessions were my favorite categories on your,..very personal and revealing blog. Please don’t let myself or anyone else run you off.

  152. elsie

    I recently had my waist length hair chopped to to just below my jaw. I was hesitant to do it but my husband of all people was the one who encouraged me to do it and really loved it once it was done.

    Granted it is still a feminine style and not super short but it is a huge difference. I’d been holding onto my long hair because I’d always been told growing up that husbands prefer long hair. Turns out that isn’t so true of my husband, he went crazy for the new cut. Who knew?

  153. RS

    I think the thickness of the hair has a lot to do with whether or not a woman will look good if she wears is long- though in most cases it’s better to grow it out. My husband’s assistant is a very attractive older woman (mid-50′s) who has very thin hair that looks terrible when it’s too long. She can only realistically grow it out to her shoulders before it looks stringy and awful, but she’s wise enough to have never cut it into a pixie cut. My mom has super thin hair and has always kept it cut short- much to my dad’s chagrin.

    My best feature is definitely my hair. It’s thick and curly and looks best when it’s long. My husband loooooves my hair. I would love it if my husband could grow some facial hair but it’s frowned on in his business. I like it when he’s on vacation and doesn’t shave. He also has super thick hair (our kids lucked out in that department) but I don’t think I’d mind if he was bald.

  154. Julian O'Dea

    infowarrior:

    “If they can’t get young boys. They will get boyish androgynous looking women.”

    Is this actually true? I ask in all seriousness. I have no evidence either way.

  155. nightskyradio

    Amanda – husband has had full facial hair since about age 23… it has really grown on me over the years

    Sounds like an alien life form. Get the flamethrowers.

  156. nightskyradio

    Farm Boy – That comic has no credibility. It is “The Ohio State University”, not “Ohio State” or “Ohio” as Brady Hoke says.

    As a native, I declare that comic funny, and declare Sunshine Michiga- errr, Sunshine Mary the enemy.

    P.S. Anyone ever notice how “Michigan” sounds a lot like “Meshuggah”?

  157. ballista74

    I defy any man here to look at this short-haired woman and say she is unattractive:

    The body is good…but the hair…ick. She’d pick up 2 points easily if she just grew it out.

  158. Julian O'Dea

    Found it: Elspeth:

    “I agree with this in general, but I also couldn’t help but think of Julian O’Dea (aka David Collard) and Alte’s husband. Men who like short hair tend to feel very strongly about it and their wives should submit to them.”

    Fortunately my wife also prefers her hair short. It has been short since I met her about thirty years ago, although it is longer in some earlier pictures. She grew it out a bit once but neither of us liked it.

    SSM, I do not blame women for being what they are. Frankly, I have never had a terribly exalted idea of your sex.

    I have seen a clear picture of Alte and as I remember she had short hair and she did look very nice with it.

  159. tbc

    The Woman Margery -
    I have to confess, when you posted this picture:
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_72a3V3u5fkM/TM3525D7xjI/AAAAAAAAJP4/lh8c28BtVy4/s1600/grindhouse-death-proof-sydney-poitier1.jpg

    It wasn’t exactly the hair that drew my attention. The legs….I mean… they just don’t stop do they? I’ve always been a ‘leg’ kind of guy which is why the recent trend of super short shorts on women has been no end of trouble for me to refrain from lust. Summer time is the worst!!

    I’m like Julian O’Dea in that I prefer brunettes (always have), but I’m neutral on short-hair. Some women pull it off beautifully, but most women look much more feminine with longer hair. Black women particularly have challenges with hair at times because well, for many of them, their hair often doesn’t grow ‘long’ very easily — at least without a lot of processing.

  160. elsie

    @RS you or your husband having thick hair is of very little significance when it comes to your male children’s hair later in life. There are a few causes of balding but the most common form is passed down the female side, so if your father was bald, your male children will most likely be bald too.

    I know this well because although I have quite thick hair and so does my husband, my father, all his brothers and all of his sisters’ male children are bald which means any male children I have will almost certainly go bald too.

  161. Julian O'Dea

    tbc

    Yes, I am very much a leg man too. That girl has good legs, but nice thighs like that are not rare. My wife has them. As I said to her recently, some women strip down well, others not so well, even though they are cute. Taller, leggier, rangier women look best naked. That woman would fit the bill.

    Ironically I just had a poem of mine in an online anthology, focussing on a woman’s breasts. Gently erotic. In reality, they have never been that important to me.

    Pale skinned brunettes are my favourite. But there are plenty of redheads and blondes who look fine. I do find brunettes seem to have more character in their faces.

  162. Ashley

    Rollo, I’m glad to know I have inspired you. I’m sure there will be much more where that came from. I wish I could say the same for you, but unfortunately, I don’t give much a damn enough about you or what you are about to be inspired.

    As for those of you who want to chalk me up to some feminist troll just trying to validate myself, you are wrong. The issue at hand doesn’t even apply to me. I like to stand for other issues that have nothing to do with me. Someone said, “Why are you trying to pick a silly fight? Women as good looking as you can afford to be gracious. You already have the boys’s attention.” Is that why you think I came here? If so, you are mistaken. I don’t need validation…. and just because someone wants to defend something, it doesn’t mean it’s because they are personally offended. If you can’t believe that, then maybe you are projecting from your own experience, but that’s not me.

  163. Julian O'Dea

    Amanda:

    ” I have kept my hair at least to my shoulders for years because of what the bible says about long hair for women. ”

    I should stress that is the feminine shorter cuts that I prefer. I don’t like long hair. It gets in the way. Jacqui Kennedy length is OK.

    While I agree that a woman should not try to look like a man, I don’t think shorter hair is necessarily masculine. My wife knows I like her to look feminine, and wears skirts to please me. although again I think she prefers them anyway. She was wearing jeans a bit around the house and out on her own recently, and I commented unfavourably.

    When we were younger, she used to wear jeans a bit and I used to let her drive the car sometimes. We are more conservative these days, and she rarely wears jeans. She doesn’t own pants as such that I can recall, only jeans. I no longer let her drive, unless I am tired or unwell.

    As for Scripture, I can only think of St Paul’s argument, which is from nature and leads ultimately to his argument that a woman should wear a covering on her head “in the assembly”. My wife has done this, but only when we used to attend Latin Masses.

    I don’t see a moral or scriptural argument against short hair on women. I am quite sure my wife does not do it as a feminist statement. She is not much of a feminist.

  164. ballista74

    Since I’m a bit bored.

    Audrey Hepburn:
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljgskqzS4e1qabj53o1_1280.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hAmHa02aoOc/UcTM0T4fH3I/AAAAAAAALuQ/6wzpiKW8Atc/s640/audrey-hepburn-0015.jpg
    http://eatwithjoy.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/audrey-hepburn-348.jpg

    If you look at the different pictures you can find of her, you can find pictures of her with long hair, either down like that first picture, up in a ponytail like the second or up like the third. IMO, the long hair ups her by about a point compared to the crop bob cut. The effect of the change is similar with her as the crop cut that Anne Hathaway got.

    Long hair really does matter.

  165. Ton

    Short hair is a boner killer, regardless of the dame sporting it and I’m not so sure there shouldn’t be a law against it. More like the law should say, she cannot get her hair cut without the approval of her, father, husband or some other biological male relative.

