When we get to the feminist utopia in Abilene, all the plumbers will be women.

Every once in a while, feminists acknowledge reality.  Unfortunately, they nearly always draw incorrect conclusions from the reality they see because every failing of women must be construed as being due to oppression by men.  A case in point is this article by Sesali Bowen published at Feministing yesterday:

Are sexism and pay disparities sending women to college?

I was raised by an educator. My Granny was a teacher and my sister followed her career path, later becoming an assistant principal. Growing up I wasn’t disciplined for too many things  was disciplined the most for fucking up in school. If my mother or grandmother got word that I was even late for a class too many times I could expect to grounded swiftly. For my parents (my grandmother was one of my parents), education was the righteous path and college was the promised land. When senior year of high school came around I had already decided which school I wanted to go, which ones I would apply to so I’d have options, and which program of study I would enter upon my arrival. Back then, when I had dreams of being a fancy OB-GYN, I was sure that my family was right: that a college education was the only right way to go after high school.

Imagine my surprise then to find out that it would really take 2 major changes, one semester off school (and unemployed), plus a transfer to another institution to get me to through the 6 year (SIX YEAR!) struggle that left me $60,000 in debt. Needless to say, I’m no longer wrapped up in the romance novel happy ending that college is supposed to offer. I think that schools and parents should be equipping students with information, support, and resources to develop sustainable plans for their futures, especially if college is not an option.

I was impressed with her first two paragraphs.  Captain Capitalism has been writing about this for at least five years (for an example, see this post from 2008,  The price-to-earnings ratio of a college degree, or any of his more recent posts on the same subjects).  Miss Bowen seemed to be on the verge of drawing a reasonable conclusion, which is not something I have come to expect from most feminists.  Oh, but wait; she isn’t finished yet:

recent NPR story, however, is reporting that parents aren’t feeling the support pour in for daughters who might join in on the collective “fuck college” cry.

A new poll from NPR, the Harvard School of Public Health and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation finds that the majority of parents feel their child’s school is preparing students for college. But 4 in 10 say that schools do not sufficiently prepare students who will not attend college — and parents of girls are even more likely to be concerned than parents of boys…

Many Trades Remain Male-Dominated

Students today face the same question, and it’s especially frustrating for young women, Simpson says. They face more hurdles, both real and perceived. Women, after all, are still a tiny minority in well-paying trades like plumbing, welding and masonry.”

The gender wage gap is obviously real and can haunt women in the workforce, especially in the long run. But I wonder if this cycle is fed before women even enter the workforce. Is it more feasible for a woman to go on to college right after high school because our society is telling them that they aren’t good with their hands? Is it because they don’t see themselves represented in fields where that’s what’s required? Is it because their families are not supporting their choices to enter fields like “masonry” and plumbing? Or is it because we, as a society aren’t able to create a narrative of success that doesn’t revolve a degree of higher education? I’m willing to bet that it’s a dangerous combination of all of these.

As an adult, I’d like to re-envision the role of guidance counselors at high schools. One that obviously does not support sexist about where women should/shouldn’t or can/can’t work. Guidance counselors should help students create a sustainable plan for their future, at least for the next few years. And that plan should take their strong skills, interests, and socioeconomic position into consideration; in addition to their grades and behavioral rap sheets.

Actually, guidance counselors used to do exactly this – take into consideration a student’s skills, potential, and preferences – but liberals, including feminists, decided that this was both racist and sexist and that all women and all minorities had to get university degrees.  Having all but destroyed the value of a university degree, feminists now have their sights set on the skilled trades. 

Actually, not only is there nothing stopping young women from going into fields like masonry and plumbing, but many community colleges and trade schools have special grants for women who enter training programs for traditionally-male fields.  There are even organizations to increase women’s participation in occupations like trucking.

But despite all this extra support, women still tend to avoid the skilled trades.  Even though I strongly support guidance counselors encouraging high school students to pursue alternatives to four-year universites, I doubt if even that would make much of an impact on the representation of women in the skilled trades.  And why is that?

It is because women and men are not the same.  Our very brains are wired differently.  Men on average are going to continue to make up most plumbers, mechanics, truck drivers, and electricians. Women are going to make up the majority of pre-school teachers, hair stylists, and secretaries.  But it is unacceptable to feminists to admit that there is any biological basis for the differences between men and women’s preferences and behavior.  Therefore any differences are the result of socialization, and those differences must be eradicated, no matter how much money it costs or how unhappy it makes both men and women.

It was feminists who decided that all women should have “careers” and university degrees instead of becoming wives and mothers.  That is working out really badly for lower IQ, working class, and poor women.  So the solution to this, according to Miss Bowen, is apparently for higher IQ women to continue wasting the whole of their youthful, fertile years getting degrees and pursuing careers in business, medicine, and law, while lower IQ women will be pushed into the skilled trades, fields that they don’t even like and have little aptitude for, in order to fulfill the feminist utopian vision of a gender-free world, even if it makes women miserable.

Feminism: always making things worse for working-class women.

Further Reading:

How much farther to Abilene?

Maybe feminists have a secret money tree in Abilene.

When we get to the Feminist Utopia in Abilene, will there still be no male-female pay gap?

180 thoughts on “When we get to the feminist utopia in Abilene, all the plumbers will be women.

  1. thegreatshebang

    I think feminists will fail easily to change the ratio of gender employment in the trades. Women look unsexy as mechanics and plumbers – in addition it doesn’t serve their Hypergamy. Women just won’t do it.

    However , since women don’t like marrying tradesmen, since it doesn’t serve their Hypergamy, unless the men are very attractive or have a trade TV show, in a way the feminists have already destroyed the trades as a source of pride for men and a path to a successful family.

  2. Guest

    How would a guidance counselor even know if a girl would be good as a plumber? They ahve a caseload of about 400 kids. And who listens to guidance counselors anyway?

  3. Sis

    I would think it would be dangerous to send a woman into an unknown home to fix the plumbing. How will she be protected against attacks if men live there?

    It requires a lot of hand strength to be a mechanic. This doesn’t make sense.

  4. Mariah8

    Could just start with the mistaken premise that it is the guidance counseler/schools job to instruct my children on where they might be most successful in life…..Unless my kids(and we have each gender) have a burning desire to be a professional, we are pushing them both towards a trade/business.

  5. Anonymous Reader

    I like this. I really do. I believe that feministing should actively encourage young women to enter the skilled trades, such as plumbing, HVAC, and so forth. The various scribblers should lead by example, starting with Mz Bowen herself.

    Oh, wait, that’s not what she meant, is it? She didn’t mean that she should risk getting dirty hands and broken nails, oh, no, but rather that some vaguely undefined collection of young women should do so.

    In other words, “Do as I say, not as I do”.

    Well, that’s certainly a new idea in the history of feminism, isn’t it?

    [ssm: This is Miss Bowen:

    http://feministing.com/members/sesali/

    Miss Bowen

    Hey, I think she looks like she could snake a drain, don't you? lol. Or maybe not.]

  6. sunshinemary Post author

    @ thegreatshebang

    However , since women don’t like marrying tradesmen, since it doesn’t serve their Hypergamy, unless the men are very attractive or have a trade TV show, in a way the feminists have already destroyed the trades as a source of pride for men and a path to a successful family.

    Good point. Of course, as has been pointed out before, feminism truly seeks to destroy the family; destroying men’s status as the leaders, providers, and protectors of their families furthers that objective.

    @ Sis

    I would think it would be dangerous to send a woman into an unknown home to fix the plumbing. How will she be protected against attacks if men live there?

    Agreed. Feminists are not about making things better for women. It is irrelevant to feminist objectives that women’s lives be improved in any way; if they actually cared about women, we would see feminists cautioning women against dangerous behaviors like getting drunk and hooking up, but we don’t see them doing this. That is because the overarching goal of feminism is not to improve women’s lives but rather to create a Marxist utopia. If women have to be endangered in order to create that utopia, so be it.

    That is why I always conclude these essays by saying that feminism makes everything worse for women.

  7. Jana

    Most women don’t have the strength required to do most of these jobs nor are women attracted to them. I helped my husband put in new flooring in our house, and although I liked it, I could barely feel my back by the end and it was some serious hard work (definitely could lead to health issues)

  8. TempestTcup

    When I was in high school, in the 1970s before everyone had to go to college, most of my friends went to Vo-Tech and went into things like dental tech. One friend took graphic design and worked in JC Penney’s ad department for decades. It was a good program because you could be trained in high school and then they will place you in a job when you graduate.

    The choices aren’t doctor or plumber, there are many many careers in between. It’s just that feminists have to take everything to such an extreme to make their points. If there aren’t more women plumbers, it’s because more women don’t want to be plumbers.

    [ssm: Possibly their objection is that traditionally-female Voc Ed programs lead to jobs (i.e. Dental Tech) that pay somewhat less than traditionally-male Voc Ed programs (i.e. Electrician) do. But that is because the traditionally-male jobs are much harder! They seem to overlook that fact, don't they?]

  9. sunshinemary Post author

    I have no objection to women being in the skilled trades IF they truly want to be and IF they are competent at it and physically and mentally able to handle the job. But if that is the case, why aren’t more women taking advantage of all the grants and preferences already in place to entice them into the skilled trades? There is no sexism here. It is simply that women do not want to do these jobs or are not physically able to do them.

    What I object to is feminists wasting everyone’s time and money trying to push women into yet another field that they will not like and will generally not be good at.

  10. bike bubba

    Good comments on the issues of strength and safety, and it’s worth noting that even men wear out from the trades–the traditional path is to move from doing the everyday plumbing/HVAC/mechanics’ job into owning one’s own shop or becoming a supervisor/buyer/etc.. However, if we learn from womens’ experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, we will ordinarily see women “wear out” more quickly, so they’re going to get to the “need to quit doing this” stage before they’re ready, financially and skills-wise, to take the next step.

    So we’ll see women without kids, without a husband, without a job, without skills needed to get a job, and without the physical capability to do something to make ends meet. Why do feminists hate women so much?

    [ssm: An excellent question worthy of consideration. Why DO feminists hate women so much?]

  11. everybodyhatesscott

    Feminists really can’t comprehend how much weaker women are than men. I’ve done some basic work on my car and some basic plumbing and it takes some upper body strength. Get this woman under a car and have her change some brakes. Walk her through it and see if she can physically do it herself.

