Possibly the worst advice for young women in the whole history of the internet.

 

Vanessa Elizabeth: I hear she gives great…something. Not advice, that’s for sure.

Is the title of this post hyperbole?  You be the judge:

“As 2013 wraps up, I’ve been noticing more and more people getting engaged and/or married under the age of 23.

I get it.

It’s cold outside… you want to cuddle and talk about your feelings… life after graduation is a tough transition… so why not just cut to the chase and get married, right?  It’s hip. It’s cool. You get to wear clothing that wouldn’t normally be socially acceptable at the dive bar you frequent with the $5 beers.  Eff it. YOLO. YOMO! You only marry once…

Because at the age of 22, I have no idea who I am, what I’m doing, and who I’ll be doing it with for the next year… let alone for the rest of my life.  And that’s awesome.

Some day, I want to get married too.  I want a floor length dress with a ton of cleavage.  I want it to be in Asia, with Ethiopian food, and a filthy scotch selection to calm my nerves when I inevitably start to panic and hyperventilate.  But WANT and NEED are two entirely different things. I NEED to develop MY dreams and MYSELF before I can truly be the type of woman you WANT to marry.

What inspired me to scribble down my feelings (so many feelings!) is The Facebook.  I’m seeing all of these notifications that “X and Y” have joined in matrimony and instantly, these waves of anxiety start to flow over me.  Should I be thinking about marriage? I’ve never even had a serious boy friend? Is there something wrong with me? WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME AND WHY HAS NO ONE TOLD ME ABOUT IT FOR ALL THESE YEARS!?

But then I look at my life, my relationships, and my future… and I realize that, I’m fucking awesome.  It literally isn’t me, it’s them.

I have begun to notice a common thread amongst all these young unions: inexperience.  Inexperience with dating, traveling, risks, higher education, career direction, SEX, solitude, religious exploration, etc… and it’s insane that I have already experienced more of the world in the last 22 years than my married peers will ever experience in their life.

I can’t help but feel like a lot of these unions are a cop-out.

It is a way for young people to hide behind a significant other instead of dealing with life’s highs and lows on their own. It’s a safety blanket. It’s an admission that the world is just too big and scary to deal with it on your own; thus, you now have someone that is legally obligated to support you till one of you dies or files for divorce…

If your love is truly eternal, what’s the rush? If it’s real, that person will continue to be committed to you 2 months from now, 2 years from now, and 2 decades from now. Grow, learn, travel, party, cuddle, read, explore. Do. Freaking. Something… other than “settle down” at 23 with a white picket fence.

Because you owe it to yourself.  You are a human being that deserves to thrive inside AND outside of a relationship.

Sure.  Some days I wake up and stare at my ceiling thinking: “I’m single as fuck.”  But then I realize that those friends are going to get knocked up and fat soon sssoooo in retrospect, who really is winning here? I’m in China. I’m having the best time of my life. I am responsible for my own happiness.

Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.

1. Get a passport.

2. Find your “thing.”

3. Make out with a stranger.

4. Adopt a pet.

5. Start a band.

6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too.

7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage.

8. Explore a new religion.

9. Start a small business.

10.Cut your hair.

11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face.

12. Build something with your hands.

13. Accomplish a Pinterest project.

14. Join the Peace Corps.

15. Disappoint your parents.

16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again.

17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting.

18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places.

19. Sign up for CrossFit.

20. Hangout naked in front of a window.

21. Write your feelings down in a blog.

22. Be selfish.

23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year.

… because at the end of the day, I just gotta wander onwards. Wishing everyone whiskey and wanderlust during the holidays.”

I am…speechless.  No, wait.  I’m furious! This is the horrible training I was talking about in the last thread.  Someone at the men’s Red Pill Reddit linked to my last post, and in the comment thread, Nemester wrote:

“I am feeling joy from her pain. I would pay money to watch this fkg whr cry herself to sleep.”

Whoever wrote this is awesome.I second this. Let’s all experience the schadenfreude.

and I read that while I was at work and thought, “No, no, that bad man, we mustn’t give in to schadenfreude, we must educate and pray for the young women,” but now I say, “I am sorry, Nemester, you are right.  When Vanessa Elizabeth turns 32 and has no husband, let’s you and I throw a Schadenfreude Party and invite everyone we know.”  Maybe Rollo will supply the adult beverages.

Single young women, listen to your Aunt Sunshine Mary please.  Look right at me.  I know there has to be at least…I don’t know, three? of you out there reading this.  Please listen to me.

DO NOT DO THIS!  This is bad, evil, female-herd advice.  Be like Allamagoosa, not like Vanessa Elizabeth, lest you end up like SIngleIndianFemaleAge32, or even worse.

You have been warned.

And on the matter of the young woman who wrote this article…men.  We have to talk.  For the love of all that is good and holy and decent, for the love of your future children, your bank account, and your freaking masculine dignity, I literally beseech you to STOP MARRYING USED-UP, DRIED-OUT, EX-CAROUSEL-RIDING SLUTS!  If any of you ever marry this women, I’ll…I don’t know…I’ll find out about it somehow and reach right through this here internet and slap you.  Or something.

(My thanks to Lovelyleblanc for leaving the link to this in the last comment thread.)

Further warnings for young women to heed:

1. From Dalrock’s Losing control of the narrative.

if you are a young woman looking to have it all sticking the landing isn’t something you need to worry about right now.  You need to focus on your feminist merit badge while getting rogered by men who are very different than the kind of man you will eventually pressure to marry, the man to whom you will insist you “aren’t that kind of woman” so he needs to put a ring on it.  And of course you need to make sure the pool of suckerspotential husbands don’t notice what the larger script is.

This is where it is all starting to unravel.  Game and the internet are conspiring to make it much more difficult to keep this open secret under wraps.  Part of the problem is previous generations of women got married at such high rates the plan seems foolproof.  Likewise, the fact that so many other women are doing the same thing provides a sense of safety in numbers.  All of these factors are combining to create an environment where the men they are counting on manning up are instead at risk of catching on.

2. Sunshine Mary:

293 thoughts on “Possibly the worst advice for young women in the whole history of the internet.

  1. donalgraeme

    And on the matter of the young woman who wrote this article…men. We have to talk. For the love of all that is good and holy and decent, for the love of your future children, your bank account, and your freaking masculine dignity, I literally beseech you to STOP MARRYING USED-UP, DRIED-OUT, EX-CAROUSEL-RIDING SLUTS! If any of you ever marry this women, I’ll…I don’t know…I’ll find out about it somehow and reach right through this here internet and slap you

    You need not worry about me in regards to this SSM. I will join a monastery or become a hermit in the desert long before even considering one of these women as a wife. And that is my holding back my thoughts, too.

  2. Farm Boy

    Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too.

    I wonder if Lindy took this advice…..

  3. donalgraeme

    Oh, and advice like this is meant to sabotage other women, so by the time this washed up harlot tries to marry, she will look better than them by comparison.

    [ssm: Agreed.]

  4. allamagoosa

    Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.
    1. Get a passport. (Did that.)
    2. Find your “thing.” (Found my thing at age 3.)
    3. Make out with a stranger. (Ew.)
    4. Adopt a pet. (Did that.)
    5. Start a band. (Why? I have no musical anything.)
    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (Don’t wanna be fat.)
    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (Ow, no.)
    8. Explore a new religion. (More than happy with mine thanks.)
    9. Start a small business. (Did/doing that.)
    10.Cut your hair. (Did that, it was awful.)
    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (Why?)
    12. Build something with your hands. (Done that.)
    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (I don’t need Pinterest for inspiration.)
    14. Join the Peace Corps. (Not really interested.)
    15. Disappoint your parents. (Done that, sadly.)
    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (Why? I’d rather watch Top Gear.)
    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (Again, don’t wanna be fat.)
    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (I do that with my collar.)
    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (Eventually.)
    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (No!)
    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (Done that. I write poetry too.)
    22. Be selfish. (Everyone does that. Trying not to do it too much.)
    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (No thanks, I got plans.)

    And I’m only 22.

    [ssm: Alla, if you were single, I'd marry you, no homo, lol. This is awesome!]