    I’ve never heard of bald being a negative for muscular men. Or men with brass. However, if you’re a dude and you worry being bald or having a beard will hurt you with the ladies…. well it isn’t being bald that’s killing you, it’s the worry. Don’t do a damn thing based on if a chick likes it or not. Way to many women out there to worry about stuff like that. And new ones hit the show room floor everyday in all kinds of makes and models. Some with after market kits.

  166. songtwoeleven

    Yes, I know hair tourniquets actually do occur, and the results are quite frightening. Might I say that this wasn’t the point of my mentioning hair tourniquets, however. Hair tourniquets are being used as a fearful excuse by scores of women to chop off all their locks immediately after childbirth – a time which is challenging enough for new mothers for feeling feminine and sexy, and a time that is also sometimes frightening for new fathers (hopefully the woman’s husband) in terms of sexual issues.

    So many women mentioned their irrational fear of hair tourniquets when I had our second baby that it was almost comical! “Cut your hair now! Suzie’s brother’s sister’s friend’s cousin had a baby whose penis fell off because she wouldn’t cut off her hair!”, was the usual ridiculous mantra.

    There’s even a “syndrome” – Hair Tourniquet Syndrome. Are you kidding me?

    It’s an excuse by the masses of women to engage in something THEY’VE always wanted to do (chop off their hair) but their husbands have not wanted them to do. Now they have an EXCUSE. What man is going to be angry at his wife for getting a pixie cut or an inverted bob wen it’s done for the ‘safety of the baby?’

    Ridiculous.

    My sympathies to those whose children suffer from hair tourniquets. It happens. My take is this: if you are in tune with your baby, you will likely be inspecting that baby top to bottom multiple times a day. You will likely be holding your new baby constantly because you are so smitten with the little darling, especially if this is your first baby.

    Oh, wait…sixty percent or more of women (new mothers) leave their babies with other people when the baby is but six weeks old.

    Perhaps this is the real problem with not finding hair tourniquets before it’s too late?

    Hmmm.

  167. Sam

    Texas’s greatest songwriter of all time once weighed in on this topic, though not one of his stronger efforts.

  168. Pingback: Links and Comments #17 | The Society of Phineas

  169. Amanda

    @Julian O’Dea

    “I don’t see a moral or scriptural argument against short hair on women.”

    Once I saw this teaching on head covering by a woman to other ladies, and she made a great explanation of how the passage wasn’t about hair length per se, but of the wearing of a covering while in prayer and in church (which I do). I just meant I kept my hair longer because it is described as glorious, and I figured a little more glory in my life can’t hurt, right?!

  170. Elspeth

    I don’t care what they say…I think bald men have more testosterone…

    My husband goes through a phase every now and then when he shaves his head, even thogh he still grows a full head of hair. Personally, I prefer him much more with the hair.

    However, he has a very handsome face and when he shaves his head, you can see women look twice. The bald head and the goatee are a great combination.

    tbc touched on something interesting about black women and hair. I have relaxed tresses, and it was to my shoulders. In its natural state, it wouldn’t look that long, although it would be much longer in reality.

    I just had to have 3+ inches cut because of damaged ends. My husband agreed that it had to be cut, so there was no contention. He did make a point of telling me to take the best care possible of it and myself so it can grow back out.

  171. ballista74

    A random question/poll: Is there such thing as too long for hair and where is that? That question came to mind and I was thinking of my own preferences and really couldn’t come up with an answer on that one, myself.

  172. earl

    “I defy any man here to look at this short-haired woman and say she is unattractive:”

    Some women can get away with it…but she would look a lot better with longer hair.

    I know of a gal that is attractive who has short hair. She would be a knockout if her hair was shoulder length or longer.

  173. Cautiously Pessimistic

    Is there such thing as too long for hair and where is that?

    I would hazard a guess that hair to the small of the back would be about as long as it can get and still be an accent to beauty. However, longer than that will still engage plenty of men’s interests. It’s just that they might be a little too interested in the hair, iykwimaityd.

  174. Learner

    Singtwoeleven,

    Oh, I agree hair tourniquets are a silly reason to cut your hair ( especially because the hair doesn’t have to be that long to cause one). when caring for my nephews as infants she just asked that I not allow them to play with or pull my hair and that I check their diapers/diaper areas for hair before fastening them. No need to cut your hair to do that. I commented because I got the impression from some of the commenters that they were a nonissue. I never heard of them before my nephews either.

  175. Opus

    As everyone knows I attended a boarding school (what we call Public School) and every such institution has a Matron – the only woman in the institution. Our old Matron was a splendid woman who was not fazed by the sight of a naked penis. When she left she was replaced by another woman who we nicknamed Samantha, and whom we otherwise referred to as The Witch, and the reason we thought she was a witch was because she was nearly old and still had long hair like witches do. Older women should therefore not wear long hair because it implies that they are available for sex when they are of an age when they are repulsive – at least to small boys.

    If, however you have two young women of equal looks and one has short and the other long hair the man will always go for the woman with long hair (despite what Julian O’Dea might have you believe). and the reason is that a girl with short hair looks like a BOY.

    When a woman like the young mad Irish-woman Sionad O’Connor [link please] shaves her head, what she is in fact announcing is that she is, despite her lack of hair, still cuter than anyone else. Such is not the case with some of those linked above and that includes La Hepburn.

  176. alcestiseshtemoa

    Why do older unmarried women, gays and feminists want some females to cut their hair short? It’s either:

    (A) Do as I say, not as I do.
    (B) Lie, and sabotage other females for gain.
    (C) Truly mistaken and thinks that short hair looks wonderful on most women (that I can understand).
    (D) Has cancer and short hair is typical for women with cancer.
    (E) Other reasons.

    To get a bit more personal, I have medium-length (shoulder-length) curly hair, and other girls that I’ve known have that profile too (check out my “biracial women – beautiful mulatta” videos situated at the Open Conservations page to see the natural standard look). I’m fine with the length and the texture thanks to inspiration from entities around other corners of the Internet (thanks guys for finding curly hair pretty), and I won’t cut it, nor use dangerous chemicals on it.

    It’s not that short hair can’t look beautiful and stylish on a couple of females, it’s just that most women in various locales have medium-length to long hair and look better with it. I think my mother did it right by just letting my hair be in its own natural state.

  177. Novaseeker

    This is an area that is very much taste-driven on all sides.

    While I would agree that, in general, more men prefer longer hair to shorter hair, there is more variation in taste than one might think among men over this issue (and most other issues relating to the appearance of females in terms of preferences). I personally think that shorter hair requires an exceptionally beautiful face to be pulled off as well as slightly longer hair (because the facial features are pushed forward and highlighted by it), but on women like that (say Audrey Hepburn or Natalie Portman) it can work extremely well. It requires a certain type of face, I think.

    Re baldness in men. There is a difference between “balding” (more common) and “shaved head bald” (less common). I tend to think the latter is more popular among women than the former. The latter requires more maintenance and is therefore a bit of a symbol of that as well, as is well maintained facial hair.

  178. Cail Corishev

    Julian, if you like your wife’s hair short, that’s great. You shouldn’t have to defend your preference. Enjoy the fact that you live in an age when there are many short-haired women for you to enjoy looking at.