  12. Anonymous Reader

    SSM, it appears that Mz. Bowen’s dream of becoming an OB-GYN did not materialize, perhaps because that career path is more demanding than she realized. I wonder what degree she obtained for her $60K in debt, and what financial return it provides?

    And no, I do not think she is well suited to crawling under things and wrenching on pipes. If the sullen expression in her image is her normal, “resting face” then I would not hire her to do anything, frankly, as she looks and writes as a rather entitled person.

  13. jg1

    It is really a pity that feminists have succeeded in convincing women to be ashamed of their own gender and femininity. They have a done a horrible job in trying to turn women into faux men.

  14. earl

    “Why DO feminists hate women so much?”

    It goes back to a line that is food for thought.

    “Don’t try to understand women. Women understand women and they hate each other.”

  15. Southern Man

    The STEM and CS fields (which I teach at college) are always under fire for not having enough women. We have woman-only scholarships and woman-only tutors and special study sessions for women. We pay their way and hold their hand all the way through. And yet my more analytic classes are pretty much all guys, all struggling to pay their own way ’cause there are already too many guys in STEM and CS. But God forbid we should get more men in k-12 classrooms or social services or HR.

    My last university wanted me to offer woman-only sections of difficult classes. I flat out refused and they backed down, but that’s coming as well.

  16. Cautiously Pessimistic

    @ssm- “I have no objection to women being in the skilled trades IF they truly want to be and IF they are competent at it and physically and mentally able to handle the job.

    You know, I used to have this attitude, but what I see happening again and again is that women get into a job, aren’t competent at it, and demand that the job requirements change. And you can’t fire them just because they can’t do the work, so the job is either done half-assed or it’s done by a man, in addition to whatever work he’s supposed to be doing.

    I’ve seen this happen so often that I’m at the point of saying “Screw it. Keep women out.” Good job, Feminism!

  17. bike bubba

    OK, I’m going to be rather blunt here. If Miss Bowen’s physique is indicated by her face, ain’t no way she’s going to make it in the skilled trades. Not unless she drops at least 50 lbs. And quite frankly, ain’t no way she’s going to be a good obstetrician with that physique, either. Her physical limitations are not limited to those common among women.

  18. alcestiseshtemoa

    Apologies if I’m blunt but Miss Bowen is a bit ugly. Not ugly as in freaking hideous, but it’s more like slightly bordering on distasteful.

    [ssm: And my reason for posting her photo wasn't to make fun of her looks; there is nothing wrong with her face that a smile wouldn't fix. Rather, it was to show that she is a typical woman, with styled hair, makeup, maybe a fancy manicure. She isn't going to be cut out for work that involves getting dirty and crawling around in basements and under sinks.]

  19. Anonymous Reader

    Southern Man
    The STEM and CS fields (which I teach at college) are always under fire for not having enough women. We have woman-only scholarships and woman-only tutors and special study sessions for women. We pay their way and hold their hand all the way through.

    A friend of mine used to be a dept. chair in a STEM major at a state U. Plenty of students had to go through remedial math and english classes despite having an adequate ACT. There were constant fights with higher ups over retention, especially retention of women students, while at the same time accreditation and employer demands to keep the quality of graduates up.

    Open enrollment, high retention, quality graduates – pick any two.

    As I understand it, the number of women enrolling in CS has declined slightly for a few years, and this is a panic / crisis because sexism, horrors. The blank-slate, interchangeability of men and women, premise is very strong even in men and women who claim to be dispassionate observers of fact. I suspect this won’t change very quickly, despite such scientific evidence as the recent “men and women have different brains” headline. Because it is very difficult for humans over 30 to decide “Hey, that idea I believed for years? It’s junk”, especially if there is emotional investment involved.

    It would be interesting to do entrance and exit interviews of CS students, just to determine area of interest. I speculate that women would be more scarce in the areas such as interval computation, computability in general, algorithms, automata theory, etc. but that’s just my own SWAG. Of course, if the results showed what I expect, they’d be unpublishable in the current academic environment.

    Because contradicting the blank-slate is crimethink.

  20. FuzzieWuzzie

    Upstream, Bike Bubba noted that the trades wear men out. So, a career in these occupations does have a limited time horizon. How much shorter for a woman? He is correct in noting that making the transition to the higher levels wouldn’t happen because of limits on experience.

  21. alcestiseshtemoa

    Please don’t go into a trade Miss Bowen. When I’m using my car, I want for it to work and not break down, when I’m flying on an airplane I don’t want it to crash and when I’m using the toilet at home, I want for it to work properly and flush itself out. Your inability will probably cost time at least, and human lives at the worst.

  22. Days of Broken Arrows

    I wish women would get into plumbing. I’d get less calls to help fix the toilet (for the record I’m not a plumber, just good around the house).

    [ssm: You know what aspect of plumbing repairs women are awesome at? Holding the flashlight so the man who is fixing the leaky pipe can see what he is doing.]

  23. jg1

    I agree with southerman. Carnegie Mellon,Harvey Mudd College are already having ramp up classes for female STEM majors in programming classes at the freshman level. At the time I was an undergrad, the women who had a 2.7 gpa in the engineering school were given full tuition scholarships which included their books for their entire college career. It is interesting that sometime ago the former dean of admissions at MIT said in a speech somewhere that after she got male/female ratio at the school to 50/50 that inventions coming out of the “rogue labs” by “rogue students” have come to a standstill. Apparently everything is team work at MIT. She wonders why the innovation from the “rogue labs” stopped??

  24. Matthew King

    To break it down into something even more basic:

    Many Trades Remain Male-Dominated

    Implicit in the choice of the word “Remain” is the presumption of progress. This is known as “Historicism,” invented by Rousseau, given shape by Hegel, and made practical through Marx. It is the basis of the Frankfurt School, the progressive movement, feminism, and all of the left. It is, like all great evils, the bowdlerizing of Christianity without the Christ, specifically in its eschatology, the grand narrative from “In the beginning” to “The Last Judgment” made secular and therefore murderous.

    That these journalistic and intellectual choices are not really choices but rather inherited/unconscious instincts makes their promulgation especially insidious. To be a conservative is to be against the presumption of Historicism, that all things come together to serve a particular human agenda, and that to oppose this dehumanization is to be “on the wrong side of history” (another favorite trope designed to scandalize the very possibility of analysis and criticism against their charge into the abyss).

    Understand that these topical controversies are microcosmic manifestations of a war that has been raging for all of modernity. You will then be in a better position to do more than merely defeat them. You will deracinate them once and for all.

    “Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” — Luke 3:9

    Matt

    [ssm: Excellent comment.]

  25. earl

    I get the safety issue.

    What about the problem solving issue? (Brace your self…misogynist rant here)

    Everytime I see a woman run into a problem she hasn’t seen before…she either needs a man to help her through it (or fix it) or she breaks down. Every trade job has in it a level of problem solving. There isn’t one make of car with a certain problem….same with plumbing and ac-heating. There is different designs and different problems.

    There was times I never fixed a certain thing before or ran into a new problem…but I used my imagination to figure out a solution. I very rarely see this ability in women.

    [ssm: We are good at using our imagination to figure out solutions to problems related to the tasks God created us to perform. But feminists denigrate the tasks women were designed for; it is almost as if they have a low opinion of women or something. Only male tasks have value to feminists, so we women are supposed to leave our own God-ordained work undone and try to shove men out of the way so that we can do a crappy job at their tasks, which we mostly hate doing anyway.

    When women compete with men at male tasks, we will always show our inferiority. When we do the tasks women were designed for, then we can demonstrate some competence.]

  26. deti

    @ Jana:

    “Most women don’t have the strength required to do most of these jobs nor are women attracted to them. I helped my husband put in new flooring in our house, and although I liked it, I could barely feel my back by the end and it was some serious hard work (definitely could lead to health issues)”

    Ha. Actually, one might say their attraction isn’t implied.

    [ssm: I lol'd :)]

  27. dannyfrom504

    “Growing up I wasn’t disciplined for too many things was disciplined the most for fucking up in school.”

    DAMN. when did you start working blue? lol.

    what a co-inky-dink. when i retire i’m going to welding school. the 2 disciplines i plan on learning will cost a combined $7500 and will take less than 6 months to complete. i plan on working 5-6 months a year. the rest of the time i’ll be at my hunting camp sleeping late, hunting, fishing, and tending to the micro farm.

  28. pb

    one AAA auto care center has a few women on its staff, they probably have the ed to be mechanics since they can answer some technical questions? (could be wrong in my assessment) But they’re doing cust service work in the office.

  29. Jeremy

    @deti

    Ha. Actually, one might say their attraction isn’t implied.

    I don’t understand Deti, shouldn’t attraction to those jobs be implied from how much those jobs are needed? It’s not like a stopped drain is going to fix itself, so why wouldn’t someone be attracted to the thing they need?

  30. Farm Boy

    When we get to the feminist utopia in Abilene, all the plumbers will be women.

    That would make sense, as females have more complex and problematic internal plumbing.

    It might take one to know one.

  31. Jeremy

    @Farm Boy

    That would make sense, as females have more complex and problematic internal plumbing.

    It might take one to know one.

    Women just can’t snake drains the same way.

    /ok, innuendo off.

  32. Anonymous Reader

    jeremy
    Women just can’t snake drains the same way.

    [feminista-rant]
    Yes, they can! Can too! The drain doesn’t care the gender of the snaker, and gender is a social construct anyway, so … wow, just wow, do you read yourself? Women’s drain snakes are just like men’s only smaller but they are just as good!!!!!!!!!
    [/feminista-rant]

    [ssm: Feminism = Snake Envy]

  33. earl

    @SSM…

    I would say women are much better at problem solving human type things that involve emotions. Like why a kid is crying and stuff.

    Why your car is broken…better find a man.

  34. Mariah8

    Agree with SSM that problem solving tends to be realm/situational related. My husband is very calm and good at problem solving at times but sometimes not so much. It very much depends on the circumstances. At least that is my reasoning behind why my husband and FIL stood and watched the oven on fire on Thanksgiving, it was the kitchen, therefore not their realm! On the other hand, they came in handy when I handed them the fire extinguisher after I couldn’t figure out how to pull the pin.