  5. Farm Boy

    But then I look at my life, my relationships, and my future… and I realize that, I’m fucking awesome

    Not.one.ounce.of.humility.

    And what does she reallly have going for her?
    * She looks good
    * She is sassy with moxie (the no fat version)

  6. Lady Just Saying

    I don’t see anything in the 23 things to do, that are in and of themselves so wrong to do. (A couple are border line, but not terrible). Maybe I’m missing your point on this, unless the point is don’t waste time, get married ASAP, or you might miss your chance.

    [ssm: Some of the things are dumb, but that isn't the point. The point is, I too have done a number of those things, but I did them while married. Who the heck passes on marriage so they can eat a jar of Nutella? Her advice can be boiled down to "Don't let your future husband have one second more of your youthful beauty than you absolutely have to give him. Doing ANYTHING, even gorging on Nutella, is better than getting married, she says. May she reap what she sows. But while there is breath yet in my lungs, I will speak against this kind of thing. Young women are incredibly impressionable and herd-like, and these kinds of essays glamorizing foolish behavior can cause lasting consequences. See: The Bitter Babe ("never married, over 40, slightly bitter")]

  7. Farm Boy

    Disappoint your parents.

    She might have already done so.

    But we really don’t know, do we.

    And this shows the sad state of affairs of this world.

  8. donalgraeme

    @ Lady

    It is the mindset, more than anything. Individually, some aren’t bad at all. They might even be good. But the mindset of “I HAVE to do this” is inherently self-destructive. It obscures young women to what is important in life, and so they chase after trivialities instead. Lists like this lead up to women like the one in the last post.

    [ssm: Exactly. It's doing this list INSTEAD of marriage...but what does that say about her attitude toward marriage? That all fun is over once the ring hits your finger? That hasn't been my experience at all. I spent four years as an adult without my husband (18-22) and I've spent 22 years as an adult with my husband (22-44). I have done so much more in those 22 years and had so much fun and have so many amazing memories that I share with him. I don't need or want a separate life to look back on and fantasize about. I have wonderful memories of my husband and me doing interesting things together. The way she frames this is really revealing...also notice how she speaks of marriage - she describes the wedding, mentioning only her fancy dress, enormous cleavage, and "filthy" (wut?) Scotch. The man appears to be nothing but a prop in her fantasy, a fantasy that must not come to fruition until she's drunk and banged her way across Asia, apparently.]

  9. Bob Wallace

    My last semester in college, allofasudden women who had shown no interest in me were suddenly showing it, to the point they were putting their hands on me and squeezing me. I knew what was going on: they were looking for a husband. One told me: “All women want to get married.” I figured many of them were thinking: after college, how am I supposed to find a guy?

    I figure that’s what’s going on here with these marriages at 22, if most of them graduated at the age, give or take a year.

  10. thegreatshebang

    The 23 suggestions and comment that she is “awesome” are cliche implicit statements that she has little empathy for other people, no connection to men as human beings, a poor relationship with her parents and has plans to ride the cock carousel forever. Only the Wall will eventually change her plans.

  11. Chris

    Allahmagoosa, you are a woman that NSR should cherish… you even like top gear.
    This chick?
    No. Far too full of pride, and will not accept correction, or frame.
    No. Will bore of any man, and go sampling elsewhere, for all men are chumps
    No. Checked with a son: both of us think there is something wrong with how she looks — far too artificial.
    Shit, no. Probably Indian, in rebellion from that culture, and I won’t go native in that caste haunted place. Culture matters.
    I’d rather join a monastory.
    And I am not catholic, nor suited for Monkdom.

  12. Red

    There was a period were ex party girls like this one could get married to a weak man. Today due to very high opinion that women have of themselves even dried up sluts can’t bring themselves to hook up with a weak man when she’s past her prime. The constant increase in women’s self esteem is headed towards the feminist singularity where no men will will be good enough for any women and women will have to content themselves with flings, other women and twilight novels.

  13. earl

    “If any of you ever marry this women, I’ll…I don’t know…I’ll find out about it somehow and reach right through this here internet and slap you. Or something.”

    That might be the least painful thing from a woman that would happen if a guy was to marry her.

  14. sunshinemary Post author

    Following Allamagoosa’s example, I’ve put my answers in parentheses. Note that I married at 22, and so most of the things I’ve done as an adult, I’ve done with a husband. Also note that I have visited nearly 20 countries since marrying.

    1. Get a passport. (Done while married.)

    2. Find your “thing.” (Done while married.)

    3. Make out with a stranger. (Sounds pretty overrated to me. Oral herpes anyone?)

    4. Adopt a pet. (Done after marriage.)

    5. Start a band. (I’m a solo act.)

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (I make cakes all the time. Are these special “single, strong, independent” girl cakes??)

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (Ugh. This one I did before marriage. #thingsIregret #thingsmyhusbandwouldhaveprevented)

    8. Explore a new religion. (But Vanessa will return to the church when her eggs are about to expire so she can rope a man who has to get married to get laid, won’t she?)

    9. Start a small business. (Done after marriage – private contract work as an SLP.)

    10.Cut your hair. (Done after marriage. Luckily husband did not divorce me (kidding).)

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (Why would I want to be a slut?)

    12. Build something with your hands. (Done before marriage and while married.)

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (Can do while married.)

    14. Join the Peace Corps. (Never done; this one would be hard to do while married I guess.)

    15. Disappoint your parents. (Never done this in any significant way that I know of. Why would I try to do that?)

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (KILL YOUR TV!)

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (I was a slim bride, so no, I didn’t eat Nutella out of the jar, but I could have done so while married, easily. I’ve certainly had little one-night affairs with pints of Ben and Jerry’s.)

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (I do this on the internet every day. I think it goes with my #2. I do this while married, amazingly enough.)

    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (Does it count as exploring a new religion if I do? ‘Cause Cross-Fitters all seem to think it’s next to godliness.)

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (Never done, and if I see Vanessa doing this one, it’ll be…”Hello, 911? Yes, there is woman committing public indecency while our children are waiting for the school bus.”)

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (Got this one covered, with a husband no less.)

    22. Be selfish. (3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4)

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (No thanks, I’ve got a man. What about you? No? Gee, that’s too bad, Vanessa.)

  15. earl

    Let’s just see how crusty old me stacks up.

    Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.
    1. Get a passport. (not that big of deal)
    2. Find your “thing.” (it’s in between my legs)
    3. Make out with a stranger. (done it…not that great)
    4. Adopt a pet. (nah…I’d rather have kids over the substitute)
    5. Start a band. (air guitar is just fine)
    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (clever…and fattening)
    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (no…both go away due to death)
    8. Explore a new religion. (I like mine…no need to)
    9. Start a small business. (I sell shrimp out of a van)
    10.Cut your hair. (use the clippers and buzz it every week…not that big of deal)
    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (2 days)
    12. Build something with your hands. (did it)
    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (what’s Pinterest?)
    14. Join the Peace Corps. (war is more entertaining)
    15. Disappoint your parents. (did it growing up…not that big of deal)
    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (Lena Dunham is nightmare fuel)
    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (goes good with peanut butter)
    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (so that they can share my awkwardness?)
    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (but I don’t actually have to do it)
    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (too cold)
    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (does commenting my feelings on a blog count)
    22. Be selfish. (what’s yours is mine…what’s mine is mine too)
    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (Filipinos celebrate Chinese holidays?)

  16. The Karamazov Idea

    *I meant other blog post.

    My simple reaction: whatever she says, girls should do the opposite.

    1. Get a passport.

    Get more involved in your family and community. Men don’t value wandering vagabond women. They value anchors that are rooted in the Earth of their community.

    2. Find your “thing.”

    Blatant new-age-ism bull, but I’ll take a shot anyways. “Finding your thing” sounds a lot like “find where you fit in.” If you don’t fit, change yourself. Don’t change your vision of reality to suit your preferences. Change your preferences to suit reality.

    3. Make out with a stranger.

    Don’t make out with anybody whose parents you haven’t been introduced to in the context of a relationship.