    But understand that you’re an outlier, and your preference for short hair doesn’t mean that other men should learn to like it or that it’s somehow “right,” any more than a 300-pound woman who manages to find a husband who says he likes her that way proves that women shouldn’t try to be slim. Your preference is your own, but not that of most men, which would be much more obvious if fewer men were cowed by feminism into telling women whatever they want to hear.

    As for the scriptural angle, I don’t know all the references, but 1 Corinthians 11 says if a woman nourishes her hair, it is a glory to her. That doesn’t quite read like a command to me, though; more like a strong suggestion. And though things generally do grow when you nourish them, that’s not always the case: you might prune your roses as part of nourishing them, to keep them healthy. So I think there’s enough wiggle-room there that, if your own preference is for shorter hair, your wife can “nourish” it in ways to keep it attractive to you without letting it grow long.

  179. alcestiseshtemoa

    Jenny

    November 10, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    I am trying to grow my hair as I really think it looks feminine. It is a couple of inches past my shoulders right now and I am attempting to get it into good condition as it is fine (but there is a lot of it) and it tangles a lot.

    Even though my hair isn’t long I have already had some people say I should cut it – into a bob …… eeek! – and that it is easier and more stylish to have shorter hair. I never really paid much attention to it before but a lot of the women that I work with (the older ones) have short hair.

    Any hair care tips? :) x

    Take Biotin capsules (choose the vitamin brand you’d like), anywhere between 1000 micrograms (which is the minimum) to 10,000 micrograms (which is the maximum) per day. Biotin does wonders for hair growth. Most of the side effects I’ve heard though was about insomnia (lack of sleep) and acne breakouts. It’s a water soluble vitamin and hence not toxic nor dangers. Still, it does have the side effects I’ve mentioned previously.

  180. alcestiseshtemoa

    By the way Jenny, avoid extensive shampooing. Use conditioners and oils daily or weekly (depending on your hair care routine and other daily schedules). If you use a shampoo, use it monthly and make sure it’s a clarifying shampoo (so as to eliminate excessive conditioning build-up). Get combs and brushes, use them together when styling the hair.

  181. alcestiseshtemoa

    Coconut oil, shea butter and argan oil are all good oils. Don’t color the hair too much either. It leads to breakage and damage. Keep it natural, and maybe add some highlights occasionally.

  182. DrTorch

    So why does Snow White on Once Upon a Time have such short hair?

    I can’t look at her, w/ that fat face and boy haircut, and not be repulsed. So I’m trying to figure out what the message is there.

  183. alcestiseshtemoa

    Ida Corr, another famous biracial girl with an African father, has medium-length curly hair and is *surprise, surprise* another chameleon when it comes to skin tone (switches between dark yellow and brown like me). We tend to have our mother’s facial and body features though in combination with medium curly hair.

    Curly hair –> http://www.senest.dk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%C3%85rhussangerinde-Ida-Corr-p%C3%A5-top-tre-over-fr%C3%A6kkeste-m%C3%B8dre.jpg
    Curly hair –> http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3179/idanatholdet.jpg

    Straight hair –> http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/l25Fdr67fvM/hqdefault.jpg
    Straight hair –> http://www.anr.dk/media/634411/ida_corr.jpg

  184. Cautiously Pessimistic

    So I’m trying to figure out what the message is there.

    I’m pretty sure it’s “Strongnindependent woman who’s just as good as a man you bastard so love me daddy.”

    My wife was watching that crap last night, and I had a similar reaction to yours. But then, that whole show seems to have an unattractive/disconcerting asthetic. I assume it’s intentional.

  185. alcestiseshtemoa

    Interestingly, my sister is dark yellow to brownish in skin color, has shoulder length curly hair and has my mother’s face/body plus acts like her too. That’s actually a typical profile I’ve known in other broken families too. Hmmmm…

  186. alcestiseshtemoa

    Some Indian women from Asia are also brown-skinned yet have straight hair (not medium-length curly like the other biracial girls I’ve known and seen). I once had my hair straightened, and a taxi driver asked me if I was from Asia. LOL

  187. Deep Strength

    @ ballista

    A random question/poll: Is there such thing as too long for hair and where is that? That question came to mind and I was thinking of my own preferences and really couldn’t come up with an answer on that one, myself.

    My preference is a bit longer than shoulder length to mid-back is best (about T2 to T12 if you want to talk vertebrae, haha), and from there longer or shorter it starts getting more unattractive to me.

  188. blazingsuth

    Re: Is there such thing as too long for hair and where is that?

    When I met my husband, my hair was down to my hips. I loved it, but after we’d been together a few months, he asked me to cut it shorter. The problem was two-fold; my hair was so long that I had to put it up for practically *everything*, so it was mostly in a braid or a bun, even when sleeping. Also, it was kind of boring. I have straight healthy hair, but it was really hard to find a stylist who had any idea what to with hair that long, so there weren’t really any layers or movement in my hair when down, it was pretty flat.

    I cut it to mid back, he liked that. Once I got out of the military, I cut it to a chin length bob, just to see how it felt since I could never handle the maintenance for that length when I was in uniform; I’m not a fan. My hair is currently about 2 inches below my shoulders and headed back to mid-back. My husband has asked only that I keep it shoulder length or longer, but not past my waist.

    As a woman in the military, my hair was one of the feminine things about me; it’s *very* important to maintain something feminine while wearing combat boots and camo everyday! Because my hair was so long, I had a really large bun, it even had nicknames; “the Chambered Nautilus”, “Cinnabun”, “the Capt. Janeway”, “the Princess Leia”. I miss that length sometimes, but I really don’t miss the headaches from pinning that much hair to the back of my head.

  189. Mary Ellen (@WorkingHomeKpr)

    Elspeth: “tbc touched on something interesting about black women and hair. I have relaxed tresses, and it was to my shoulders. In its natural state, it wouldn’t look that long, although it would be much longer in reality. ”

    This illustrates the difference between Black/Afro-textured hair in its natural state and when straightened.

    http://www.pinterest.com/pin/102668066478867229/

    My hair is relaxed as well. Though, I no longer use heat on my hair. When wet it falls just below my shoulders. But, once dry it falls closer to chin length.

  190. The Woman Margery

    @NovaSeeker: “Re baldness in men. There is a difference between “balding” (more common) and “shaved head bald” (less common). I tend to think the latter is more popular among women than the former. “

    Right. My husband is shaved not bald. But I have actually crushed on bona fide bald men, before. To the point that my husband mocks me for it. I know plenty of women that do. Sean Connery is still a sex symbol as is Bruce Willis.

  191. Julian O'Dea

    A girl with short hair does not look like a boy to me. She looks like a girl with short hair.

    I am not arguing that the bulk of men are wrong to like long hair. Just that some men disagree. And not to suck up to feminists.

    As for Sinead O’Connor, her hair was practically shaved, as I recall. That went too far.

    These are matters of taste. It is fun to discuss them but perfect agreement is impossible.

  192. Farm Boy

    .I had a really large bun, it even had nicknames; “the Capt. Janeway”

    Reviled, she was.
    To the dumb side, she succumbed

  193. malcolmthecynic

    This is, of course, a generalization I’m sure. It’s rare, but properly cut, some women DO look better with short haircuts. Mariska Hagertay of “Law and Order: SVU” is the first and most obvious example that comes to mind.