  35. Anonymous Reader

    But Elspeth, but Elspeth, you and your daughters are the target market for such writing. Because “keepin’ it real”, or something. Don’t let her down, push your daughters into $50K or more of useless .edu debt, or make them all plumbers. Anything…anything but that awful “get-married-have-children-stay-married” idea, because Teh Patriarchy.

    Really, Elspeth, you’re overdue for some consciousness raising. The SWPL feminists at feministing can surely do the job. Or they can try…

  36. The Feminist Whisperer

    @Mariah

    The kitchen is very much part of this man’s realm: Fire, sharp knives. power tools galore, instructions to ignore, BACON – why wouldn’t a man want to claim the kitchen?

    Laundry on the other hand…I KNOW I can make this all fit into one load if I just push a little more….

  37. Jeremy

    @Mariah8
    At least that is my reasoning behind why my husband and FIL stood and watched the oven on fire on Thanksgiving, it was the kitchen, therefore not their realm!

    Sometimes there is tremendous awe in seeing someone start a fire in their own home, it’s not unlike watching an olympic sprinter trip and fall.

  38. earl

    “That would make sense, as females have more complex and problematic internal plumbing.”

    They seem to clog it up more than fixing the clog.

  39. Just Saying

    “It is because women and men are not the same.”

    In a nut-shell that is what it all boils down to. Feminists HATE that simple fact, yet it is everywhere around you. Most men do not understand just how weak women are at certain tasks that require upper body strength. That same difference in strength equates to other fundamental differences – which if the Feminists acknowledge that reality – they have to acknowledge that all of the distortions to the economic environment to get certain pre-ordained outcomes make no logical sense because it isn’t desirable for either men or women.

  40. Dalrock

    @Anon Reader

    I like this. I really do. I believe that feministing should actively encourage young women to enter the skilled trades, such as plumbing, HVAC, and so forth. The various scribblers should lead by example, starting with Mz Bowen herself.

    Oh, wait, that’s not what she meant, is it? She didn’t mean that she should risk getting dirty hands and broken nails, oh, no, but rather that some vaguely undefined collection of young women should do so.

    In other words, “Do as I say, not as I do”.

    It always cracks me up when feminist women with the most stereotypical female jobs (gossiping, writing about fashion, telling other women what they should do) write with a straight face how other women should break the stereotypical mold. I’ve done enough plumbing around the house and helping out buddies to know that plumbers earn every dollar they charge. She literally can’t imagine what it would be like to snake out a backed up toilet or crawl under a sink with a pipewrench to do even the most basic repairs.

    Along the same lines, my wife found this post a few months back: http://www.thefrisky.com/2013-07-26/i-tried-to-play-feminist-barbies-with-my-nieces-and-kinda-failed/

    The author can’t see the irony in playing Pediatric Oncologist when her actual job is gossiping about fashion and the lives of other women. The little girls in question wanted to play the same way she lives, and she can’t understand why.

  41. Farm Boy

    They seem to clog it up more than fixing the clog.

    The V-knitter from a few post ago may be onto something. The yarn formed a snake-like device that cleaned her out.

  42. Opus

    Here is my plumbing story from this very day. As you will see it could not play out this way had the plumber been female: By luck I am up early, and I hear what I think is taping at the communal door – I can’t understand how that can be, so in my dressing gown (and nothing else) I go down and unlock the door, but there is no one there, nevertheless in the gloom I observe damp footprints, so there clearly was a person there. I leave the door unlocked. A few minutes later I hear footsteps inside (it is still dark – very dark) and I go down – the internal lighting is not very reliable – and there is a man, a large man in overalls. He is a plumber and has entered next door saying he is there to switch off the water so as to prevent frost damage. I am pleased to see him as I fear I have inadvertently misdirected a letter addressed to me (through next doors letter box). That apartment being empty and now having access courtesy of the plumber I can check for my missing letter, so I am scrambling around on the floor gathering-up and going through the I suppose one or two hundred letters – still in my dressing gown and nothing else. He is getting on with his task and I with mine. We exchange useful information as I know the block and where the man-holes are and he understands plumbing.

    There is simply no way it would have been like that had the plumber been female. I would however have felt very uncomfortable had the plumber been female. Had the plumber been female I would have treated her as a woman and not as a plumber and probably made a pass at he, and I would have felt the need to dress first but there might not have been time. I am always however wary as to false allegations and thus I do not want to see female plumbers not that I can imagine one being up so early.

    There was no posing or small talk just two men forming a temporary partnership for mutual purposes.

  43. Artisanal Toad

    On the subject of plumbing, my father’s rule was that his sons should leave home knowing basic plumbing, basic electrical wiring, rough carpentry and how to maintain and do basic repairs on vehicles. He provided plenty of learning opportunities.

    As an adult I had a neighbor who got caught by an early freeze and one of the pipes underneath her house froze and broke. It spayed copious amounts of water before she figured out what was going on. Several plumbers came out, looked at the problem and either shook their heads or quoted her a price so outrageous she had to say no. That afternoon my wife asked me to go over and help her (she had already volunteered me). It involved laying on my back in the mud for half an hour replacing the broken section of pipe, getting soaking wet in the process. Temp was about 40-45 degrees by then. When finished, I yelled at her to turn the water back on. No leaks. I left the tools and the truck and walked back home.

    My wife had already been alerted by the time I made it home and I was practically hypothermic. I looked like I’d just run a spartan race. She hosed me off outside and I got in the shower to get warmed back up and after that sucked down a quart of hot soup. I was completely useless for the rest of the day.

    I cannot imagine a female plumber taking, much less completing that job. If she’d had the *ahem* natural insulation to withstand the cold she wouldn’t have fit into the crawlspace.

  44. FiftySeven

    I’m an offshore diver in the Gulf of Mexico. There aren’t very many females in this job; too labor intensive, too dirty, too dangerous. Not great for keeping things drama free, either. Last year, the boat I’m on had a new employee assigned to it; newbie was a female. Couple weeks later, we had to run her off– along with the supervisor she was sleeping with.

  45. Professor Hale

    How would a guidance counselor even know if a girl would be good as a plumber? They have a caseload of about 400 kids. And who listens to guidance counselors anyway?

    It’s not really a “caseload” if all you do is tell all of them, “go to college or your choice, here are the applications”.

    The trades are becoming dominated by immigrant men too. Not because they are skilled, but because they can learn OJT (reading the instructions) and are willing to be paid under the table.

    One cold November, the holding tank on my sewage system overflowed. I called a number in the phone book and a man came out with a big expensive truck. He had that truck, because he invested his savings into it long before I needed it. He used his expensive pumping truck to pump out my sewage tank. Then pulled the pump from my holding tank, covered with filth and fixed it for me on a cold November day. I am VERY happy that guy had picked that job instead of holding onto his dreams of being a rock star/F-15 pilot/gynecologist. Ladies, you want that job? Go for it.

  46. Just Saying

    “She was dressed like a sexy cat with whiskers drawn on her face, wearing a skimpy top, black stilettos and a miniskirt with the words “Meow! Meow!” written all over it.”

    Sounds like cos-play Barbie to me… Actually, I think I’ve met her at a couple of different conventions – lots of women with that outfit and cat-ears anyway… (Although they say, Nyah, Nyah – which I think is Japanese for Meow, meow…) Some of them will “clean” themselves (licking their “paws” and such, and rubbing their hair) much to the fascination of the somewhat sheltered guys who look like they are about to hemorrhage. :)

    I’ve always thought they need to host a Feminist convention and a Cos-play convention at the same venue at the same time and just sit back and watch hilarity ensue… As the Cos-play people they to fit the Feminists into their paradigm, and vice-versa.

  47. Artisanal Toad

    @Just Saying
    I’ve always thought they need to host a Feminist convention and a Cos-play convention at the same venue at the same time and just sit back and watch hilarity ensue… As the Cos-play people they to fit the Feminists into their paradigm, and vice-versa.

    I, for one, would pay money to see that. If they scheduled a slut-walk, I’d be there to cheer them on and hold up a sign saying how much men love sluts. (Tongue firmly in cheek there…)

  48. Anonymous Reader

    Martel, another word for “PUA convention” is “bar”…ever notice how most slutwalks are in daylight, not night, and never close to closing time? Probably just a coincidence…

  49. FuzzieWuzzie

    Feminists won’t be satisfied until every path to dignity for a man is gone. They may not be satisfied even then. Captain Capitalism’s core that he tries to address are twentysomethings. He boiled it down in a video to 1) career, 2) wife, and 3) family. Give them a reasonable shot at any of the three and they’ll have hope.
    Oh well.

  50. Jeremy

    Since we’re sharing plumbing stories…

    Last year I spent 8 months living on a friends sailing yacht. I asked for this situation deliberately, hoping to get a very good handle on what boat maintenance is like (turns out it isn’t that much more difficult than home maintenance, but probably 2x more expensive, and some of it is far more critical than home maintenance as homes can’t sink). It was literally the best living arrangement I’ve ever had, and I fully intend on purchasing my own such asset to live on as soon as financially possible.

    I had a lady friend who visited the marina often, and would come hang out with me often. Almost all boats have a septic tank on-board, with various pipes for flushing, flushing with seawater, venting, etc… This septic tank can be emptied in a few ways. You can either sail out a few miles, and flush your tank with seawater (common in boats that are used often), or you can motor over to a septic service and empty it (annoying if you’re already tied up), or you can pay a guy on a little tanker dinghy to come by once a week and clean out your tank. Well, if you know anything about septic tanks, you know that they MUST remain vented, you have to have some air-flow through the tank, or the bacteria can’t break things down and truly bad shit happens, like the tank can burst, or you can’t empty it out because the vent is so clogged, etc..etc..

    Well, my lady friend and I were dealing with the tank-meter which was totally non-linear and seemed to do a very very poor job showing full, while shooting up from empty to over half full on the first flush after being emptied. We managed to plug the vent (as near as we can tell). This necessitated having a midly-abrasive bottle-brush-like device inserted into the vent to get whatever was inside of it out as well as the tank be opened and things inside it be “broken up by hand”.

    Guess whose hand got to go into that shit? Yep, yours truly.

    On the plus side, I no longer fear any form of boat maintenance.

  51. Maeve

    Fuzzie said “Feminists won’t be satisfied until every path to dignity for a man is gone”

    This is so true because they have absolutely no respect for men. And they’re also not going to be satisfied until women are miserable either (because they really don’t have any respect for women either).
    They’re like Mikey from the Life Cereal commercial – “won’t eat it; hates everything”.