    4. Adopt a pet.

    Pets are not suitable substitutes for human affection. Your dog doens’t like you. He probably thinks you’re a c***t. He just likes that you scratch his ears and feed him. Cats are only alpha-male stand-ins. Unlike the dog, they include a strong dose of condescension with their fur. Pets are all good and well, but you and I both know you’ll treat it like a surrogate child or worse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3p1mXHfqY

    5. Start a band.

    Don’t. Learning an instrument is one thing. Bands are a matter of egoism, a trait most unattractive in a future wife.

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too.

    Don’t. You’re pudgy already and probably so are the women reading your stupid list. Learn to cook good delicious nutritious food.

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage.

    Never. It signals to decent, intelligent, hard-working men who have spines that you care far too much what other people think of you and have a juvenile rebellious streak. It’s become my first litmus test and has steered me clear of many a trainwreck (facebook is a nice tool to watch self-destruction from a distance).

    8. Explore a new religion.

    I’d agree if she didn’t mean any of the new-age goddess-worship crap and meant actual orthodox Christianity.

    9. Start a small business.

    Starting a business requires actual skill and expertise in a field which takes time to acquire. If you’re running around adopting pets, playing in a band, getting a passport, and throwing your money away on prison ink, I think it’s safe to say you don’t have these.

    10.Cut your hair.

    Only if you want to become a sexual hermit for 6-16 months. Girls with short hair range from invisible to leprous on the male-attention meter. The grrrlpower tingles also don’t feel as good or empowering as other people say they do and the “re-growing” stage is long, awkward, and you still look terrible.

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face.

    Again, grrrrl power feels a lot better as fantasy than reality. Also, your credibility goes to hell. A man that can lead multiple girls on is looked at as a desirable undomesticated cad, a Don Juan. A woman who has sex with multiple men in the same period in fixed exchanges is called a whore.

    12. Build something with your hands.

    Like what? I can think of a dozen things I’d build or tinker with but they’re all cars, firearms, guitars and furniture. Men are not attracted to “mechanic” girls. We view them as patronizingly cute at best and unfeminine at worst. Learn to cook, clean, sew, and do other useful skills instead.

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project.

    Swear off social media.

    14. Join the Peace Corps.

    Don’t waste time with eco-commies in barbaric parts of the world with no running water. Also, your imaginary husband won’t be thrilled to hear the story of how you lost your virginity in became diversified from a touching tribal ritual with Ugha-ahga. We won’t find it touching.

    15. Disappoint your parents.

    Judging by 1-14, you’ve probably already accomplished this admirably.

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again.

    If you must watch the idiot-tube or cinema, watch old-school black and white movies. It was the epitome of film and there have never been actors like Grant, Flynn, and Bogart. Better yet, learn to read (not Twilight, etc.).

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting.

    Do 300 crunches in one sitting.

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places.

    Again, with 1-17 you’ve probably already accomplished this.

    19. Sign up for CrossFit.

    Save money and do calisthenics. Also, your convenient excuses for not exercising all go away when all you need is 6×4 feet of floor-space.

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window.

    Every single girl I knew in college who did this was fat and self-conscious. I couldn’t make this up. It’s basic economic principle. If you can’t charge for it, you have to give it away for free.

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog.

    Don’t. Writing isn’t for feelings. Writing is for thinking. Even the best emotionally evocative writing and poetry comes from thought.

    22. Be selfish.

    Because that’s what all men desire in a spouse.

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year.

    I’ll pass. Also, when a woman resorts to begging for company, she’s hit the magical zenith point that the only people who solicit her will be ones she cannot pair with as she considers herself above them.
    ————————————————-
    Again I’ve taken liberties speaking for men. That was apparently one of my biggest sins with the Tat blog. Regardless of opinions people express, my observations about men (being one, watching them, bulwarked by the exhaustive statistical analysis of Dalrock and the snide documentation of Heartiste), are largely on-point.

    [ssm: Really good advice here; nearly fell off the treadmill laughing when I read #20, though.]

  17. Lady Just Saying

    Wouldn’t marrying young and regretting it because she feels like she missed out be worse? At this point, the consequences of her mistakes will fall on her, later the consequences of her mistakes could fall on a husband and young children when she decides she married too young. This could happen later as well, but the younger a person is when marrying the more likely a divorce.

  18. thegreatshebang

    Now “the bitter babe” blog IS Shadenfreude
    … … because she shows no awareness in her writings of what went wrong.

  19. Farm Boy

    Wouldn’t marrying young and regretting it because she feels like she missed out be worse?

    Perhaps. The entitlement mentality is strong. In the old days, women were not allowed such choices. And it was good that they were not.

  20. Velvet

    Stand naked in front of a window? lol, wut?

    I think she’s not only a disappointment to her parents, but also a complete failure at being a failure, what the hell kind of list is that? She might be retarded, did she mention an IQ?

    I don’t hear “grrrrl power”, I hear a “sassy” gal alone yet again with a pint of haagen daas. I don’t think worst advice ever is the list bit hyperbolic. It’s not only self destructive, it’s dull as dishwater.

    [ssm: No kidding, these aren't even good ones. No sense of humor. I could write a way better list. Maybe I should try, and see if XOJane will publish it...lol, that would be the Troll Coup of the Year, wouldn't it?]

  21. Leap of a Beta

    Sometimes I wonder how little girls manage to get potty trained with all this rebellion, grrrrl power, and ‘being as good as a man’ going on from birth. It seems like they all need to be rocked to sleep in a cradle – with nutella, wine, ben and jerry’s, a cat, and/or their own tears. What would their lullaby be?

  22. Chris

    Wimps.

    Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.
    1. Get a passport. (Onto my third or fourth.)
    2. Find your “thing.” (I have one between my legs, Oh, you mean reason for living and life? Well that’s ‘To know God and enjoy him forever”)
    3. Make out with a stranger. (Done, regretted.)
    4. Adopt a pet. (multiple times. )
    5. Start a band. (No. Not hard enough. Sit in a jazz band (Done) and join an orchestra (done))
    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (Better… step away from the cats)
    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (no. Seen what happens to them as you age?)
    8. Explore a new religion. (Christ is the only way)
    9. Start a small business. (Lots of contract work)
    10.Cut your hair. (Not done. )
    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (never. Never wanted to. If I date you, I LIKE you, and I don’t do manipulations)
    12. Build something with your hands. (well d
    oh)
    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (why use a boring website? Better — install gentoo or arch on a laptop)
    14. Join the Peace Corps. (Not American. Not going to. Like my nation too much)
    15. Disappoint your parents. (Yep, All too often)
    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (pass me the mind bleach)
    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (and induce nausea, just like peanut butter)
    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (why?)
    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (And ruin what joints I have left?)
    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (male. Instant arrest awaits. Beside, I am neither a supermodel nor an elite athlete — clothes exist because there is not enough mind bleach in the world)
    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (which one “-) )
    22. Be selfish. (toar too lazy. Be sacrificial. Get married, raise a family, lose the marriage, get the kids back… this is so facile)
    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (Why do this when Auckland goes off on Chinese New Year and I have lived in a Mixed marriage with a Chinese woman?)

    The list is stupid.
    Marriage does not end your life, women: in fact travelling by yourself becomes incredibly lonely — I now limit the trips to the essential ones.

    I’d rather travel like I did when married — with someone else, who sees things you don’t and who you can discuss things with.

    [ssm: LOL, well-done, Chris. You and Earl are cracking me up with your replies to #2; my mind didn't even go there...probably because I have no thing.]

  23. sunshinemary Post author

    By the way, it wasn’t her list of 23 things that was the “worst advice”; it was this part:

    But then I look at my life, my relationships, and my future… and I realize that, I’m fucking awesome. It literally isn’t me, it’s them.

    I have begun to notice a common thread amongst all these young unions: inexperience. Inexperience with dating, traveling, risks, higher education, career direction, SEX, solitude, religious exploration, etc… and it’s insane that I have already experienced more of the world in the last 22 years than my married peers will ever experience in their life.

    I can’t help but feel like a lot of these unions are a cop-out.