  194. bike bubba

    “P.S. Anyone ever notice how “Michigan” sounds a lot like “Meshuggah”?”

    I’ve got friends who, after seminary at Grand Rapids Bridal (oops, “Bible”), went for a year or two to a kibbutz, and everybody there confused “Michigander” with “Meshugoyim.” Probably happens to every troll or Yooper who goes to ha’aretz yisrael. :^)

    (for the uninitiated, “meschuggah” is Hebrew/Yiddish for “crazy”)

    (and how about them Huskers!)

  195. Farm Boy

    BB,

    My Dad was from Nebraska and worked for MSU. I went to UM. So I grew up cheering for all three.

    My Yooper cousins say that they get mistaken for Canadians when they travel.

  196. bike bubba

    Can I put in a vote as well for “women, stop listening to homosexuals regarding what to wear, too”? It strikes me that most models on the “catwalk” are basically boys with vestigial breasts, and there is nothing whatsoever feminine about most of them.

    But regarding hair, long hair tends to move with the wearer–it will compliment real femininity to an achingly beautiful effect. Certainly not the only reason for 1 Cor. 11′s prescription for long hair for women, but it’s a great reason nonetheless. I actually recently asked my wife to adopt some of the “counter-cultural” hair care instructions to let her grow hers out longer. It’s working great.

  197. Sarah's Daughter

    Re bald men:
    Lots of girls say that. I’ll believe it when I see it.

    RLB mentioned growing his hair out after he retires, I begged him not to. He’s Bic’ed bald and it is awesome! He is going to grow his beard (which I fully support) if he can get it past the itchy – going to rip my face off – stage. Any tips from the men to deal with the itch?

    Re colored hair – some men, like my husband, love long platinum blonde hair. He understands the cost of keeping it healthy since I bleach the roots and tone it every 6 weeks. Yep, it breaks more than my natural dirty dish water blonde hair would but he and I both love the looks of it so much better. It’s an investment he chooses to make. So, again, as with all things, find out your husband’s preferences and if a certain color is this thing, by all means do it.

  198. Jenny

    I am sure that some women find bald men attractive. I kind of like the mountain man look! Unfortunate as I live in a town and am surrounded by men who seem to want to look almost feminine and act like teen boys. x

  199. FuzzieWuzzie

    Jenny,
    If memory serves, you’re a long way from the Rockies. How will you find a mountain man in Merry Old?

  200. alcestiseshtemoa

    Besides Natalie Portman, Keira Knightley is another gal that can pull of short hair. Except the following quote is quite correct.

    The Karamazov Idea

    November 10, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Frat move had some oddly cogent thoughts on it. Whenever I see short hair defended, usually pictures of gorgeous celebrities who cut their hair short are trotted out to defend the concept. The problems with this are twofold: 1. We’re already dealing with people who are attractive in high quantities. Most have symmetrical faces, small noses, high cheek-bones and small jaws and do not require hair to draw attention away from any of these things. 2. No celebrity female, none at all, looks better with short hair than with well-groomed locks. Bronan made that point on his now-defunct blog.

    From personal experience, I have never witnessed a woman increase in attractiveness when she cut her hair. One of my old friends cut all of her 2.5 feet of curls off. She went from gorgeous to being somebody you’d pass on the street and wouldn’t look twice at. I have another very good friend who had a very short bobby cut in college. It’s been 4 years. She grew out her hair and is now getting a lot of attention from a lot of men. She noticed the difference too.

    I knew another girl that chopped hers off and not 10 minutes later she was on facebook posting how much she regretted it and how terrible it looked. She was genuinely emotionally upset to the equivalent of the feeling a guy would get if his beloved car got totaled. Most women find flaws in their appearances they never knew they had when they chop off their hair. The only response is to weep bitterly like this girl, or kick the hamster into maximum overdrive and declare that she “pulls it off” nicely and even if she doesn’t, she doesn’t care if other people find her attractive or not (as she fishes in her purse for her makeup).

    As a final example, when I first was in college there was this one girl I got stuck in a group project with. She was unremarkable looking, but certainly not unattractive. She also was in good shape. She’d fall into the category of “plain but not homely.” She transferred schools and the next time I saw her was 3 years later at a party with some friends. She had decided she was a lesbian and she chopped all of her hair off as is trendy with many SWPL women in school. I had never noticed exactly how crooked her nose was or how pronounced her chin was until she hacked off her blond hair. Long hair is camouflage for facial chaos. It also hides weight better. I’m not sure if this particular girl picked up any or it just appeared to hang more awkwardly without long hair. All I know is I think women tend to underestimate how much hair helps in their appearances.

    Touché.

  201. FuzzieWuzzie

    Jenny,
    I can identify with that. Where I live makes Kansas look downright hilly!
    It’s too bad you can’t order a beau from a catalog.

  202. Jenny

    @ FuzzieWuzzie

    I do love England though! The seasons, the weather, the local, most things really.

    I read a book called Hearts West which was about mail order brides in the gold rush era. It was fascinating! x

  203. FuzzieWuzzie

    Jenny,
    Curious how mail order brides worked in the Wild West and how internet dating currently is such a flop.
    Have you ever considered the military? Captain Capitalism reccommends it for you young men if only because they’re assigned tasks involving responsibility at a far younger age than the private sector. You might do well to aquaint yourself with young men dealing with responsibility.
    Just a thought.,

  204. Novaseeker

    Any tips from the men to deal with the itch?

    Just grow it out properly, so that it is nice and thick, and shampoo, condition and comb through daily as someone would with hair on the top of the head. There should be no significant itchiness if done that way. There will be when the beard is first being grown out, though, as the skin becomes accustomed to having the hair there.

  205. songtwoeleven

    I am not a man, but my husband says the same thing as Novaseeker regarding growing a beard beyond itchy stage. He uses my hair conditioner on it and brushes/combs it with a natural bristle brush/fine tooth comb. He starts growing his well before it’s really cold outside so that the skin isn’t further irritated by the bitter cold. He begins in the fall.

  206. songtwoeleven

    Right. My husband is shaved not bald. But I have actually crushed on bona fide bald men, before. To the point that my husband mocks me for it. I know plenty of women that do. Sean Connery is still a sex symbol as is Bruce Willis. – Margery

    My husband is not shaved bald but “naturally” bald. Plenty of women do find truly bald men attractive. Again, not George Constanza bald – Constanza has no mojo. It bears repeating. I do not think a man’s lack of hair on his head or his face is anything akin to a woman’s shearing off her locks for a reason other than a legitimate medical issue.

  207. Pingback: How About You? | Girls Being Girls

  208. lovelyleblanc7

    @Tbc: This is true, but black women can grow their hair. I’m living proof of that. My hair is in layers, but it reaches almost mid back, but when it is natural is a little past my shoulders.
    Most black women, if they pay careful attention to their hair, should be able to grow it out at least past their shoulders.

  209. Elspeth

    True, LLB. Mine was to my shoulders and has been slightly longer than that. The processing that we do to it to get that effect however, can sometimes cause damage of we don’t keep it regularly trimmed.

    I dropped the ball on that this past spring and summer, and the result was that I had to cut 3 inches off.