  52. Anonymous Reader

    Feminist syllogism number 1:

    “Men are happier than women.
    Women don’t do the same things men do.

    Therefore:
    If women do the things men do, they they will be as happy as men.”

    Any logicians are free to check my work, and form, if they wish.

  53. Velvet

    I would say women are much better at problem solving human type things that involve emotions. Like why a kid is crying and stuff.

    I’m not so sure.

    I was trained in a traditionally female field, but it is quasi-vocational, and my best instructors were men. My mentors were men, in design and construction and sales. My favorite architects and designers are men. The women who influence(d) me were usually partners with their husbands. Despite being quite artistic and disciplined, both of these women’s home furnishings lines went down quietly after just a few years, while their husbands work carries on well into a third decade. I think what I do is a skill like any other, at least the basics of which can be learned by just about anyone, but the nuts and bolts of it are a man’s territory. Every enduring thing must be built on a solid foundation.

    Thanks, boys!

  54. lovelyleblanc7

    I love how all the feminists who complain about how there aren’t enough female engineers, plumbers, construction workers, congresswoman, etc….aren’t any of those themselves. Feminists need to stop blaming men and realize that woman don’t want to do those jobs! Nobody is stopping them, there is no law that says a woman cannot do a certain job (woman can even go in the front line if they wanted to). I’m tired of hearing the complaints that there are not enough female CEOs. Truth is, woman would rather marry the CEO than be the CEO.
    I don’t see any problem with a woman doing a traditionally masculine job (except for combat, that should be reserved for men only). Though I will say that most masculine oriented jobs are for a reason, if a woman can think strategically like a man and has the physical strength of a man ….which most don’t…but by all means, if she does, then I don’t see a problem.
    We take the lady, for example, who wanted to be the OBGYN ( a good career) and changed her degree two times. What did she change it to? English Literature and Gender & Women’s Studies? LOL

  55. bike bubba

    OK, we’ve established that feminists hate both women and men–or at least are blissfully unaware of the disaster they’re preparing for both sexes. So who do they love?

    Cats, obviously. Unless, of course, they’re also making this a worse world for cats.

    Come to think of it, the economic collapse they’re helping to prepare just might work against cats, too. There ya go.

    And on the side, it is my goal to say something so beautifully as Elspeth did at 1:30. It may be a while, though. :^)

  56. earl

    “Cats, obviously. Unless, of course, they’re also making this a worse world for cats.”

    They are. They always want to cuddle with cats. Cats HATE cuddling.

  57. earl

    ““Men are happier than women.
    Women don’t do the same things men do.

    Therefore:
    If women do the things men do, they they will be as happy as men.”

    Any logicians are free to check my work, and form, if they wish.”

    I’d go…

    Therefore:
    Women must make men as miserable as they are by taking away the things that make men happy.

  58. FuzzieWuzzie

    One has to imagine when how they respond when the cat brings in a trophy to present to the pet human. This is the highest form of praise that a cat can bestow.
    I can hear it now. The “EEK!” heard round the world.

  59. lovelyleblanc7

    Also, it shouldn’t be surprising that jobs such as congressmen, pumblers, electricians, etc. are domintated by men. I mean, who invented the American government? electricity? Toilets? homes? All invented by men, only makes sense men know how to fix it. :)

    I agree with Elspeth. It is always the severely obese black woman with the attitude of “I’m an independent black woman and I don’t need no man,” that seem to define to rest us and ruin it for the rest of us too.

  60. Jeremy

    @lovelyleblanc7

    I agree with Elspeth. It is always the severely obese black woman with the attitude of “I’m an independent black woman and I don’t need no man,” that seem to define to rest us and ruin it for the rest of us too.

    Any woman who grew up without a father, and under the influence of a woman who had problems with her man, is going to operate with that mindset when she reaches adulthood. BBW only have higher numbers of this phenomenon because the black family was essentially destroyed by a plague of single-motherhood nearly 50 years ago.

  61. Maureen

    Total absurdity.

    What is completely obvious from her post is that she no understanding of what “the trades” entail.

    She’s never been inside a welding shop, she’s never sat in the cab of a semi, she’s never watched a mechanic at work. They are all physically demanding occupations (even truck driving) that not one woman out of a hundred could manage. And unlike in the police, fire or armed services, there are no “standards” to be “adapted” to take account of women’s inferior strength. You either CAN lift the steel rod and blowtorch for hours straight or you CANNOT.

    I’m no dainty flower, but I’ve struggled mightly (and many times without success) to loosen a rusted pipe fitting under the sink. A plumber? I don’t think so…and it has nothing to do with fear of poop.

    Can SOME women do these jobs? Maybe. But enough to support a large-scale (and something tells me government-funded) effort to attract more to the field? No.

    But THEY are the reality-based community.

    And 6 years to complete a college degree? Enough said.

  62. feeriker

    I mean, who invented the American government? electricity? Toilets? homes? All invented by men, only makes sense men know how to fix it..

    In looking at your first sentence, that old Sesame Street song popped into my head (“One of these things is not like the others, one of these things does not belong…”) Then it hit me. All of these things except the American government are things men invented that have BENEFITTED humanity. To include it in your list is akin to slipping cyanide into a list of nature’s heathiest foods.

    I guess we can all take some cold comfort in knowing that while men were responsible for inventing the American government, it took feminism to make it morph into the OOC monster that it has now become (and no, I don’t think even the most brilliant men alive today can “fix” it in its current terminal state.)

  63. Ton

    Why would you want women in the trades? You hate blue collar men or something? Did they do something horribly unspeakable to you?

  64. an observer

    The argument against training women in the trades is simple. Each girl that takes a trade spot steals a mans lifetime of oppo

    Women rarely persist with difficult, physically demanding jobs. Women get special access to training, placement on courses, and ‘help’ in passing. After a few years work, they move on to some admin position, or leave altogether. All that training that could have been used by a man, that cost valuable time and money, is lost.

    The chicks that qualify as a tradie arent interested in mentoring others, or passing on their skills. All they want is to move on to something that befits their imagined special status.

  65. an observer

    here are no “standards” to be “adapted” to take account of women’s inferior strength

    Yes, there are standards. Women get help to pass, i see it happen all the time.

    Once qualified, they become at best a nuisance, because they often lack the physical strength and stamina do the job. At worst, they are a risk and a threat to everyone around them.

    Sure, they might look cute in a high vis jacket. But thats hardly a job relevant criteria.

  66. Carnivore

    A woman plumber? You youngin’s ain’t old enough to remember Josephine the Plumber:

    I recall back in the 90′s discussing a home plumbing project with some of the guys at work and the resident office feminist overheard mention of nipples and male and female threads (my home was all steel piping at the time). She was incredulous and insisted we were making that up to irritate her.

    With more women plumbers, would the Ridgid Tool Company have to change its name? Maybe not, but there would be no more Ridgid Tool Company calendar. Talk about tradition in the trades. https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/ridgid-calendar I bet you never knew a pipe threader could look so sexy in October: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcixbeU1qv1rhhnauo1_500.jpg
    Of course, the earlier ones with illustrations (instead of photos) could be a bit more suggestive. For example March, 1953: http://www.jmcvey.net/hdwe/art/george_petty_ridgid_june_1953_576w881h.jpg
    If women plumbers dressed like that in 1953, what would the garb be today?

  67. Artisanal Toad

    @Jeremy
    Don’t buy a boat until you’ve rented an RV and spent a two-week vacation traveling through southwest Florida visiting all the boatyards from Tampa to Ft. Myers. Virtually every boatyard (especially in the Port Charlotte to Venice area) has anywhere from a few to dozens of abandoned boats. These boats get sold at auction and nobody pays more than salvage value because nobody is buying boats.

    Second, December through February is a great time to buy a boat. March is too late until October.

    The reason this is happening is that there are so many people who retire to FL and the husband has his pride and joy. Then he gets cancer or falls and breaks his hip… and next thing you know that $300 to $400 monthly bill hasn’t been paid for 6 months and *bang* it gets forclosed on and sold at auction. Go visit, network and talk to people. There are deals to be had that you can’t believe. If it were possible to get an apartment down there and spend several months looking around and talking to people, the amount you’d save when you bought the boat would easily cover your costs.

  68. JDG

    The argument against training women in the trades is simple. Each girl that takes a trade spot steals a mans lifetime of oppo
    Women rarely persist with difficult, physically demanding jobs. Women get special access to training, placement on courses, and ‘help’ in passing. After a few years work, they move on to some admin position, or leave altogether. All that training that could have been used by a man, that cost valuable time and money, is lost.
    The chicks that qualify as a tradie arent interested in mentoring others, or passing on their skills. All they want is to move on to something that befits their imagined special status.

    Nailed it. We also see this happening in the Health Care industry, especially with med students/physicians. Lots of openings that should have gone to men are given to women who spend far fewer years in the field. In the long run this helps to drive up the cost of medical care because valuable resources are wasted.

  69. Martel

    @ an observer/JDG: The same thing happens in the business world all the time. She starts out on the young power professional track, gets all sorts of training, and leaves at 27 to start a family. Had a man gotten that experience instead, even if the company he started with lost his skills because he switched jobs, at least it would stay in the industry.

    And it would benefit him for an entire career.

    This is one of the many ways that feminism also messes with our economy. It’s messed with everything from housing prices to the student loan bubble to the expanded welfare state to excessive consumer debt. Before feminism, it was possible for a low-lever blue collar worker to support an entire family on one salary. Today, not even close.

    Working began an as option for bored upper-middle class housewives, and now it’s an obligation for almost everyone, male and female, except for the very rich.

    Great job, ladies.

  70. lovelyleblanc7

    @Feeriker: I’ll admit that our government is corrupt in someways, but things such as the Judicial system was invented by men. Men like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, etc. all played an important role in the development of the early American government. The foundations of the American government was established by men….then liberals came in and…well, the rest is history.

  71. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, after reading your link, is it plausible to say that writng scientific papers would lie in the province of “beta” behavior?

  72. an observer

    We also see this happening in the Health Care industry, especially with med students/physicians. 

    Totally. The cost of training a doctor/surgeon is phenomenal. So of course, govt subsidises lots of empowered young women into the fields. After a scant few years, she switches to part time, but still earns a bucket load because of articially created shortages. Hear her roar!