    It is a way for young people to hide behind a significant other instead of dealing with life’s highs and lows on their own. It’s a safety blanket. It’s an admission that the world is just too big and scary to deal with it on your own; thus, you now have someone that is legally obligated to support you till one of you dies or files for divorce…

    If your love is truly eternal, what’s the rush? If it’s real, that person will continue to be committed to you 2 months from now, 2 years from now, and 2 decades from now. Grow, learn, travel, party, cuddle, read, explore. Do. Freaking. Something… other than “settle down” at 23 with a white picket fence.

    NO! This is the part that is wrong; the list of 23 things is just stupid, but THIS is actively evil. I love the way she shames her married friends because she is “experiencing more of life” (i.e. lotsa cokcas) than they ever will.

  24. Cail Corishev

    Completely aside from the content, what strikes me is the petulant, arrogant, affected world-weary attitude. No one is really this confident and worldly at 23, but she sure wants to sound like it. I’m so tired of reading women (and it’s mostly women) who write like they just discovered snark and think the more of it they use the better. So tiresome. She’s not even that attractive; take away the Mayan Eye of Coitus and really look at her face for a few minutes. She has five years, at best, before the Wall; and she’s going to hit it hard.

    [ssm: "The Mayan Eye of Coitus"...bwahahahaha...]

  25. Days of Broken Arrows

    This isn’t new. This is the same advice guidance “counselors” and feminist-brainwashed moms were giving to their daughters in the ’80s and ’90s. It’s usually borne out of jealousy. Unhappy people don’t like to see young lovers happy.
    All this advice accomplished was that women who would have married at 23, ended up marrying at 39 to pretty much the same guy they’d have paired with in their youth (women tend to date the same guy over and over again, unlike men who prefer variety). Since these marriages happened so late in the game, no one ended up having any kids. Which might be the real goal here.

  26. earl

    I’m sure after her awesome 20s, her “18″ boyfriends, and she turns 32 some dude will man up and marry her.

    And that is the worst part of this whole story in my opinion. There are still men who value themselves so little to commit to something like that.

  27. sunshinemary Post author

    Also, note the title she gives the list:

    “Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.”

    What makes this advice absolutely DREADFUL for young women isn’t that the items are dumb, it’s that she encourages girls to do them in lieu of marriage…but really it isn’t about the list. It’s about cultivating a strongindependentyougogrrl brand.

    Who was it in the last thread that said this isn’t so much about feminism as it is about pathological levels of narcissism in young women? I agree with that, though feminism enables it.

  28. Farm Boy

    Are these special “single, strong, independent” girl cakes??

    Of course not. They are Ho-Ho’s

    And they were purchased

    Would you expect someone so amazing to actually cook?

    [ssm: LOL]

  29. Farm Boy

    How about adding “Filming my very own two girls, one cup” video. It would be empowering. Maybe they could use nutella. Two for one.

  30. Chris

    Well, I did not quote this yesterday, but the correct response was written by Alte/butterflysquash/whoever, way back a few years ago.

    Gentlemen…. ignore her list, and look instead at this one. A partial quote

    Nothing results in a domestic-violence incident as fast as feminine hysterics. You know what I’m talking about: she gets all worked up about something, chases you through the house, screams at you, throws things, etc. Even if it’s never happened to you, you probably know of someone who’s had it happen. Nip this sort of thing in the bud ASAP. Don’t let it escalate and don’t attempt to reason with her. Talking to a crazy person will make you a crazy person.

    If she starts to rant on, and you can see her self-control start to slip, simply walk away. She will either become immediately quiet in shock, or she will get even more worked up and start yelling at you Don’t you walk away from me!
    If that occurs, leave the room, or even the house. Just get away, until she cools down and becomes rational again. You might have to take the kids with you. And the fine china, if she’s so inclined.
    If something similar occurs while you are driving the car, pull over immediately and stop the vehicle. Get out, or make her get out, until you both calm down. Do not drive with a crazy woman in your car.
    I know that sometimes her anger is justified and righteous, and your guilt tempts you to stay and “talk it out”, but that doesn’t matter now. All that matters is that you get the heck away from her, until she calms down. You can discuss the actual topic later. Right now just concentrate on self-preservation, and avoid getting chased with golf clubs, or pushed to violence yourself.

    Note and memorize, gentlemen, note and memorize.

    Because if you are fool enough to marry someone like this, you will need this advice.

  31. sunshinemary Post author

    Sometimes Ton drives me nuts, but I li-truh-lee cannot wait to hear his take on Vanessa. lol, maybe I should unmod RPSMF and really let the good times roll.

  32. OffTheCuff

    V: “I NEED to develop MY dreams and MYSELF before I can truly be the type of woman you WANT to marry”

    My favorite line.

    I could buy the “be selfish” thing, but, the “you, unspecified male in the future, *want* me to be selfish” really takes the cake.

    Sorry, no, I’d rather marry a 23-year old. Oops, that’s right, I did.

    [ssm: :) ]

  33. sunshinemary Post author

    She says: I NEED to develop MY dreams and MYSELF before I can truly be the type of woman you WANT to marry.

    You hear: I NEED to…secretly taped buhttextual lotsacokas something something…my dreams…MYSELF…me, me, me…but seriously, let’s talk about me…whoa nelly I am 33, is that my last three ova calling to ME?…WHERE HAVE ALL THE GOOD MEN GONE!!?

  34. thegreatshebang

    The blogger with 23 bullet points clearly states that she thinks marriage is:
    a) a contract where someone is forced to support you forever; and
    b) some beta chump who commits to her will still be pining for her for years.

    Better this woman never marry than have married going just for a beta’s resources, cuckold him, then score frivorce cash and prizes

  35. Boxer

    I just laughed myself senseless, following the “single indian female, age 32″ link.

    Come on, now. Don’t any of you traditional minded Hindu brothers want to wife that up? When are you Peter Pan manboys going to grow a pair and do the right thing?

    Thanks again for the comic relief, and Happy New Year!

    [ssm: Hi Boxer, Happy New Year to you as well!]

  36. FuzzieWuzzie

    Telling girls to go out and sow wild oats? This is feminine sabotage. I did notice that she admitted to never having a serious relationship. Could that go to motive?
    As it stands, she is too self-centered for a serious relationship. She has crippled herself.

  37. mel

    I agree with this, except that I still feel sympathy for these women. I was one…

    I was a bar slut. I was programmed. I didn’t start looking for a husband until I was 26. I married a programmed man at 29. We waited 3 years to have a baby. I’m a career manager and thought that was the most important thing in the world for years. And now, at 38 in a week, I regret SO much of those choices I made in my twenties. I regret that I’m so busy managing my office that I can’t properly manage my home. I regret that the life my Husband and I built only had room for one child. I regret that I wasn’t able to recognize sooner my desire to submit.

    We need to educate as many girls as possible about the fact that it’s ok to want to be a mommy, and how much easier that is if you make sure to prioritize family OVER career.

    I just had this great conversation with my preteen nieces over the holidays. And I will continue these discussions with them as long as they’ll let me.

    My son is only five, but I talk to him all the time about why he doesn’t have siblings and what mommy and daddy’s roles are, and would be in a perfect world.

    Let’s spend our energy shaping the next generations, not torturing the current, sad, lonely, and broken one.

    [ssm: Welcome, Mel, and thank you for sharing your story. You and I are both recovering from the effects of feminism in our lives; let us try to help the next generation understand what truly makes life meaningful - God and family.]

  38. FuzzieWuzzie

    About dating two at once, when I was a kid, my Dad told me of a classmate who did just that. The venue was a college football game. I’ll bet he spent more time in transit than with his dates. What a bad idea was my response at the time.

  39. FuzzieWuzzie

    About the Peace Corps, at its inception, when Jack Kennedy was President, it was popular with young people. Since then, the best volunteers have been retired couples. Life experience counts.

  40. dannyfrom504

    Sis-
    These are the same girls I game, that end up wanting a relationship.

    Welcome to my world and my SMP. Now you know what I’m dealing with. Is she attractive…..yes. Is she worth commitment…..NO!!!!

    [ssm: Yep, I thought about that. I thought, "She's it. She is the kind of girl the pick up guys are talking about." She's clearly utterly unmarriageable, so I don't know what's to be done about girls like this. Naturally I don't approve of sex outside of marriage, but.]