  210. Calliso

    “This is, of course, a generalization I’m sure. It’s rare, but properly cut, some women DO look better with short haircuts. Mariska Hagertay of “Law and Order: SVU” is the first and most obvious example that comes to mind.”

    Yeah it really has a lot to do with your facial structure and of course the hair you have. Mariska Hagetay does look great though with that haircut. I have seen some women that look good with fairly short *lets say chin length or less* haircuts. I have seen women that don’t look very good with long hair.

  211. Alexander

    I’ve long come to the conclusion that female celebrities going short-hair are like the images of a tycoon smoking a one-hundred dollar bill. It’s a way to say:

    Suck it, peasants. I am so sexually desirable and marketable that I can massively destroy my image (but in a conveniently temporary way) and still reel in more men sniffing for a piece of me than you ever will.

    A female sex symbol sporting a short hair cut is not your role model – she is deliberately shoving in your face her SMV.

  212. Calliso

    “When I met my husband, my hair was down to my hips. I loved it, but after we’d been together a few months, he asked me to cut it shorter. The problem was two-fold; my hair was so long that I had to put it up for practically *everything*, so it was mostly in a braid or a bun, even when sleeping. Also, it was kind of boring. I have straight healthy hair, but it was really hard to find a stylist who had any idea what to with hair that long, so there weren’t really any layers or movement in my hair when down, it was pretty flat.

    I cut it to mid back, he liked that. Once I got out of the military, I cut it to a chin length bob, just to see how it felt since I could never handle the maintenance for that length when I was in uniform; I’m not a fan. My hair is currently about 2 inches below my shoulders and headed back to mid-back. My husband has asked only that I keep it shoulder length or longer, but not past my waist.

    As a woman in the military, my hair was one of the feminine things about me; it’s *very* important to maintain something feminine while wearing combat boots and camo everyday! Because my hair was so long, I had a really large bun, it even had nicknames; “the Chambered Nautilus”, “Cinnabun”, “the Capt. Janeway”, “the Princess Leia”. I miss that length sometimes, but I really don’t miss the headaches from pinning that much hair to the back of my head.”

    Yeah imo it is very rare that a woman can pull off hair as long as yours was. I mean people talk about long flowing locks but a lot of women do have hair like yours that is just kinda flat. So they end up doing what you did and having it up all the time. And at that point well what’s the point? it just becomes a time consuming hassle.

  213. lovelyleblanc7

    @Elspeth: I hate getting trims, but yes, it is very necessary. We also have to make sure our hair is moisturized because dry hair makes the ends brittle.
    Oh, I understand! At one point I had to cut my hair almost to my shoulders (a good couple of inches off). That was about 3-4 years ago. It’ll grow back, no need to worry :)

  214. bike bubba

    Call me weird, but I’m not even persuaded that Hargitay or Knightley pulls off the short hair look. Had to google pictures, but Hargitay is clearly prettier by a long shot with feminine hair, and Knightley…..OK, can I say it; the woman needs a sandwich, not a trip to the hairdresser! Yet more places where I differ with the opinions of homosexual fashion designers and hairdressers, I guess.

  215. alcestiseshtemoa

    @lovelyleblanc7 – You’re brown-skinned with medium-length too. Would you prefer to have long straight hair or long curly hair?

    Alexander

    November 11, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    I’ve long come to the conclusion that female celebrities going short-hair are like the images of a tycoon smoking a one-hundred dollar bill. It’s a way to say:

    Suck it, peasants. I am so sexually desirable and marketable that I can massively destroy my image (but in a conveniently temporary way) and still reel in more men sniffing for a piece of me than you ever will.

    A female sex symbol sporting a short hair cut is not your role model – she is deliberately shoving in your face her SMV.

    Right on.

  216. Novaseeker

    ince you wear a beard yearly, what is it texture, length and color?

    Heh, it’s not red — it’s brown and grey, full (but not like a Monk or anything). Any beard of a decent fullness should be relatively soft in texture if it is taken care of properly, but can become rough if it isn’t.

  217. Julian O'Dea

    alcest, I am not much attracted to African women, but I think that girl looks nice.

    As some commenters have, perhaps unwittingly, implied long hair can simply hide ugly features on a woman.

    Two more women who have always looked nice with short hair are Elizabeth McGovern:

    http://cdn01.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mcgovern-cheerful/elizabeth-mcgovern-cheerful-weather-portrait-11.jpg

    and Jamie Lee Curtis:

    http://ilarge.listal.com/image/5104899/936full-jamie-lee-curtis.jpg

    http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33300000/Jamie-Lee-Curtis-jamie-lee-curtis-33371610-1700-2426.jpg

    And here she is as an older woman. Older women often look better with shorter hair, and I think she looks very presentable here as a “silver fox”:

    http://silverfoxes.provocateuse.com/images/photos/jamie_lee_curtis_01.jpg:

  218. lovelyleblanc7

    @alcestiseshtemoa: Long curly hair is nice, but I like to switch it around. Sometimes I want it curly, sometimes I want it straight. Straight hair is easier to take care of though. My dad has long, straight, black hair and it is easier for him.

  219. Elspeth

    It’s not usually long at all, so I don’t get it when African-Americans start talking about growing African hair. Weird.

    Given that I’ve had hair to mid back, I don’t see what’s weird about it. My daughter wears her natural hair and she has a lot of hair (long when straightened by blowing it out), nowhere near that short. Black women can grow hair. Hair as short as that picture is a style choice.

    What’s more, is we’re American, not African.

  220. lovelyleblanc7

    “Black women can grow hair. Hair as short as that picture is a style choice.”
    Yes, a thousand times to this. It gets so annoying for people to constantly ask me if I’m wearing a weave because they think black women cannot have long hair.

  221. earl

    “Any tips from the men to deal with the itch?”

    Part of the process…if you can get past the two-three week mark, you are home free. It seperates the men from the boys.

  222. Sarah's Daughter

    Earl,
    It’s funny, he started growing it out a couple weeks ago knowing he wouldn’t be able to keep it (he has a few more things to do with the Army these next two weeks and needs to be clean shaven). So he almost made it through the crazy itch period and then had to shave today. But I think he’ll be willing to do it all over again once he finals out of the Army, he got a lot of approval ;) of the beard he had going. He’s kept his Army approved mustache (which I can’t stand all by itself) but convinced me it’s better this way since his mustache needs more time to get full than his beard does. He’s got this crazy calico thing going on, his mustache is several shades of blonde but his beard is almost black with a spattering of silver.

    I’m curious though, he’s moving into the civilian world for the first time in eight years, how are beards received now in the corporate environment?

  223. ballista74

    I’m curious though, he’s moving into the civilian world for the first time in eight years, how are beards received now in the corporate environment?

    Usually, the answer I’ve seen is “not well”, but that’s changing slowly into “Your mileage may vary” from the reading I’ve found (which is very interesting, btw, there’s been notable lawsuits over this). A number of places have direct policies against facial hair, but the presence of the facial hair can project the image that you are dirty, lazy, a bum or other similar labels. Then there’s always the unwritten “corporate image” issue, and the issue of image projected by personal appearance (think unkempt groomed facial hair, patchy, gray hair, etc). The bias has always been towards the clean shaven, but the general suggestion seems to be that there are those who are able to do it without repercussion (where policy doesn’t exist) if they wait until they have themselves established and their job image isn’t dictated by their beard (in other words, don’t interview with the facial hair), and be sure it’s exceeding well-groomed.