    Meanwhile, the male docs are working stupud hours, or have gone rural/remote, and have no personal life whatsoever.

    Nevet mind. At least cupcake is living the dream, doing two days a week at the local surgery, with a legion of female patients.

  73. Maureen

    yes, there are standards. Women get help to pass, i see it happen all the time.

    Once qualified, they become at best a nuisance, because they often lack the physical strength and stamina do the job. At worst, they are a risk and a threat to everyone around them.

    Yes, i’m sure you’re right – in companies with HR departments and such. I look at women who accept such altered standards the same way I look at people who cheat on tests or take performance-enhancing drugs – they haven’t actually “won” so what’s the point?

    I was thinking more of corner garages and 2 or 3 man welding shops. I can promise the men i know would very politely (being from the Midwest) decline any woman looking for a welding job, unless possibly they were China or Nicole Bass.

    Women excel at making babies and keeping house. I will never understand the need to prove themselves otherwise.

  74. sally1137

    “We take the lady, for example, who wanted to be the OBGYN ( a good career) and changed her degree two times. What did she change it to? English Literature and Gender & Women’s Studies? LOL”

    So does anyone know the difference between studying to be an OBGYN and studying Gender & Women’s Studies?

    They both involve peering up the same orifice, but OBGYN involves someone else’s.

    …and studying to be an OBGYN is haaard.

  75. ballista74

    So does anyone know the difference between studying to be an OBGYN and studying Gender & Women’s Studies?

    They both involve peering up the same orifice, but OBGYN involves someone else’s.

    I would say the latter involves a personal tactile experience in peering up the OTHER orifice, but I suppose the other one might work just as well.

  76. Legion

    “Is it because their families are not supporting their choices to enter fields like “masonry” and plumbing?”

    Let the harpies be plumbers. I’m sure they have the language requirements down pat already.

  77. Elspeth

    Really, Elspeth, you’re overdue for some consciousness raising. The SWPL feminists at feministing can surely do the job. Or they can try…

    I’ve seen to much real life to be swayed by SWPL attempts at consciousness raising. There’s a reason why our girls live at home at commute to college; avoidance of student loan debt being one them.

    Been spending a lot more time in real life lately and it’s only reinforcing my belief that these people could care less about family or cultural stability.

  78. alcestiseshtemoa

    Since men and women aren’t the same, it must be a continuous pain to ignore, reject and fight this reality. It’s like a never-ending battle, with an opponent who never dies nor gives up, and hence the funds for modern liberal reparations never stops and continues to flow in.

  79. The Feminist Whisperer

    Bah – hit send too soon – here’s the money quote from the article about women in medicine:

    “These numbers do indeed have serious consequences. An estimated quarter of those women doctors choose to work part-time for a few years at least while their children are small. And a startling 60 per cent leave the profession altogether.”

    So – not only do you have to have extra staffing to account for part-timers (Who still need full scale training), but over HALF of the time spent training these physicians is wasted b/c the doctors leave the field.

    What a terrible waste of resources and money

  80. earl

    It seems odd that people pretend that chicks like education in schools.

    They all go there for one reason…dudes are there. The college bubble is about to burst if guys aren’t going there anymore.

  81. tacomaster2

    Interesting you brought this up SSM. I caught a local blurb on the local news, which is a rarity because I never watch it, and they were commenting on the plight of women in carpentry and plumbing. Some department of our government which has a stash of “free money” to hand out was offering 2 million dollars in scholarships at the local community colleges for women wanting to go into these fields. Then they cut to two women carpenters who looked like Joe Pesci…

    The woman you were quoting from mentioned the so-called wage gap for women versus men. I know this has been talked about ad nauseum but this fact less myth just won’t die. When I first got into nursing I had a seasoned nurse bitterly tell me I’d make more than the females to keep me around (reverse sexism?). Every nurse starts at the same base pay. I went and conducted my own research and found that in nursing men in fact do make more than women. It’s all because of our penises. Seriously though, it’s because more men than women pick up a fourth day each week (time and a half), are more apt to come in when asked even if it’s their day off (additional hour of pay for travel and time and a half), and thirdly, they lump all fields of nursing (ER, ICU, operating room, nurse administration, nurse anesthesia, etc) as a generalized nurse position when there is a substantial difference in pay in those different areas. Guys tend to go into nurse anesthesia, CRNA, more than women and it easily makes low six figures as well as nurse administration. These are all things that skew the average and make men earn more than women. Also, men will negotiate their pay after they’ve reached a certain point in their career more so than women.

  82. tacomaster2

    Artisanal Toad,
    After I read your posting above I realized I’ve never had an opportunity to do any type of plumbing repairs. Where did you learn these skills? I didn’t have a dad around so never got that exposure. Do community colleges offer an intro class or something? Curious.

  83. Farm Boy

    It seems odd that people pretend that chicks like education in schools.

    Don’t they like their women’s studies and psychology degrees?

    It makes them empowered and all.

  84. Farm Boy

    They all go there for one reason…dudes are there.

    That was fine in the Mrs. degree era. In the hook-up era….

  85. Take The Red Pill

    Farm Boy, December 12, 2013 at 1:19 pm:
    ” ‘When we get to the feminist utopia in Abilene, all the plumbers will be women.’

    That would make sense, as females have more complex and problematic internal plumbing.”

    That brings to mind a favorite quote of mine (which originated in “STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK”) — Starfleet Chief Engineer Scott: “The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.”

  86. Just Saying

    “Women are also much less likely to be listed in the prestigious first and last author positions.”

    The first position goes to the person who actually did the majority of the work, wrote the paper, and performed the research, and the last is usually the Senior Researcher who received the funding, sponsored the research, and oversaw the process – others are contributors and are mentioned mostly to be nice. As it happens I know a bit about this process – and I have gotten many papers to “Peer Review”, I don’t look at the author, many do not provide that information (in the “HARD” sciences) specifically to avoid prejudices.

    I have gotten back written explanations after ripping a paper to pieces and not recommending it for publication (it looked like it was written by someone with zero knowledge of pre-existing work in the area, and the conclusions were non-sense), saying that due to the fact that women authors were so under-represented in the “HARD” sciences they would publish the paper against the recommendation of ALL of the peer reviewers. (That is unheard of if the author is male – and I was stunned at the implications, which is that scientific merit no longer matters.) I no longer act as a peer reviewer since they ignored ALL of the recommendations and undermined the entire purpose of peer reviews to up their number of women publishing garbage.

    The older women, who were held to scientific standards, are the ones that screamed the loudest about this type of activity, since every man now lumps ALL of the research performed by women into the “worthless” category. It belittles the work of the very few qualified women researchers, so they are very annoyed at it. Most men have a very short list of women who’s work can be trusted.

    The Feminists can scream – but in the absence of scientific standards, integrity, and rigor, that is the best course of action.

  87. Anonymous Reader

    Farm Boy
    It seems odd that people pretend that chicks like STEM fields.

    Some women do actually enjoy the work in science, technology, engineering and/or medicine. I’ve known several that were competent. They are a distinct minority of women – they think differently from other women to some degree.

    There’s a tremendous tendency in the West nowadays to confuse “some” and “all”. Just because “some” women are suited to STEM it does not follow that “all” are. And beyond that, just because some women are mentally suited to those careers it does not follow that they necessarily want to do them.

    But all of this is both too complicated, and too simple, for the feminist True Believer.

  88. The Real Peterman

    The average women is 80% as big as the average man, and has 80% of the muscle, pound for pound, as the average man. So the average women is 66% as strong as the average man. Who should we be encouraging to take up jobs that require lots of muscle?

  89. Maeve

    @AR – your point about this confusion between “some” and “all” – it think it’s true, but also what feminists (and all the other “…ists”) say is something like the following: “women make up x% of the population – therefore women should make up x% of [fill in the blank]“. They take a statistic (which in and of itself is meaningless), and then proclaim that all “institutions” (very loosely used here) need to reflect that statistic. It’s ludicrous. Taken to it’s extreme, it would result in MANDATING men or women pursue/decline all sorts of fields of study, jobs, interests, etc., regardless of what folks WANT to do. Because what we want to do with our lives in less important than what we should be doing, according to “them”. For them, it’s all about some absurd vision of sameness throughout all aspects of our existence.

  90. Guest

    “The average women is 80% as big as the average man, and has 80% of the muscle, pound for pound, as the average man. So the average women is 66% as strong as the average man. Who should we be encouraging to take up jobs that require lots of muscle?”

    Makes you wonder about female-against-male DV.

  91. Guest

    What I meant was, why do the men here complain about DV perpetrated against them? Aren’t you 33% bigger and stronger?

  92. Je Suis Prest

    @ tacomaster2

    I know your question wasn’t directed to me, but I have had the “opportunity” to work on some home plumbing repairs. For what it’s worth, you can figure almost anything out by doing some basic reading to figure out how it’s supposed to work, troubleshooting to figure out what’s actually wrong and where it is (hint: try to determine the most awkward, inaccessible spot as it’s probably there), and then watching youtube to figure out how to fix it. Thanks to these “opportunities,” I have reached several conclusions:

    1) It’s worth researching first how much more damage you can do by screwing things up. If the cost for a plumber to come in either way is about the same, it’s almost always worth at least trying to fix the problem yourself (unless it violates rule 2 or 3). On the other hand, if it’s possible to make things much worse if you mess up, you need to honestly evaluate whether or not it’s worth trying;

    2) The tools required to do some jobs are expensive and you may not use them often enough to justify purchasing them. If none of your friends/neighbours have them either, calling the plumber may be the most economical option;

    3) (This is personal to me) I don’t touch anything involving blackwater. Sometimes, when you work on that side of the plumbing and things get blocked, this leads to gasses and whatnot building up. This leads to volumes of “material” exiting the pipes rapidly while you are nearby having just opened things up. You then have no choice but to deal with things while covered in cold, wet, stinky “material.” This sucks. There is almost no amount I wouldn’t pay to not have to deal with that ever, ever again; and

    4) You can prevent a lot of the worst issues by understanding how your system works and undertaking preventative maintenance. This is especially true for any households where there is anyone with long hair. Long hair is like drain kryptnonite.

    Cheers!