  41. Lady Just Saying

    Actually she does look a cross between Snooki from Jersey Shore and maybe a Kardashian cousin.

    Anyway here’s my 23 things to do list. (Actually I married at 19, this was just for fun).

    1. Get a passport. (Haven’t done it yet but I’m planning a sex tourism trip so it’s on my list)

    2. Find your “thing.” (See number 1 — a sex tourism trip)

    3. Make out with a stranger. (See number 1 — I think I have it covered)

    4. Adopt a pet. (Coverred — I have 527 cats)

    5. Start a band. (No musical talent.)

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (I just buy the Ho Hos)

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (I already have a tramp stamp and a sleeve)

    8. Explore a new religion. (I’m an atheist)

    9. Start a small business. (I own a sex shop)

    10.Cut your hair. (Why, when I can shave my head)

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (My husband doesn’t mind if I date)

    12. Build something with your hands. (Does lego forts count)

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (Don’t know what that is)

    14. Join the Peace Corps. (I would have loved too).

    15. Disappoint your parents. (My parents really didn’t give a crap what I did).

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (Hate that show)

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (Never had it, hate peanut butter, and this sounds worse)

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (So much fun)

    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (Don’t know what that is)

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (LOVE it)

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (I can’t spell)

    22. Be selfish. (My fave)

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (Love to)

  42. FuzzieWuzzie

    Cut your hair??? She has gorgeous hair. Haven’t we already covered this topic as feminine sabotage?

  43. sunshinemary Post author

    I have begun to notice a common thread amongst all these young unions: inexperience. Inexperience with dating, traveling, risks, higher education, career direction, SEX, solitude, religious exploration, etc… and it’s insane that I have already experienced more of the world in the last 22 years than my married peers will ever experience in their life.

    You know, I was sort of inexperienced when I got married. How has that worked out?

    Inexperience with dating: well, I had dated some in college before I met my husband my senior year, so I wasn’t entirely inexperienced. No dating experience after marriage, of course.

    Inexperience with travel – Yes, I was inexperienced before marriage BUT since marrying, I’ve traveled to approximately 30 states and nearly 20 countries.

    Inexperience with risks – Yes, before marriage, but after marriage I took reasonable risks with my husband.

    Higher education: I had a B.S. when I married; I earned two M.A.s while married.

    Career direction: Well, I was a waitress before I graduated and got married, but since marriage..well, Google me. I’m listed in all the health care registries for my work as an SLP and I have listings on the “rate my professor” type sites because I’ve taught off and on as adjunct faculty at a local community college.

    Sex: Well, I wasn’t N = 0 when I got married, sadly, but neither was I N = 18-that-I-will-admit-to. Anwyay, when you are in your 20s and married, you’re doin’ it like bunnies. Once the babies come in your 30s, that slows down a bit, of course. YMMV.

    Religious exploration: What does that have to do with marriage? I had some religious experience before marriage and then settled into “spiritual but not religious” like all other the other Ann Arborites I knew. I’ve experienced much more religion over the course of marriage than before.

    Vanessa is confusing marriage with age. I hadn’t done a lot before marriage because I married on the younger side. But I wouldn’t have done a lot of these things by 23 even if I’d been single. I did these things as I gained age, and I had the benefit of gaining many of these experiences with my husband, which gives us precious memories to share.

  44. Hipster Racist

    Oh, this is fun.

    1. Get a passport. (Done at age 7.)

    2. Find your ‘thing.’ (It’s more fun if you find it.)

    3. Make out with a stranger. (Aren’t you going to buy me a drink first?)

    4. Adopt a pet. (I’m picking out your collar now.)

    5. Start a band. (You can be my groupie.)

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (Make me a sandwich.)

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (Tattoos are for white trash.)

    8. Explore a new religion. (Took comparative religions in high school.)

    9. Start a small business. (Done.)

    10. Cut your hair. (I did the male equivalent I guess, had long hair as a teen for a while.)

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (Constantly.)

    12. Build something with your hands. (You know what else I can do with my hands?)

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (What?)

    14. Join the Peace Corps. (Only as unofficial cover.)

    15. Disappoint your parents. (Sadly, a few times.)

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (I saw the parody clip on youtube.)

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (Kinky!)

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (Happens sometimes.)

    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (Kinky!)

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (Just send me a selfie. No duckface.)

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (I write fiction. *wink*)

    22. Be selfish. (Guilty as charged.)

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (Meet me at my place before you leave. Don’t forget the skittles.)

    [ssm: I LOL'd so hard. Should she read this, I believe she would be both indignant and embarrassingly turned on.]

  45. orion

    Excuse me while I point out the obvious…

    I would hit it.
    Hit it, I would.
    Put a ring on it?
    Nooooooooooooo……

  46. FuzzieWuzzie

    Dannyfrom504, If this is what you have to contend with, remaining a bachelor is the sane option. Charlie Brown said it best
    GOOD GRIEF!

  47. earl

    I always notice these lists from women are always so long. Like it’s their bucket list and they would feel validated if some other members of the herd followed along with them.

    Here would be the male eqivalent of the list of things you should do before you get engaged.

    1. Whatever you want to do.

  48. Lady Just Saying

    #Fuzzie

    I do crack myself up sometimes. Glad you had a good laugh. Correction: Instead of the Nutella, I’ll have an egg over easy (the worst kind).

  49. dannyfrom504

    Fuzzie- I have no plans to get married.

    Sis- I know how you feel about sex outside marriage, but consider what I’m dealing with.

    This woman is the typical modern, entitled, western princess. You read what she’s said, she put it all out there.

    I’m just reacting to what I encounter. Do I wish I had better options…..YES!!!! I PRAY for better options. But I’m also a hunter, and Danny needs to eat once in a while.

    I didn’t create the playing field, I just know how to survive/thrive on it.

  50. lovelyleblanc7

    Thanks for the linkage.
    ” For the love of all that is good and holy and decent, for the love of your future children, your bank account, and your freaking masculine dignity, I literally beseech you to STOP MARRYING USED-UP, DRIED-OUT, EX-CAROUSEL-RIDING SLUTS!”
    This.
    I mean the title alone already gives us the idea that she plans to get married one day.
    I feel sorry for the guy who marries her. There is a sucker born every minute.

    I also feel bad for all the women who actually take this crazy woman’s advice. I know there are women sucking it up too because it was shared on my news feed with plenty of likes.
    It is a shame.

    All the women here on this blog know that this girl is just bitter that she isn’t married like her friends and made that post to make herself feel better. That somehow, her life is the better end of the stick. Delusion is real.

  51. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lady Just Saying, my favorite! On top of buttered whole wheat toast that will sponge up the yolk.
    You probably can’t stand to watch other people eat breakfast.
    sorry… :)

  52. Lady Just Saying

    Fuzzie,

    You would be right, I can’t stand watching people eat eggs. My grandmother used to eat them with a clothes pin on her nose, cause she couldn’t stand the smell. My brother doesn’t like them either. I’m just glad DH is willing to cook them for himself. But he does enjoy teasing me about eggs though.

  53. Julian O'Dea

    Yes, she is a dull girl and her list is predictably banal.

    Good points, Karamazov, especially the remark about poetry. This girl is like a bad poem – all feeling and no structure or thought.

    As usual I will say, however, SMASH = some men appreciate short hair.

  54. FuzzieWuzzie

    Dannyfrom504, the worst insult that I have ever heard about a woman was “After I am done with her, I wish she would turn into a six pack of beer.”. It seems like that is the current normal.
    GOOD GRIEF!
    From my own standpoint, I’d like to find one that will stick. I’m lazy that way.

  55. earl

    If she is the typical western woman and she gets all the legal and government benefits for being that way…can your really blame MGTOW?

    There is nothing good out of supporting a woman like this.

  56. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lady Just Saying, all boys love to tease girls about all manner of things. I think it starts in the third grade and we never quite grow out of it.