  224. Sarah's Daughter

    Thanks ballista, I appreciate that.
    I honestly don’t think he’ll keep a beard. He’s having a hard time wrapping his head around working for a 1.2 billion dollar software development company that doesn’t require the wearing of suits (read it on their website). When he left the civilian world, he wore a suit every day.

    I absolutely love his beard but he’s old school. Right now I think he’s just really enjoying the prospect of being out of the Army and able to do silly things like travel 150 miles without five pages of documentation and a vehicle inspection.

  225. Sarah's Daughter

    It’s unclear if shaving is required for this position – we don’t think it is. He’ll be working with a bunch of physics geeks. Who knows what they’ll look like. I think his first presentation (being that he’ll be their equal opportunity check mark employee – disabled vet – while also being a white man) should be clean cut, white shirt and tie as he walks along with his cane.

  226. alcestiseshtemoa

    @Elspeth – lovelyleblanc7 is brown and not black. It’s probable that possesses something else in her background.

    Around American corners some may imagine German’s Next Top Model Lovelyn Enebechi as a prototypical “biracial look” but it really isn’t. Or even someone as pale such as African-Americans like Alicia Keys or Beyonce. In my mind, the three of them had dads that are probably medium brown-skinned and that’s why they came out so pale.

    I’ve found out that medium brown daddies apparently aren’t as common as dark brown nearing black as midnight for mixed types. Most of the biracial girls I knew (from broken families) had really dark brown, almost coal black, African fathers in addition to a white Caucasoid Euro mother. The baby girls came out pale yellow, but as they grew up became between dark yellow and medium brown-skinned thanks to daily sunlight.

    Presenter Georgina Kwayke had a Ghanian father and a Hungarian mother.

    See this –> http://i2.listal.com/image/339781/600full-georgina-kwakye.jpg
    Or this –> http://i2.listal.com/image/5470659/600full-georgina-kwakye.jpg

    It irritates me that Americans now rule the roost when it comes to the “biracial look” and it tends to destroys the actual biracial look. To find the true look, I had to delve into the Internet and find various pictures of adult women who had African fathers yet went back as children into their mother’s European country after the divorce.

    Maybe that’s why all of them immigrated to European countries and capitals. Who wants to be called “black” in the USA straight to their face because some don’t know how actual black women look like? It’s not only frustrating, it’s confusing.

  227. alcestiseshtemoa

    The Woman Margery

    November 11, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    There is a whole movement of black women who are opting to go natural and grow out their hair. The results can be quite stunning, too. Hey Fran Hey is my personal favorite but there is also Urban Bush Babes and Black Girl with Long Hair.

    I clicked on the link and saw that those women are dark yellow to medium brown-skinned. They’re not black. I feel like I have to defend this, but that is another huge pet-peeve of mine. Being called “black” in the USA gave me mental problems. Big time irritation and anger.

    Sun-Saharan African women with natural long hair aren’t typical. It was usually quite short. North African Arab women can have long hair, but they’re wholly Caucasoid Arab.

    East African women from the Horn of Africa can have long hair, but they usually have some Arab paternal blood from long ago in addition to having yellow skin tone range too.

  228. alcestiseshtemoa

    Ton

    November 12, 2013 at 1:36 am

    LOL

    I’d walk off a contract if shaving was required

    That’s an interesting fact.

  229. alcestiseshtemoa

    Julian O’Dea

    November 11, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    alcest, I am not much attracted to African women, but I think that girl looks nice.

    As some commenters have, perhaps unwittingly, implied long hair can simply hide ugly features on a woman.

    Two more women who have always looked nice with short hair are Elizabeth McGovern:

    http://cdn01.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mcgovern-cheerful/elizabeth-mcgovern-cheerful-weather-portrait-11.jpg

    and Jamie Lee Curtis:

    http://ilarge.listal.com/image/5104899/936full-jamie-lee-curtis.jpg

    http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33300000/Jamie-Lee-Curtis-jamie-lee-curtis-33371610-1700-2426.jpg

    And here she is as an older woman. Older women often look better with shorter hair, and I think she looks very presentable here as a “silver fox”:

    http://silverfoxes.provocateuse.com/images/photos/jamie_lee_curtis_01.jpg:

    Elizabeth McGovern has that stylish, short but still not that short look whereas Jamie Lee Curtis goes for the boyish short cut all the way. That’s a noticeable, differential aspect.

  230. Sarah's Daughter

    Being called “black” in the USA gave me mental problems. Big time irritation and anger.

    Imagine a white person’s frustration growing up in Minnesota Nice culture where anyone with darker skin than ivory is a POC or an “African American.” – And also that because of our skin tone we are privileged (white privilege – it’s a thing now). Never mind the fact that two generations deep is a full blood Native American. But our skin color (well, lack there of) determines our privilege regardless of actual race and heredity. Never mind the lack of privilege our Irish pale skin white brethren endured.

    If you find Americans lumping all colors under one big umbrella of POC, it’s because we haven’t a clue what the most appropriate, politically correct term is. We’d like to call all Americans – American, but there is a HUGE resistance to this in the liberal community. And, as a result, there has been a desensitizing affect that has led us to not give two shits. Got it?

  231. alcestiseshtemoa

    But maybe I am being a huge whiner like Alte once said to me on OZConservative. She was right I AM whining too much. Why do I mop again? Maybe I should just get of the Internet… or concentrate on hair! =)

  232. alcestiseshtemoa

    Yes, Sarah’s Daughter. Apologies to all for ruining this thread with my whining and neuroses. Goodbye for now.

  233. Elspeth

    I’ve been asked if I wear a weave as well Lovely, though I certainly won’t be getting that question with my hair at is current length. When it was very long was before I started relaxing it, choosing the straighten with heat rather than chemicals.

    Dark skinned black woman with a lot of hair:

    http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/cTIKDUuOGKZzl892VTCizQ–/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTtzbT0xO3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/ymusic-reality-rocks/RVM_0059-1.jpg

    My sister had hair exactly like that in the 70′s. She’s in her 50′s now, and still has longer thicker hair that I do. I’m jealous of her hair.

    It”s not that rare. Really. I’m medium skinned brown, I think lighter than Lovely even though I’m not biracial. I am not sure where this idea that black women can’t grow hair comes from.

    I’ve actually never heard of it before Alcestis asserted it. It is commonly accepted that the reasons black women tend to have shorter hair is largely because we tend to abuse and overprocess it. Not because we can’t grow hair, LOL. Whoever heard of such a thing???

  234. Elspeth

    I could have just pointed out my daughter in the header photo of my blog. That’s her hair, in it’s curly state. Imagine if I blew it out. Mine was exactly like that but I would use heat to straighten it out so it hung even longer. Until I decided when I was 21 to chop it off, extra short and relax it. My husband (we were dating at the time) was not happy with me. Thankfully it wasn’t a deal breaker.