  93. hard earned STEM PhD

    I have gotten back written explanations after ripping a paper to pieces and not recommending it for publication (it looked like it was written by someone with zero knowledge of pre-existing work in the area, and the conclusions were non-sense), saying that due to the fact that women authors were so under-represented in the “HARD” sciences they would publish the paper against the recommendation of ALL of the peer reviewer

    Scan the letter and post it in the internet.

    Before feminism, it was possible for a low-lever blue collar worker to support an entire family on one salary. Today, not even close.

    And college is unaffordable now. What will I tell my sons?

  94. Artisanal Toad

    @TM
    My Dad started a business when I was in the seventh grade. When I say I got in on the ground floor, I mean that I helped dig the footings. He had 5 boys and we were expected to work once we hit about 12s years old. We built a new building (on average) every two years. So… I got to learn it all. We started out as “step and fetch it” boys and graduated to basic wiring and plumbing. As we got older we learned carpentry and masonry. The local community was small and mostly tradesmen, all of whom were friends with my Dad because he frequented the local watering hole. We were assigned to work (unpaid apprenticeships) with the plumbers, electricians, carpenters and masons who built our buildings.

    If you want to learn how to do plumbing, go to Home Depot and buy a how-to book. This us NOT rocket-science. In the community I grew up in, the more intelligent guys went into HVAC or electrical. The run of the mill guys went into carpentry or masonry. The guys who couldn’t make it elsewhere became plumbers and the local insult was “you’re dumber than a plumber.” There are two rules to plumbing: water flows downhill and payday’s Friday. Nowdays we have pumps, so we can make water flow uphill, but only as long as there’s electricity to run the pumps.

    Seriously: Nobody can teach you something (except maybe how to read), it is you that must learn. Susannah Wesley taught all of her children how to read in ONE DAY. She waited until she thought they were ready, and then taught them how to read. A good teacher can help you learn faster, but ultimately it’s not that you’re being taught, it’s you that must learn. In order to do this, you must learn how to learn. This is the singular truth behind the Robinson Homeschool Curriculum. For whatever you want to learn, get the book and read it. Then hit YouTube and see what you can find there. If it’s abstract, go to the Kahn Accademy. Education is almost free nowdays, one has only to avail themselves of it.

    The modern school system has brainwashed people into thinking that they need to go find an “expert” to teach them something. Hogwash. Go get the book and learn.

    @Maeve
    Taken to it’s extreme, it would result in MANDATING men or women pursue/decline all sorts of fields of study, jobs, interests, etc., regardless of what folks WANT to do. Because what we want to do with our lives in less important than what we should be doing, according to “them”. For them, it’s all about some absurd vision of sameness throughout all aspects of our existence.

    You’ve got it half right. It’s a mandate only if the women want to do something, and then it’s mandated that they be allowed to. If they don’t want to do it, they don’t have to. Does not work in reverse, though, well… because of the patriarchy. You know, the PATRIARCHY! Men are mandated to accept the desires of women regardless of what they want.

  95. Opus

    Today’s plumber story (yes really) I got in my new plumber to change a washer. That cost me fifty pounds sterling – but as I am metered I trust it will prove cost-effective. I would not have felt very at ease having a woman in and about my place. Humiliated really.

    Notice that Ms Bowen only wants to get into the better paid trades, of which I (now) can only presume plumbing is one. Street cleaning is not what she is talking about. For her it is all and only about money.

    As for Truck driving, I shake my head. On of my friends was one, and as he said keeping your truck (in which you sleep) going in Russian sub-zero temperatures in the depths of winter and running the risks involved in being attacked by ‘peace-loving’ Kurds in Turkey on your way to war-torn Iraq, is hardly a life for a woman and perhaps not for a man either – not if you value life. I need hardly even contemplate the likely result if you are a woman – and of course it does not pay anything like the considerably easier job of flying a jet aircraft.

  96. Artisanal Toad

    @JSP
    This leads to volumes of “material” exiting the pipes rapidly while you are nearby having just opened things up. You then have no choice but to deal with things while covered in cold, wet, stinky “material.” This sucks.

    This is one of the reasons that emergency plumbers who are willing to be on-call 24/7 make so much money. I met one in my gym in Florida who said he rarely gets calls from homes that have a man in the house and a significant portion of the problems are blocked/clogged pipes and nasty stuff in the house. Part of the deal is she has to agree that he’s allowed to use the shower when he’s done to get cleaned up if things go bad. He carries all kinds of cleaning supplies and extra clothes in his truck. When he’s finished he cleans up after himself meticulously, with the idea that the area is going to be cleaner when he leaves than it was before the problem started. He makes an income in the low six figures and can afford to take charity cases… or if the woman is pretty enough is willing to be paid in kind rather than in cash.

  97. dannyfrom504

    the great thing about working ther refinery and oil rigs in La is there are very few women. the women that are there are behind desks and rarely interact with the men.

    it’s basically a giant locker room and the women are handing out towels.

  98. Pingback: Men Make the World, Women Live in It

  99. Je Suis Prest

    @ AT

    I can fully understand why he would make that kind of money; dealing with volumes of nasty stuff in pipes is now firmly on my list of things you couldn’t pay me enough to deal with. I’d figured going in that it couldn’t be all that much worse than changing a diaper, and since I’m fine with that… but it was so, so, so much worse. Especially since I wasn’t smart enough to wear something covering my face and hair… Blech. (Lesson learned: if you do deal with blackwater, cover up as much as possible and keep garbage bags nearby to throw clothes into. But mostly, just call the nice plumber and let him do that)

    One of my buddies who did well in school chose to go into plumbing and caught all kids of flack from people who thought he should be going into university. His reasoning was that you can always delay implementing an IT project or designing a new machine, but even when the economy tanks, people are still going to want their toilets to work and most aren’t going to want to do what it takes to make that happen themselves…

    As an aside, I’m curious about the reasons behind why he rarely gets calls from homes that have a man. Is it that they’re doing more preventative maintenance, not flushing as much junk down the drains or more willing to tackle problems themselves? It would be interesting to look at that problem in greater detail…

  100. Maeve

    @AT – You know, women in general and feminists in particular are awfully “good” at determining “what’s good for you” (all sarcasm intended). I have no problem whatsoever seeing them dictate what girls/women have to do. There are any number of them already who have put forth the notion that (certain) college-educate women should not be allowed to be SAHM. They’re not happy unless they’re controlling everything.

  101. bike bubba

    Tacomaster, I can second the Home Depot “how to” books for learning how to do plumbing and even basic electrical work. Since my dad was in sales, there were many things that we didn’t get to do together since he was out of the house (and my parents’ divorce when I was 14 didn’t help either), but I did develop a basic familiarity with tools that was really helpful as I self-taught myself some of the basics of carrpentry, plumbing, and electrical work.

    One addition to what Toad said; if you own an older home, get both a new book on home repairs and an old one. The reason is simple; technologies, change, and you will on occasion have opportunity to upgrade an electrical system that uses conduit or a plumbing system that uses black iron, for example, It’s nice to at least know what you’re getting into.

  102. bike bubba

    Prest, there are probably two reasons why homes with a man in the house call tradesmen less often. OK, three if you include those Liquid Plumr commercials somebody linked, I guess.

    First, many men DO indeed take better care of things and are skilled at dealing with the minor stuff. And second, those who do NOT take better care of things and are NOT capable of dealing with the minor stuff often think that they know how it’s done. Tradesmen love the latter.

    To illustrate the difference, I had a friend–carpenter/furniture-maker who also had a gift for electrical and plumbing–and I would give him a call when my home projects uncovered something previous owners had done in a totally bizaare way. Since the house was 35 years old and had had several owners, this was often, and we joked that my home would not only keep him in gainful employment, but also supply any lack of humor that he suffered in his life elsewhere. Some of the repairs were truly bizaare.

  103. Artisanal Toad

    @JSP
    Men tend to be rational and logical. If the emergency plumber visit is going to cost $350 to come out and an extra $100 per hour for every hour after the first two, he’s far more inclined to go to a Home Depot, Lowes or Super Walmart and buy whatever tools are needed to do the job. If’ it’s a backed up toilet and there’s another working bathroom in the house, get the tools tomorrow and do the job then. It costs time but the cost in money for the tools will generally be way less than half of what paying the professional will be and after that you have the tools and some experience.

    In homes with small children the most common plumbing problem is them flushing something down the toilet that clogs it up. I’ve personally experienced a bar of soap, a mango, a beanie-baby type doll and a bunch of leggos that all defied the efforts of a snake to fix the problem. Therefore, the toilet had to be pulled. This is the alternative meaning of “hugging the commode.” Once the stool is pulled, the problem can be solved in short order. Always test before putting the stool back down with a 5 gallon bucket of water. There might be a blockage further down… Now install a new toilet seal, reseat the stool, bolt it back down and reconnect the water line. Done. In a normal bathroom it takes about one hour, start to finish, if you know what you’re doing. If you don’t, plan on three hours and two more trips to the hardware store.

    Anyway, this is basic guy-logic 101. If the cost of buying the tools plus the cost of your time to do the job is less than half the cost of doing the job yourself, men tend to do the job themselves. If they’re smart they make it look really difficult. If they’re smarter, when they get done they clean up well behind themselves and make sure it works. Then, they can tell the wife how much money they just saved the family. If done right, (especially the part about cleaning up the mess) that’s a guaranteed enthusiastic lay that night from a very appreciative wife or girlfriend.

    Final note: Pawn shops are filled with discount tools, so is Craigslist and Ebay. Don’t pay retail if you don’t have to. In fact, I just checked Craigslist and it’s heartbreaking to see the number of contractor grade tools (Bosch) that are up for sale. Buy the books, learn some things and know what tools you need. Buy the basics so you have them. You can get the tools at a better than 50% discount by buying them used.

  104. Artisanal Toad

    @Bubba

    Second the comment about an older home repair book. Most plumbers don’t know anything about packing and sealing cast iron pipe anymore. Another tip is to have access panels cut behind showers/tubs for ease in changing out fixtures. Very easy to do with a 3/8″ piece of plywood, some moulding and a little stain and varnish. Do the job once and it’s done. At any subsequent point in the future it’s a couple of screws. Valves can also be inline to make changing washers easy and fast (Opus).

    Homer buckets (with lids) are invaluable if you have to bail out an overflowed toilet filled with yesterday’s lunch.