  57. Amanda

    If I was a betting girl (and I just might be!) I would bet Vanessa is feeling a little pressure and insecurity at her friends’ marriages and is trying to compensate with some pretty silly advice. I’d bet that deep down in secret heart of hearts she knows that real joy, dignity, and honor in life come from maturity, moving into the next phase of adulthood, and being a faithful wife and mother. Her post is bravado IMO. And her cutsey bravado is actually making the whole process of getting a husband even less likely for her.

    (Not to say that a woman who doesn’t marry or have children through no fault of her own cannot have joy and dignity in her life. I am reminded of Anna (of the tribe of Asher! I have a son named Asher), who although was married for a short time, was widowed young with no children and spent almost her entire life serving in the temple. And she was greatly honored by God to see Jesus Christ in the flesh. He has His ways of honoring the faithful!)

  58. Guest

    Since you say that men should be able to “bitch-slap” women, I can’t see why any woman would want to be married at all. Singleness sounds so much better. SSM, wouldn’t you like to be able to follow your own desires and not that of a cheating husband?

    ssm: Let’s review my actual words, dear:

    I personally think it would be quite beneficial for a hysterical shrew to be bitch-slapped back to reality

    Note that I didn’t say all women. I said “hysterical shrews”. Do you know the meaning of the word “hysterical”?

    hysterical, the adjectival form of “hysteria”:

    a state in which your emotions (such as fear) are so strong that you behave in an uncontrolled way

    Get it? It’s not for entertainment purposes.

    But speaking of bitch-slappin’ entertainment:

    The Golden Age of Broad Smacking

    “Do it again, I like it!” LOL

  59. herbie31

    As usual I will say, however, SMASH = some men appreciate short hair.

    LOL! You and your short-haired women. I prefer the longer-locked look but will admit there are many short-hairs(no, not those kind) that look really good. ‘Course, it could just be their legs and ass that make their hair look longer.

  60. Matthew King

    “Speechless”? “Furious”?

    How about pity?

    1. Get a passport.
    2. Find your “thing.”
    3. Make out with a stranger.
    4. Adopt a pet.
    5. Start a band.
    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too.
    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage.
    8. Explore a new religion.
    9. Start a small business.
    10.Cut your hair.
    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face.
    12. Build something with your hands.
    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project.
    14. Join the Peace Corps.
    15. Disappoint your parents.
    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again.
    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting.
    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places.
    19. Sign up for CrossFit.
    20. Hangout naked in front of a window.
    21. Write your feelings down in a blog.
    22. Be selfish.
    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year.
    … because at the end of the day, I just gotta wander onwards. Wishing everyone whiskey and wanderlust during the holidays.

    Has she not heard the Good News?

    Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

    For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

    Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?

    Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?

    If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

    — Matthew 7:7-11

    Moreover:

    Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    — 6:33

    That’s a guarantee from the Big Guy Himself! What more does this pitiable, daft soul want?

    She wants diversion from self. Divertissements.

    Their error does not lie in seeking excitement, if they seek it only as a diversion; the evil is that they seek it as if the possession of the objects of their quest would make them really happy. In this respect it is right to call their quest a vain one. Hence in all this both the censurers and the censured do not understand man’s true nature.

    And thus, when we take the exception against them, that what they seek with such fervor cannot satisfy them, if they replied — as they should do if they considered the matter thoroughly — that they sought in it only a violent and impetuous occupation which turned their thoughts from self, and that they therefore chose an attractive object to charm and ardently attract them, they would leave their opponents without a reply. But they do not make this reply, because they do not know themselves. They do not know that it is the chase, and not the quarry, which they seek.

    — Pascal, Pensees

    So do not scold or sermonize or lecture or sneer. Rather make known to them the better way, where they “might have life, and have it more abundantly” (John 10:10). All of these things and more, when ordered properly.

    If only there had been someone to regulate my disorder and turn to my profit the fleeting beauties of the things around me, and to fix a bound to their sweetness, so that the tides of my youth might have spent themselves upon the shore of marriage! Then they might have been tranquilized and satisfied with having children ….

    But, fool that I was, I foamed in my wickedness as the sea and, forsaking you, followed the rushing of my own tide, and burst out of all your bounds. But I did not escape your scourges. For what mortal can do so?

    You were always by me, mercifully angry and flavoring all my unlawful pleasures with bitter discontent, in order that I might seek pleasures free from discontent. But where could I find such pleasure save in you, O Lord — save in you, who teaches us by sorrow, who wounds us to heal us, and kills us that we may not die apart from you.

    Where was I, and how far was I exiled from the delights of your house, in that sixteenth [twenty-third] year of the age of my flesh, when the madness of lust held full sway in me — that madness which grants indulgence to human shamelessness, even though it is forbidden by your laws — and I gave myself entirely to it?

    — Augustine, Confessions II.ii.3-4

    Matt

  61. thegreatshebang

    @Earl

    If you follow the MGTOW argument all the way through, it goes something like this:

    1) There are “awful” women who write these terrible articles and really believe this advice and see men and marriage in these terrible ways.
    2) If there were only a few rotten apples, then they could just be identified and ignored and not married.
    3) But these “awful” women seem to be everywhere. There are hints of this “awful” nature in all women and furthermore all women seem to “support” these “awful” women. Therefore it must be in women’s very nature to see men as tools.
    4) So women are not “awful”; they are all just like that (AWALT).
    5) It is only if you think all women are just doing their female ways that you can convince yourself to go MGTOW. Remember if it were only a few women you could still go Blue Pill.
    6) But that ALSO means to avoid women like SSM and all the other women bloggers. According to MGTOW: No PUA, no marriage, no SAHM option for women. Nothing until women step up. What is step up? Take the Red Pill.

    So the MGTOW argument is really extreme.

    I however, think men need a biological intimacy. That is why I believe that not many men will go full-MGTOW. But unless a lot of men DO go MGTOW, these unrepentant sluts won’t ever stop their shenanigans. How will it play out? Who can really say?

    In my opinion, it is best to avoid these women and avoid commitment to women but at the same time still OK to search for that intimacy with self-knowledge, the Red Pill and patience (even if you never find that intimacy).

  62. dannyfrom504

    Fuzzie-
    i don’t even care any more. i have the skills to do well. when the urge hits me, i feast. trust me, i WISH things were different and i could find a good woman to claim as my own. but sadly, the woman Mary linked is the majority of the women i encounter in the SMP.

    and i fully admit- physically, she’s my type. she’s the EXACT girl i’d flirt with and run game on. she’s a hard 7 on planet Danny. but look below the surface and it’s clear: she’s not worth more than a fuck. that’s it. she has NOTHING to contribute to enhance my life beyond the physical.

    matter of fact, after i get it in, i’d be bored to tears with her. sad, it really is.

  63. driveallnight

    I’ll actually be in Manila for Chinese NY. And if I stumble upon this trollop, y’all are in for some good laughs come the debriefing.

  64. Pingback: Never Break Character | dannyfrom504

  65. Bee

    “If your love is truly eternal, what’s the rush? If it’s real, that person will continue to be committed to you 2 months from now, 2 years from now, and 2 decades from now.”

    2 decades from now and she won’t be able to have any kids.

    Lots of these issues are a result of young women either being ambivalent or just not wanting to have children, or many children.

  66. sunshinemary Post author

    Mr. King

    How about pity?

    No, sir, I think not. I have pity for those who don’t know what they are doing. She obviously knows.

    But it is far worse than that. She mocks her sisters who are doing right and attempts to lead other young women astray. Leading young women astray is the entire point of her essay, and I must remember Jesus’ words:

    18 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

    5 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

    Knowingly leading others astray was obviously a very serious sin in our Savior’s eyes. Obviously Vanessa is hardly one of the apostles, but then again the Scripture does say “whoever”.

  67. FuzzieWuzzie

    Dannyfrom504, “I don’t care any more.” Of course you care. The problem stems from the fact that they are ruining themselves as good comapny.

  68. sunshinemary Post author

    By the way, I have obviously been linked by someone or some site that gets an enormous amount of traffic and who strongly disagrees with me and therefore would not link properly. They didn’t even use donotlink.com but obviously just wrote my blog name or the name of the post and their readers are copying it into search engines. I have literally never had search engine traffic like I’m getting today, so that’s all I can figure must be happening. I’ve had nearly double my usual number of hits. I wish I knew where the traffic was coming from because I’m curious as to what I wrote that got someone’s undies in such a bunch.