  235. alcestiseshtemoa

    *comes back*

    My mother did an exceptional mistake, she should have divorced my dad and gone back to her country. I would have ended up like Ida Corr, Georgina Kwayke or Freema Agyeman but I didn’t. And look! The first two are already married to white Euro guys and gave birth to at least one fair baby, whereas the last one is still playing the field. I’m stunted and grew up badly. Still, why meeeeee….

    I’m a head case.

    *runs away*

  236. Elspeth

    @ The Woman Margery:

    I have to agree with Alcestis that most of the women you linked to obviously have some cream in their coffee, LOL. No biggie, as my husband does also, though you wouldn’t know it at to look at him. His maternal family reunion is a celebration of hues.

    But here’s a woman named Nadege whose regimen my 18 year old swears by, her hair guru. Her hair is relaxed, but she is a quite obviously black woman with very long hair:

    http://africanhairblog.com/2011/04/15/meet-nadege/

  237. Novaseeker

    The general suggestion seems to be that there are those who are able to do it without repercussion (where policy doesn’t exist) if they wait until they have themselves established and their job image isn’t dictated by their beard (in other words, don’t interview with the facial hair), and be sure it’s exceeding well-groomed.

    Pretty much. I think if you want a nice, full beard in corporate America, you need to have a skillset that is more valued than your beard will be devalued. I wouldn’t recommend interviewing with a beard, or at least with anything other than a very meager one, and in all cases the beard should be well maintained (i.e., as above, washed/conditioned/combed daily, and trimmed regularly).

  238. Just Saying

    Some exceptionally attractive women can still be attractive with short hair (although they lose several points) – but the number is very very small – and I still wouldn’t date them. One of the women I used to see cut her hair without asking because “it was so hard to take care of”, I told her to call me when it was back to at least the middle of her back, and replaced her. I am not a democracy – I am a tyranny when it comes to dating. The women I see regularly must be attractive to me – that has several requirements, long hair is one of them, as are being thin, toned, and feminine in her actions.

    She can be as she wishes to be for herself – but if she expects to be with me, she lives by my rules. It is as simple as that. There are millions of women out there that I don’t give a second glance at – those few that are with me, live by my rules, or they are gone. I guess they get something out of being with me that is worth that as the one that cut her hair sends me photos of her hair – it’s just past her shoulders, still too short by at least 6 inches. Of course, she has been replaced – so when it’s back to where it was, I may see her when I have the time, but she won’t be one of my regulars. There are consequences to actions – something a lot of women do not seem to grasp. But they do eventually….

    My favorite woman at the moment, has naturally curly hair down to her waist and a body to kill for. I love her hair, as well as every other part of her. Of course, some parts receive more attention than others, but that is off topic. :)

  239. The Woman Margery

    @alcestiseshtemoa: “I clicked on the link and saw that those women are dark yellow to medium brown-skinned. They’re not black.

    You’re taking “black” faaaar too literally here. These women are African-American which is used interchangeably with “black”. And it’s what they identify as which is precisely why I used it.

    @Elspeth: “I have to agree with Alcestis that most of the women you linked to obviously have some cream in their coffee”

    LOL I have never heard that term before “cream in their coffee”! I’ve been called “white chocolate” though. I agree that a lot of the women I linked to are mixed in one way or another. But it doesn’t negate the point, of course. Another point too often missed is that not all black women have the same type of hair. Do all white women? Curl type comes into play here, again.

  240. The Woman Margery

    @alcestiseshtemoa: “Sun-Saharan African women with natural long hair aren’t typical.”

    Because it’s cut, not because they can’t grow it. Which is entirely the point. It can be grown it just isn’t for one of two or both reasons 1) style 2) it’s over-processed thus extremely damaged thus can’t be grown out.

    Or, to agree with Elspeth: “It is commonly accepted that the reasons black women tend to have shorter hair is largely because we tend to abuse and overprocess it. Not because we can’t grow hair, LOL. Whoever heard of such a thing???”

    Right. It seems like common sense but, at the same time, I can see why people are still confused about it. You don’t see a lot of natural black/AA hair out there.

  241. Mary Ellen (@WorkingHomeKpr)

    RE black women and hair growth: Black women can and do grow hair. We grow hair on other parts of our body after all! If one is healthy, your hair should grow. The issue is not one of growth, but retention. Over-processing, heat, coloring, etc. can lead to damage/breakage thus making it seem as if the hair isn’t growing/getting longer.

  242. bike bubba

    Alcestis, loved the “how to grow hair” video, but having thought you’d recently married, call me perplexed about your thing for men with red beards.

    I’m also loving the discussion about whether blacks can grow hair. It reminds me of upstairs areas at Jenison Fieldhouse, which featured a lot of pictures of star players from the 1970s on Jud Heathcote’s teams. Suffice it to say that those young black men could grow some serious hair. Plus, a lot of young ladies I knew when I was there also grew some serious hair. Some defied our knowledge of physics with an amount of AquaNet that enabled their coiffures to withstand 50mph winds. It was impressive.

  243. Mary Ellen (@WorkingHomeKpr)

    Elspeth: “Until I decided when I was 21 to chop it off, extra short and relax it. My husband (we were dating at the time) was not happy with me. Thankfully it wasn’t a deal breaker.”

    Me, too! From childhood until early 20′s, my hair was mid-back length (under my Momma’s expert care!). In college, I damaged it with heat and my stylist at the time recommended a short cut (similar to Halle Berry early 90′s cut). My husband didn’t express it at the time (we were dating) but he didn’t like that it was shaven in the back near the hair line. I would never do that now of course, knowing his preference for hair length.

  244. lovelyleblanc7

    @alcestiseshtemoa: Yes, I’m a very mixed kid since both of my parents are mixed. My dad is 1/2 Hispanic (his mom is from Venezuela) , 1/4 Chinese, and 1/4 French. My mom is half Indian, half black Caribbean. I still call myself black though because I look black. I never thought I looked multi racial, even though I am.
    I’ll admit that my skin color changes significantly throughout the season, during the winter I can be two shades lighter and in the summer (my gravatar) darker. It never bothers me though, unless I’m shopping for makeup.
    That being said, I didn’t know black was used interchangeably for African. I just assumed black was being dark skinned, it didn’t matter where you came from.
    I have two white friends (who speak French) and their from Africa. Also, my old martial arts teacher (he is white) was from South Africa and he had the African accent and everything! haha

  245. lovelyleblanc7

    I have a relaxer in my hair (chemicals) and I use a flat iron. My hair still grows fine. Yeah, it would probably grow faster if I went all natural, but it is growing at a decent pace now.

  246. Elspeth

    (similar to Halle Berry early 90′s cut)

    What makes us do that???

    @ Lovely:

    I abstain from direct heat styling unless I’m in a hurry. Steam rollers are my curl method of choice.

    Especially now that I’m trying to recover some length. Pre-poo treatments, long stretched between relaxers, the whole deal. If hair grows 6 inches per year (on average) I’m hoping that in 6-9 months, with extra careful treatment, I’ll get my hair back. Husband would certainly be pleased.

    One of my girls (19) did it, cut off all her relaxed hair last year May. It’s really pretty volumous now and is long when she blow dries it out, but there are all the challenges that come with natural black hair. She makes it look really good, though. I was shoicked at how fast it grew. I wasn’t expecting that.

    I have no intention of going all natural. I’m too old to be starting over, LOL.