    OH- and men, one last thing: Never, EVER use ANYTHING from the kitchen as a tool for such a plumbing project. Yes, we know that it’s going to be washed and will be perfectly sanitary… just trust me on this.

  105. feeriker

    Working began an as option for bored upper-middle class housewives, and now it’s an obligation for almost everyone, male and female, except for the very rich.

    This is no small part the result not only of FED-engineered inflation (the U.S. dollar has lost 95 percent of its value over the 100 years of the FED’s existence), but also of a tax code that punishes families with stay-at-home wives/mothers – another “gift” from feminism and the toady politicians who are its masters.

  106. Farm Boy

    Makes you wonder about female-against-male DV.

    Perhaps it makes you wonder, but not me. Boys from day one are taught not to hit girls.

  107. bike bubba

    Feeriker, actually the dollar has lost about 96% of its value since 1913. :^)

    Seriously, well said; I’m SO glad that tax revenues and borrowing are used to subsidize baby mommas through daycare subsidies, the marriage penalties in the tax code, and the like. What could possibly go wrong by making it financially more feasible to be a single parent? Beyond the fact that something like 2/3 of penitentiary inmates are from broken homes and a massive national debt that imperils our nation’s existence, of course.

    Naturally, the cure for this is MORE WOMEN PLUMBERS. Sigh.

  108. tacomaster2

    @ JSP, Bike Bubba, Artisinal Toad

    Thanks guys for all the useful information. I’ll go to Home Depot and look for those books. I don’t mind getting dirty (I was in the Army) and I don’t mind learning a new skill either. I think learning those type of skills will pay off and save some money in the long run.

  109. donalgraeme

    Re: DV and men

    Feminist snark aside, the fact that man are bigger, tougher and stronger does make DV a difficult issue when you have a male victim. Men are rarely hurt as much as female DV victims, and this plus other factors makes it harder to prosecute female on male DV. Despite the fact that about half of all DV is against men, few women are successfully prosecuted for it. Of course, for feminists, this is a feature, not a bug.

    Re: Home repairs and improvement

    Plumbing is less dangerous than electrical work around the home, but far more unpleasant. For the biggest jobs I will call a plumber even though I have some measure of skill in the field. This is as much to save time as anything. However, for mild to medium plumbing jobs, most can be done by yourself without the need for any really expensive tools. As for the knowledge, your neighborhood hardware store is your best bet. Look around for one of the older guys who works there, odds are that he is a retired plumber or electrician who got tired of taking calls late at night but still likes playing the game somewhat. Most of them love to talk and help people out.

  110. donalgraeme

    @ Taco

    Home Depot has the books, the selection and the prices, but not necessarily the associate/employee knowledge you may seek. They have supposedly worked on their customer service recently, but I still find that their employee knowledge is weaker than most Co-Ops or smaller chains.

  111. bike bubba

    Tacomaster, go to eBay for the older ones. I think I’ve got a Time/Life book from the 1980s that has a lot of the older technologies. It’s great for iron pipe and such, not so hot for vinyl siding, if you catch my drift.

  112. Je Suis Prest

    @ Taco

    I found my favourite books at the Salvation Army; if you have one nearby, it might be worth a look.

  113. Ton

    Men, generally speaking understand cause and effect which in this case means it’s a lot easier to do preventative maintenance then repairs

  114. FuzzieWuzzie

    I do have to wonder how all these things get done in Abeline. Do they recruit beta orbiters? If so, this must be an ongoing process.

  115. Farm Boy

    They’re not happy unless they’re controlling everything

    They are not happy, period. Which makes one wonder of the appeal of feminism…

  116. nightskyradio

    FB – They are not happy, period. Which makes one wonder of the appeal of feminism…

    Happy People are not Serious People. Serious People are edgy and intellectual and Smarter Than You, thinking their Deep Thoughts.

  117. FuzzieWuzzie

    “They are not happy. Period.”
    Shall I remind everyone of the scenario Maeve and I cooked up. Attack a feminist convention using hand cannons propelled by compressed air.
    Projectile of choice: teddy bears!

  118. Farm Boy

    Attack a feminist convention using hand cannons propelled by compressed air.

    Projectile of choice: teddy bears!

    You say that because you get a license fee for each one.

  119. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, I don’t get a license fee but, wouldn’t be funny to see their hearts melt? Then, there’s the collective “Awwwwww”.

  120. sunshinemary Post author

    Feeriker:

    This is no small part the result not only of FED-engineered inflation (the U.S. dollar has lost 95 percent of its value over the 100 years of the FED’s existence), but also of a tax code that punishes families with stay-at-home wives/mothers – another “gift” from feminism and the toady politicians who are its masters.

    Exactly. The tax code…and also the fact that husbands’ taxes are redistributed to welfare sluts. So each working man isn’t supporting just his own family, but some other alpha cad/thug’s bitches and their babies. That gets expensive, and since he has NO CHOICE about supporting the alpha cad/thug’s bitches and babies, but he DOES have a choice about farming his own wife out for pay…well. You do the math.

    Great Society indeed.

    Thanks, Feminists! There are no words to describe how despicable I find feminists and the incredibly destructive social policies which they have demanded.

  121. Artisanal Toad

    @SSM
    If you and HHG feel that way, just go full-bore homesteading. Two milking cows, chickens, big garden, can about 600-800 quarts a year of organic produce. Get into aquaponics. Two milk cows and you’ll always have one freshened for 6 months and you get a calf every 6 months. After a year and a half that means you have an 800 pound steer or heifer to either sell or slaughter. If you go AI with just bull embryos, that’s 800 pounds of beef a year. Get a sanitary bucket milker and that’s about 2 gallons of milk a day (if you go Jersey, lots of cream) and you can make your own butter and cheese. A henhouse of layers means at least a dozen eggs a day and a couple hundred pullets each year to be canned is also nice. In fall, buy and can a couple of bushels of apples for applesauce and pie filling. I could go on, but you get the point. The point is you’ll produce more milk, butter and eggs than you can consume. You’ll have the capacity to help those truly in need if necessary.

    You can literally knock 80% off your food budget and have organic food that you know everything about. You cannot be taxed on this and your children will learn some very valuable domestic and farming skills. If you go the aquaponics route (and you should), in the winter the water acts as a heat-sink and the roosting chickens (in a sectioned off part of the greenhouse) act as heaters. The result is continuous production of fish and veggies all through winter. Again, these are extremely valuable skills to learn and will provide massive amounts of stuff to write about. If you don’t want to go with edible fish, you can raise Koi that you can sell. Or, you can work out a deal with a local restaurant and sell them a certain amount of produce each month. In most states, if they come to you and buy it on the farm there’s no sales tax.

    Off the farm income can then be ploughed into getting out of debt, establishing savings and finally tapered off in order to lower the tax burden. Zoned agricultural tends to be the lowest property tax rates. Super insulate the home to cut heating and cooling bills. Do what you can to get a net-zero energy home. Get a place with a decent size woodlot and plant about 10 acres of wild simulated ginseng. In 10-15 years it will be worth $5-$8 million dollars. Call it a retirement fund.

  122. FuzzieWuzzie

    SSM, so I take that air powered cannons shooting teddy bears is not a strong enough response? As he said, tongue in cheek.
    How did we get to the point where baby mommas have hijacked the benefits that were supposed to go to legitimate widows and orphans?

  123. Farm Boy

    Well SSM, I have never seen a women explain the situation so forcefully and clearly. When the subject of paying for baby mamas comes up, women normally uncover their cache of weasel words.

  124. Farm Boy

    wouldn’t be funny to see their hearts melt? Then, there’s the collective “Awwwwww”.

    I am not sure it could be done. The Grinch’s heart melted, but hard core feminists are in a league if their own.

    It must be the feelings of power that float their boat, because they sure don’t have happiness.

  125. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, Like anyone else, they want to love and be loved. I’m still scratching my head about how to tap into this. Maybe Maeve is right. They had their teddy bears taken away too early.

  126. Nestor

    @SSM: you wrote “Thanks, Feminists! There are no words to describe how despicable I find feminists and the incredibly destructive social policies which they have demanded.”

    Weren’t you one of them, or did I misread?

    [ssm: At one point, yes. I was a feminist in college. Marriage mostly cured me of overt/political feminism, and by my mid-twenties I would no longer have referred to myself as a feminist. However, women are also prone to covert feminism, aka trying to control men, and I almost certainly fell into that at times until I understood that I had to guard against it.]

  127. Farm Boy

    They had their teddy bears taken away too early.

    Did their Feminist Moms do this? So, is Feminism a self-perpetuating disaster?

  128. Chris

    AT: agree about the mechanics, don’t get me wrong.
    but. two. words.
    property.taxes.

    SSM can probably go semi homesteading, but you have to find that 5 — 10 K tax every year.

  129. FuzzieWuzzie

    “Is feminism a self perpetuating disaster?”
    No, because children will think for themselves. Aren’t women currently less likely to declare themselves feminist? It still remains to pull the weeds out of the culture that feminism planted but, they have to be seen as weeds.
    As for teddy bears, I don’t know. Let’s spread the word. Keep your bears!

  130. Artisanal Toad

    @Chris
    Depends on where one lives. Some places have obscene property taxes, others don’t. I don’t know where 8-10 acres that’s zoned agricultural and operating as a small farm would get hit with 5-10 K in property taxes each year, but you may know something I don’t.

    I forgot to respond to you earlier when you mentioned trusts. The only way to effectively organize a trust that will withstand a US court attack is to do it in an offshore jurisdiction such as the Cook Islands that have very strong laws regarding trusts. Any trust set up in the US is susceptible to being invaded by a family court judge and you have zero recourse and no defense.

    Read the Anderson Ark case. Even though the money was obtained by fraud, no matter what the US did, they couldn’t get the money without going to the Cook Islands and proceeding through their court system. They told him to write to the trustees and tell them to turn over the money, so he did, but the trust indenture had a duress clause. They finally had to let him out of jail because he’d done everything they told him to do to purge himself of contempt. Yet, they couldn’t get the money because it was protected by a strong structure in the correct jurisdiction.

    Anyone with significant (legally acquired) wealth would be well advised to utilize a properly set up offshore asset protection trust before getting married. That way there would be no way she could ever claim fraudulent conveyance or have any interest in that money. Transfer the money out the day after getting married and she can claim fraudulent conveyance because the moment you put a ring on it she owns half of it. Set it up in the US and you’re screwed because “in the interests of the children” it would be invaded and seized. Seen it happen repeatedly. Prenup? Forget it. They routinely get disregarded and set aside. There’s always something.