  69. Stg58/Animal Mother

    1. Get a passport. Since I was 12

    2. Find your “thing.” The FN-FAL

    3. Make out with a stranger. Singapore

    4. Adopt a pet. Male Boxer named Jigs

    5. Start a band. I’ve been in a band, just didn’t start it

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. Other people make cake for me.

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. Got three

    8. Explore a new religion. Six months in Kuwait and Iraq is enough for me.

    9. Start a small business. I work in one

    10.Cut your hair. Every week.

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. Dumped one, married the other

    12. Build something with your hands. Again, multiple FN-FAL’s. There’s an STG58 sitting in my safe right now that I built with my own hands.

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. NO

    14. Join the Peace Corps. I joined the War Corps

    15. Disappoint your parents. I don’t like liver

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. NO

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. Peanut Butter

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. Every day of my life

    19. Sign up for CrossFit. Done

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. Every morning

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. Obviously

    22. Be selfish. No one gets to touch my guns

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. No

  70. Chris

    Ain’t me… traffic to you has increased from usual 2 to 3 to 20 or so. But let’s face it, this woman is too easy to fisk, and it hurttzzz it does (gollum voice off, boy, off I say!)

  71. Chris

    Thanks Julian. This blithe assumption vanessa-the-kardashian-wannabe (to distinguish her from Alte) that she will have a thirties, yet alone a fertile thirties, is staggering. Bad things happen. Unexpectedly.

    And her advice is horrible.

  72. Bucho

    Wow. So then what happens if she manages to cross these things off her list? Is this list in any particular order?

    I’m sure she can accomplish 17, 18, 20, and 22 in on quick sweep, plus a few others, perhaps. Oh, and I’m she could go ahead and cross # 15 of her list during the process with this exercise.

  73. FuzzieWuzzie

    Hmmm… A large spike in traffic and no comments. They couldn’t be drawn to the open conversation thread with all its video links? 8-O

  74. Chris

    Well, if Vanessa-the-Kardashian-wannabe meets Dannyfrom504 the best she can hope is that she will disillusioned, as Nic Cave did in this story.

    As I sat sadly by her side
    At the window, through the glass
    She stroked a kitten in her lap
    And we watched the world as it fell past
    Softly she spoke these words to me
    And with brand new eyes, open wide
    We pressed our faces to the glass
    As I sat sadly by her side

    She said, “Father, mother, sister, brother,
    Uncle, aunt, nephew, niece,
    Soldier, sailor, physician, labourer,
    Actor, scientist, mechanic, priest
    Earth and moon and sun and stars
    Planets and comets with tails blazing
    All are there forever falling
    Falling lovely and amazing”

    Then she smiled and turned to me
    And waited for me to reply
    Her hair was falling down her shoulders
    As I sat sadly by her side

    As I sat sadly by her side
    The kitten she did gently pass
    Over to me and again we pressed
    Our different faces to the glass
    “That may be very well”, I said
    “But watch the one falling in the street
    See him gesture to his neighbours
    See him trampled beneath their feet
    All outward motion connects to nothing
    For each is concerned with their immediate need
    Witness the man reaching up from the gutter
    See the other one stumbling on who can not see”

    With trembling hand I turned toward her
    And pushed the hair out of her eyes
    The kitten jumped back to her lap
    As I sat sadly by her side

    Then she drew the curtains down
    And said, “When will you ever learn
    That what happens there beyond the glass
    Is simply none of your concern?
    God has given you but one heart
    You are not a home for the hearts of your brothers

    And God does not care for your benevolence
    Anymore than he cares for the lack of it in others
    Nor does he care for you to sit
    At windows in judgement of the world He created
    While sorrows pile up around you
    Ugly, useless and over-inflated”

    At which she turned her head away
    Great tears leaping from her eyes
    I could not wipe the smile from my face
    As I sat sadly by her side

  75. Chris

    However, Vanessa-the-Kardashian-wannabe, there are risks attached with your exciting path, for down where the rosebushes are the psychopaths and PUAs lurk.

  76. alcestiseshtemoa

    She’s jealous that her friends are all married and that she isn’t. Now let’s see the “list”…

    Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.

    1. Get a passport.

    Did that 2-3 months ago.

    2. Find your “thing.”

    Already did. I’m a varied girl (into accounting, performing arts, philosophy/theology/religion, fitness dance, etc).

    3. Make out with a stranger.

    I have never kissed a guy in the mouth and I will certainly not make my first with a stranger either.

    4. Adopt a pet.

    Did that 7-8 months ago. My 7 year old female German Shepherd died over a drug overdose and as a family we found two new puppies (another female German shepherd and a Golden Retriever female) to add to the still living male German Shepherd (almost 7 years old as well).

    5. Start a band.

    I’m doing individual singing lessons with software, and may play the flute or piano rarely (almost never) so I’m not going to start a group band.

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too.

    I can’t make a cake for now because I’m focused on my sore throat. It hurts.

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage.

    That just speaks to the sad state of marriage nowadays.

    8. Explore a new religion.

    I wouldn’t know where to start…

    9. Start a small business.

    Good idea but it would be best to start a small business with a husband and the entire family together.

    10.Cut your hair.

    Just no. I’m using conditioners, oil and taking biotin vitamins to make my curly hair strong and long. No cutting for me.

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face.

    I get rejected by redheaded white boys and you think I can date two people at once? I’m not exactly all that, and worse is that it would blow up in my face sooner than later.

    12. Build something with your hands.

    I have built sand castles on the beach during a sunny day…

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project.

    Don’t know, don’t care.

    14. Join the Peace Corps.

    Nope, after going to an international school, I think that more “we are the world, saving the world” motto charity stuff may turn out to be not as good as it can be, and can veer towards dangerous habitats and moves.

    15. Disappoint your parents.

    I have already done that before, with behaving badly (e.g. cussing, being ungrateful).

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again.

    I don’t care about this stupid show and have never watched it.

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting.

    I’m not familiar with Nutella (for now).

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places.

    What incentive is there for me to do this? Will I get paid? Will I get filmed?

    19. Sign up for CrossFit.

    I usually do fitness alone (sometimes in public groups, or even with family and friends).

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window.

    I don’t want to scare and bewilder people. Drawing too much attention to myself.

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog.

    I have already done that.

    22. Be selfish.

    Already did that.

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year.

    No, I will be spending it with people I care about (family and friends).

  77. Novaseeker

    And on the matter of the young woman who wrote this article…men. We have to talk. For the love of all that is good and holy and decent, for the love of your future children, your bank account, and your freaking masculine dignity, I literally beseech you to STOP MARRYING USED-UP, DRIED-OUT, EX-CAROUSEL-RIDING SLUTS! If any of you ever marry this women, I’ll…I don’t know…I’ll find out about it somehow and reach right through this here internet and slap you. Or something.

    It’s not generally the men around here, who are in the one-and-done crowd. It’s generally the men “out there”, who will most certainly marry a woman like that when she is 32-35 if she is well maintained enough and hasn’t been too skanky. That’s more the case in secular circles than in Christian ones, but there are nevertheless plenty of Christian men who do the same, as long as the woman in question is saying the right things about having repented. For women, it’s mostly about how good looking they are — at 23, 33, 43 — as long as they haven’t been very skanky, and aren’t psychos or druggies.

  78. Morvena

    She’s jealous that her friends are all married and that she isn’t.

    This is the first thing I thought when I started reading; if these friends seem to be happily married without having experienced all of these things she’s recommending then it’s not really surprising that she’s got that nagging feeling that *she* is the one missing out.