  247. lovelyleblanc7

    @Elspeth: Staying away from heat would be good, but if you grow 3 inches in 6 months let me know how because that is quite the challenge! Good Luck! :)
    Sometimes I think I would go all natural, but for now, I think my hair is pretty healthy with a relaxer. My sister wears her hair all natural with the fro. It is really cute since she has big soft curls.
    Your daughter is still young so, her hair can be super long since it is in our 20s (I heard) that our hair starts growing the fastest.

  248. tguven

    Long hair is ornamental, period, given that it has no specific function and must be cared for. Given that male-pattern baldness is so common, it isn’t included as part of the typical standard of appearance for men, but if a man has enough hair to cover his head, long, lovely, strong, shiny curls add just as much to his looks as they would to a woman’s beauty. If any face happens to be a work of art, it needs a suitably splendid frame. The men who are most renowned for having long hair are also renowned for having the most women at their disposal, which isn’t a coincidence. We know it’s about as rare as a woman with measurements of 36-24-36, but if it’s at all possible, we’d like something pretty to look at, too.

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  251. IndigoLamprey

    I found this very interesting. I hadn’t even noticed until several years ago when my girlfriend was going to get a trim and mentioned that she hated going. When I asked why, she said that all the women at the salon were telling her she should cut her hair much shorter than what it was (a bit below the middle of her back). Even though she refuses their suggestions, they always manage to cut it much shorter than what she wants. Now, I don’t know if these women are feminists, but we both believed that they were cutting it shorter to reduce competition.

  252. Antex

    What’s bad in reducing competition in hair? However i don’t think this is the real reason, I like both long and short hair, because women have the right to change their look, like men.

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  254. Alexa

    NEWS FLASH: This is the 21st century, and not everything is about pleasing men anymore. Some women don’t dress a certain way or wear their hair a certain way for the male gaze. Some women actually do things for themselves because THEY LIKE IT (gasp!).

  255. Jana

    @ Alexa

    I agree that women do things for themselves because they like it, of course they do. However, my question to you, is why shouldn’t her husband’s (boyfriend’s) opinion matter? Also, what is so terribly wrong about pleasing what should be the most important person in your life?

  256. Nicki

    @Jana Of course it matters! But it’s HER hair, not his, and the fact that some men go so far as to break up with their girls because they cut their hair short is ridiculous! UNCONDITIONAL love. That’s what it should be about. If you LOVE someone you’re not going to care. You may like longer hair better but you’re not going to leave them. And shouldn’t he be concerned about pleasing YOU? It is NOT all about what the man in the relationship wants. Sure, I might ask, but if it’s something I really want it’s something I’m going to do. It’s essentially the same argument years ago that women couldn’t wear pants because pants were for men.

  257. Coastal Mama

    I think most celebrities have short hair, even when they have long hair. Remember now, they use weaves, extensions and all that jazz. And yes LLB,

  258. Coastal Mama

    And yes LLB, black people can grow super duper long hair. My brother in law’s locks are at his bottom and his mother’s are to her knees. She has never in her life cut her hair.

  259. FuzzieWuzzie

    I guess someone has to pick up the gauntlet that you have cast down. SSM’s advice for long hair is good. Wider appeal would give the individual woman more options. That sounds like a good thing and no harm is done in the process.
    Being a bear, we have fur and its length is self regulating. Not an option for us.

  260. Sally

    I really don’t know how I managed to stumble upon this crappy thread …but WOW … All I can say to the majority of you is, please for the good of the human race STAY IN THAT CAVE YOU OBVIOUSLY LIVE IN … Oh, and stop hiding behind that blanket you call “religion”, People like you are giving it a bad name!

    God have mercy on you all.

  261. Alex

    Your criticisms mean nothing if you’re doing the same thing as the folks you’re critiquing for their (nonsensical) “ulterior motives.” Some people look great with short hair, some people don’t. Even if someone does it, that’s none of yours or anyone else’s business. Everyone should do their hair however they please, and the world would be a lot nicer if whole blogs weren’t devoted to telling women what to do with their bodies.

  262. imagirl

    What do gay men and feminists have to gain from convincing young women to cut their hair? Are gay men jealous of all the “yummy” male attention? I’ve never had hair below my shoulders and I’ve never lacked for male attention EVER. Still don’t and I’m well into middle age. Oh, yeah. So is Halle Berry. I don’t think she’s ever lacked male attention. There really isn’t anything inherently feminine about long hair. Some women look good with it, some don’t.

  263. Pingback: More on short haired women | Julian O'Dea

  264. Jo

    Many men would prefer a confident woman who wears her hair as she pleases to a woman who commits to a labor-intensive hairstyle to pander to men.

  265. Farm Boy

    Many men would prefer a confident woman who wears her hair as she pleases to a woman who commits to a labor-intensive hairstyle to pander to men.

    If by “confident” you mean “assertive with moxie”, then no.

    If by “confident”, you mean “intelligent and demure”, then yes.

  266. Farm Boy

    Many men would prefer a confident woman who wears her hair as she pleases to a woman who commits to a labor-intensive hairstyle to pander to men.

    After further analysis, men prefer women who make them sammiches.

  267. JDG

    All you drive by fembots report to the kitchen for sammich duty. Double duty if your hair is short. Triple duty if you think everything is all about you. Okay, triple duty it is.

  268. Julian O'Dea

    I like short hair but not for feminist reasons.

    Feminists, it is not about you, petals.

    Feminists are about as attractive as a single dirty sock.

  269. FuzzieWuzzie

    Julian, a lot of this pushback may stem from the feminist attitude that men are not allowed to judge and that goes double for imposing conditions.
    However did we get demoted to the position of junior partner? I didn’t get that memo.
    Come on, ladies, we’re allowed to have an opinion.

  270. Ton

    One of my girls has short hair and she looks amazing. One of, if not the most feminine woman I’ve ever enjoyed. I tell her she is a genetic freak because…. not so much for the rest of the short hair girls of the world

  271. Pingback: How feminism spreads from a few unhappy women to many previously-happy women. | Sunshine Mary

  272. Cheryl

    Long hair shows a woman is obedient to God. That is in the Bible: 1 Corinthians 11:3-16, to give you the reference. All of the people who are telling women to cut it, are rebelling against God, and resent that others are not. Lesbians, homosexual men and femi-nazis cringe at any mention of Christianity. So ladies honor your men by honring God :)

  273. Carolyn

    Jennifer Lawrence looked pretty before, now she looks like sonic the hedgehog. Is that what you mean by edgy? Not for me, ewwww :(

  274. Cheryl

    @Julian O’Dea stated: “I don’t see a moral or scriptural argument against short hair on women.”

    Well then crack open your Bible to 1 Corinthians 1: 3-15 I would say you should read the Bible directly rather than conjecture. Specifically verse 15, as her hair is covering given to her. Putting a shawl over her head still leaves her head uncovered, and it is shameful for her to cut her hair short. So therefore she should not pray in that condition. Looks quite clear to me. Here is the wording directly from the Bible.

    3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

    So if you profess to be a Christian, then you would honor the Word Of God. So if you be a woman and think God loves your short haircut….
    Ummm, not. You have separated yourself from God. And if you are a man that professes to be a Christian, why would you want your lady to be shamed in the eyes of God?

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