  131. Wild Man

    You should have heard the little witch in my college marketing/advertising class a few years back when I suggested that the reason the US military did not market to women for recruitment was because soldiering is not the girliest job in the world.

    “People like you are the reason I will never join the military,” she hissed at me after class. Which was a rather silly thing to say, since it confirmed my opinion that most women can’t handle the military because soldiers aren’t known for their sensitivity and political correctness.

    I was so taken aback by this that I couldn’t muster my artful reply, “No dearie, it’s people like me that are the reason you don’t HAVE to join the military.” But I digress.

    I would wager that the skilled trades, law enforcement, the military and any other occupations that involve getting physically dirty, grimy or dangerous could direct all of their recruitment efforts at the fairer sex for a decade and not see even a bump in the numbers. Have you ever driven through a road construction site and noticed that the female staff are ALWAYS the ones holding the sign that says “STOP” on one side and “SLOW” on the other, while the men are operating the jackhammers or climbing into the bucket on the hydraulic boom to go up and risk electrocution by the disabled power lines? It never fails!

  132. Chris

    AT, the Cook Islands was a NZ colony and has shared citizenship and defence: the trust law is very similar. The standard thing to do in NZ is to have all familial assets in a trust, particularly as running a successful farm often requires two or three generations within a family working together.
    The family law is different: 50:50 split in assets, child care support according to a formula of a fixed percent of income up to a maximum, and very limited alimony.
    And it is very hard to break trusts: would require parliament to change the law (not going to happen. The politicians all have family trusts).

  133. DeNihilist

    SM, if true your last paragraph, then these low IQ women will founder. Sorry, but the trades today are so advanced with technology, smart phone controlled heating, lights, etc. Boilers that “think” to be as efficient as possible…. that we actually need the higher IQ people. The old saw of sending the dumb boys into the trades so that they can make a living, is quickly disappearing.

  134. Ton

    I’ll be trying my hands at aquaponics in the next year or two. I’m a piss poor plumber so I imagine a lot of cursing will go on.

    Teddy bears will not fix feminist, flechette and canister will. Women don’t respond to love, they respond to fear. Then explain that away as love

    The military recruits heavily among women and minorities and is now the primary target as they stay in longer and helps address the turnover rate. It’s all manner of false thinking but it is what it is

    Little more then 5 acres, property tax is under 3k a year.

  135. Farm Boy

    I think most women involved in STEM are too busy to post here.

    I would think not. Being a woman in STEM means not having to work as hard, as everything is handed to you. So, they should have time go post.

    That, and being all verbal and all.

  136. Farm Boy

    how unhappy it makes both men and women.

    In terms of a direct appeal to people, this would seem to be feminism’s weak point. Pound it in, SSM.

  137. Bee

    It’s refreshing to hear non-politically correct truths in a folk song. “Canadian Railroad Trilogy” highlights how visionary white men risked life and profits to open and link Canada’s ore, lumber, and grains to the distant seaports. The songwriter tells how we all benefit from the “…mines, mills, and the factories” – no “environmental guilt” here.

    “Navvies” is the slang for the surveyors and workers who built the railroads. Some were motivated by adventure, but the vast majorities were motivated to save enough money so they could afford to “earn” a bride. “Monogamy is as important as the wheel and fire in establishing our civilization.” Dr. F. Roger Devlin

    Written and sung by Gordon Lightfoot:

  138. Farm Boy

    “Monogamy is as important as the wheel and fire in establishing our civilization.”

    Mud huts are fine with women as long as they get the tingles. What are we waiting for?

  139. mdavid444444

    SSSM, Exactly. The tax code…and also the fact that husbands’ taxes are redistributed to welfare sluts. So each working man isn’t supporting just his own family, but some other alpha cad/thug’s bitches and their babies. That gets expensive, and since he has NO CHOICE about supporting the alpha cad/thug’s bitches and babies, but he DOES have a choice about farming his own wife out for pay…well. You do the math.

    This is such an excellent point I wish to make a few comments.

    1. My wife, a SAHM, does a tremendous amount of economic labor – cooking from scratch, cleaning, buying used goods, taking care of kids, cloth diapers, shopping for deals, gardening, sewing, cleaning fish/game, cutting hair, and much more. I’m guessing $20k of labor each year, tax free, no commute – no sales tax, no income tax.
    2. Even though I work full-time, I also fix cars, hunt, fish repair the home, split wood, fix computers, repair appliances, do taxes, handle law issues, etc. That’s all tax free as well.
    3. If you have a large family, income taxes are far lower. I have a double-digit size family, so even though I make good money we still pay very little in income tax due to all the deductibles. Then of course, we also buy used as much as possible and pay little in sales tax.
    4. Lastly: regarding the above comments on inflation and the FED, just get out! Keep your money in physical form (precious metals) or in a 401k as stocks (tax free on gain, and take it out slowly once 65 yo). This can minimize inflation and the government’s take to fund baby mommas…and I know nobody who pays taxes on used items they sell; one can easily find people to buy precious metals in bullion form for cash when they are ready to buy something (I’m always in the market to buy bullion myself…it’s far harder to find somebody willing to sell bullion than to buy). This method avoids both the inflation and the taxes.

    It’s a war zone against liberal government in all its forms. Fight wisely.

  140. Farm Boy

    It’s a war zone against liberal government in all its forms

    It is almost as if the government was trying to destroy society….

  141. Farm Boy

    Aren’t women currently less likely to declare themselves feminist?

    That is because society has already given them what they think they want such that there is no cache in being a feminist anymore. The edginess is gone.

    Why fight the man when you are the man?

  142. Farm Boy

    says white Santa has to go. Wants to replace him with a penguin.

    A penguin at the north pole would not last long.

    Would there be a Mrs. Penguin? Would she hen-peck him to death?

    Milk and cookies would probably be out. Smelly fish would be in.

  143. FuzzieWuzzie

    Well, I have to hand it to Ton. The teddy bears aren’t going to work. Maybe, we can cook something up that will. Let’s hope that it doesn’t go as far as mud huts. I like hot and cold running water.

  144. Norm

    There is a college in British Columbia which offers a Women in Trades program. They get to sample different trades and then can decide which one they may like. I know some women who have gone on to become good at the trades they chose afterwards. They also told me that a lot of the women took that course for a social club, and by the end of the course most were not talking to each other and many did not have to pay for the course, even though they were not in financial difficulty, and at the end of the class, most did not want to clean up the shop afterwards. The head of the department is a heavy set woman who probably never used more than a hammer or screwdriver and gets well paid. When the class had an orientation, they were given free pizza, not doubt paid by the college(ie taxpayers).
    http://www.okanagan.bc.ca/Page19415.aspx

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  146. Cautiously Pessimistic

    Sorry, but the trades today are so advanced with technology, smart phone controlled heating, lights, etc. Boilers that “think” to be as efficient as possible…. that we actually need the higher IQ people. The old saw of sending the dumb boys into the trades so that they can make a living, is quickly disappearing

    Yeeeh-no-sort-of. I’m in an industry that is going through a great deal of complexitization (telecom). The technicians do indeed have to know an astonishing amount of information in order to do their job well. However, rather than being trained to a sufficient level to do the job well, most are being trained to do ceremonial rites in the hope they’ll fix most of the problems. There’s little understanding of what’s wrong or what will fix it. They just do A, and if that doesn’t work, they do B, and if that doesn’t work, they write off the customer and hope someone smart fixes the problem eventually.

    I’m of the opinion that the complexity of our technical infrastructure is approaching the point where there won’t be enough competent techs to maintain it. At some point, the systems will have to be simplified, or their use will have to be localized to fewer areas that can support competent technicians. The rest of the folks will have intermittent service or none at all. Something’s gotta give at some point, anyway, and I don’t see us having a windfall of competent techs to keep everything running smoothly and keep up with all the innovation and regulation (more of the later than the former).

    I guess it’s like the idea of ripping all the computers out of our cars to make them easier to maintain. They’d still do the job of getting us from point A to point B, but wouldn’t stop working because a bit got set, would get worse gas mileage, and we could f@cking fix them with a good understanding of mechanics.

  147. anonymous_ng

    @ArtisanalToad makes some good points about trusts and the protection of the familial assets etc. In some states however, the gain or appreciation of non-marital assets is itself a marital asset, in which case, you’re screwed.

    http://www.bedrockdivorce.com/blog/?p=293 Near the bottom is this gem.
    * In many states, if your separately owned property increases in value during the marriage, that increase in value may also be considered marital property. The division of this particular subset of marital property can be further complicated by the differentiation between active and passive appreciation of the assets.

    Here’s a very recent article on Cook Island trusts.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/business/international/paradise-of-untouchable-assets.html?pagewanted=1&src=me

    Also, I think that it’s not the Anderson Arc case, but instead Denyse and Michael Anderson who had the Cook Island trust.

    Also, family limited partnerships are another option for asset protection.

    Am I paranoid? :-)

  148. Ton

    The IQ required to do things is on the rise. The minimum brain power required to be an engineer 50 years ago will let you be a technician of some sort today. I see specialization becoming a bigger deal before simplification. Like you’ll have one well trained technician batting clean up to say 10-15 regular technicians, with the regular technicians confirming problems, doing minor work etc freeing up the time of the better/ smarter technician. I watched that trend play out in the army with civilian contractors as the super technician and my little brother said the same thing was happening in his line of work as well

    Same kind of thing has been going on in my own line of work, as low tech as it is, with technology now reducing some of the training/ smarts required

  149. Farm Boy

    Every once in a while, feminists acknowledge reality.

    When one sees the cats, then you know that it happened.

  150. DeNihilist

    Pessimistic, you make my point for me. Also I think that a lot of what we are seeing is the lack of common sense. I have worked 25 years on boiler systems. Simple until about 10m years ago. Though I do not really understand all the technologies, I still have a great grasp of what should occur and when, so just from this common sense, I am still considered a “guru” when it comes to wet heating systems.

    As for the women in skills program. Yeah they bug me every couple of months to either come to a meeting to find out about this, or to “brainstorm” to try to develope ways of getting more chicks into the trades. Not the least bit interested!

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