    1. Get a passport. (Did when I was 16.)
    2. Find your “thing.” (I’m both content with my place in life/the world and well aware of where my version of a “thing” is located.)
    3. Make out with a stranger. (Pretty sure my husband would have something to say about this.)
    4. Adopt a pet. (Have done and will do again in the future.)
    5. Start a band. (No musical talent.)
    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (I need to level my baking skill a bit more before I’ll achieve cake mastery. I’m working on it.)
    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (Right, because it’ll look great sagging southward with everything else by the time I’m 70. I can’t help but admire the artistry involved in some of them, though.)
    8. Explore a new religion. (I like the one I have, so only in the context of academic curiosity.)
    9. Start a small business. (I’d make a terrible boss.)
    10. Cut your hair. (Did the opposite and grew it out some after I got engaged.)
    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (This is the most idiotic suggestion I’ve ever seen as it’s dishonest, hurtful, and potentially dangerous depending on the type of men you’re seeing. Do you really want two men to likely be *extremely* pissed at you?)
    12. Build something with your hands. (Do crafts and Ikea-level shelf assembly count?)
    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (I already have plenty of things to do.)
    14. Join the Peace Corps. (Ambivalent; need more information.)
    15. Disappoint your parents. (I’m sure I have at some point.)
    16. Watch GIRLS over and over again. (Don’t know, don’t care, don’t have cable.)
    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (Ugh.)
    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (I guess I could get my husband going on a political rant the next time we go out somewhere.)
    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (Ambivalent; need more information.)
    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (Special security clearance is needed to access this content.)
    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (I don’t have enough time/interest for a blog.)
    22. Be selfish. (I try not to be.)
    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (Thanks, but I’d rather check out Australia/New Zealand or go back to Europe someday if the opportunity ever arises. Besides, I suspect my husband would make a better traveling companion and he isn’t even very interested in traveling anywhere.)

  79. theshadowedknight

    What is the point behind responding to her absurd list of items? A collection of the meaningless, the pointless, the worthless, and the senseless, and none of them truly matter. Instead of trying to outdo her, consider the things that are really important.

    1. Find a good woman who wants a family.
    2. Tell her you love her.
    3. Marry her.
    4. Spend your life with her.
    5. Look after your parents.
    6. Have children with her.
    7. Teach them well.
    8. Raise them to honor the Lord.
    9. Help someone who needs you.
    10. Look after your community.
    11. Offer forgiveness to those who have wronged you.
    12. Repent and apologize to those who you have wronged.
    13. Leave people better than you found them.
    14. Make the world a better place for your children.

    That is some stuff that matters. Not her garbage list.

    The Shadowed Knight

  80. Jenny

    She seems like someone that would be rather irritating in real life. Awful list too – I really hope that she doesn’t have a pet. I am in a list making mood though as it is time to plan my New Year’s Resolutions but I think it will cover very different topics to those posted in the article. x

  81. nightskyradio

    Is it 10 years ago and we’re all on LiveJournal? I’ll play…

    1. Get a passport. – Other countries won’t let me enter.

    2. Find your “thing.” – Found a few, actually.

    3. Make out with a stranger. – What’s the point?

    4. Adopt a pet. – Had quite a few pets over the years.

    5. Start a band. – Would love to. Don’t know anyone who needs a barely-adequate guitarist though.

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. – Did that. Left them both out in the rain.

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. – No.

    8. Explore a new religion. – I’ve looked into some. Nothing convinced me to leave Catholicism.

    9. Start a small business. – Might try making this NSR gig into a little $omething.

    10. Cut your hair. – Not much left to cut. Besides, I always kept it cut in the past.

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. – Hahahha, no. I had dating just one person blow up in my face more than once.

    12. Build something with your hands. – I could probably measure this in literal tonnage.

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. – Feh. Bush league. No, about three steps below bush league. Do something real.

    14. Join the Peace Corps. – I could do more good wrapping a ribbon around my car antenna.

    15. Disappoint your parents. – It was called high school.

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. – On the beach? Or at Hooters?

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. – I didn’t even know what Nutella was until Allie made me a peanut butter and Nutella sandwich. I thought it was a file sharing service in the early 2000s.

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. – And female strangers comfortable in their private places? Kidding aside, that used to pretty much be my job. Seriously.

    19. Sign up for CrossFit. – Ehh, maybe one day.

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. – Ok. but I doubt I’ll raise the blinds.

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. – Old news.

    22. Be selfish. – Old news.

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. – Not unless Dick Clark is somehow there and a giant ball drops at midnight with fireworks.

  82. jack

    My list

    1-22: Watch PUAs bang the living daylights out of whatever remains of her innocence.

    23: Ponder every possible meaning of the word “Schadenfreude”

    Hey, Gollum called and said you’re looking a little worn…

  83. Farm Boy

    All of these new visitors are probably asking themselves, “How can people think this way”?

    I ask, “How can people not”?

  84. Opus

    There is one thing on her list (which the English always notice about Americans with surprise and it is only right therefore that I reveal this to you), her first item – Get a Passport. All British Citizens and I dare say all citizens of The European Union have passports. I acquired my first when I was seventeen and before that I was with my siblings on my Father’s. The explanation seems to be that America is so large that there really is little reason to venture outside your own shores (and I include those little colonies of yours Hawai’i, Alaska and Puerto Rica).

    Having said that she sounds like my kind of girl, so I hope she comes here. ;)

  85. feministhater

    Eh, big pointed nose and brown vacant eyes with dark bags under eyes for greater effect. This chick is just one cock away from that long thousand stare we all know.

  86. Opus

    Is it another ‘Let’s bash the Indians’ thread – she looks Indian to me and has youth and is not fat but I agree that she looks as if she will be wall-banging within five or ten years.

    It may of course all work out just fine for her, but what strikes me about her list is the utter pointlessness of the items – they never go anywhere. They are merely poses that she adopts for a day or a season.

    Take number 4 – Adopt a Pet, for instance. A pet is, as we say, for life not just for Xmas, and that means caring for and bonding with the animal for the term of its natural life. Rather going to get in the way of all that exotic travel she fancies, or

    Take number 5 – Start a Band – why am I betting she has no experience musically. Most guys playing in bands (and I am not even going to consider the rigorous and persistent training of classical musicians) start young and practise and practise until they are tolerable. Then (as with John and Paul) they don’t start a band but get together with three or four others, and become buddies obsessed with the one thing – their band.

    This woman does not know what she wants or where she is going but we all know what she is going to do.

    Anyone else think she looks a bit like a Dolphin?

  87. earl

    “In my opinion, it is best to avoid these women and avoid commitment to women but at the same time still OK to search for that intimacy with self-knowledge, the Red Pill and patience (even if you never find that intimacy).”

    Agreed.

  88. Elspeth

    I won’t be bothered with going down her list, but a few things stand out. First is that a lot of the things on her list, I did as a married woman. They weren’t diminished, but enhanced by the fact that I had my husband’s backing, including the home based business I ran well until more babies started coming and my husband’s work load demanded that I shift my energies elsewhere.

    The other thing that bugged me was this “disappoint you parents” nonsense. Been there, done that (in spectacular fashion) and the thought of it still pains me when I consider it even though it’s been 21 years. There is nothing honorable or noteworthy in being an ungrateful, disobedient daughter.

    Lastly, @Allamgoosa:

    I also married when I was 22. Our 20th anniversary is in eight weeks and I can say that I have never regretted the fact that I was a young bride. It was the only good decision I made at that time in my life.

  89. Miserman

    I have begun to notice a common thread amongst all these young unions: inexperience. Inexperience with dating, traveling, risks, higher education, career direction, SEX, solitude, religious exploration, etc… and it’s insane that I have already experienced more of the world in the last 22 years than my married peers will ever experience in their life.

    How many men on their death have expressed regret about having it all and yet missing out by not having a family? Feminism sees their folly and want to imitate it instead of learning from it.

  90. Entropy is my god

    Here is a list of things that a man seeking to assuage this woman’s hyper gamy should do before he meets her.
    (for all woman who agree with this list or any like it this is you perfect man)

    1. Join a military or paramilitary organization and go to a foreign country, destroy things and kill people.
    2. Find something you are good at, become the best then lord it over everyone you meet all the time
    3. Screw every loose MILF, whore, slut, and easy girl, married woman, etc you can. Make them do as degrading things as you can think of and record it for posterity.
    4. Kill as many animals’ in as viscous a way as you can. Torture them if possible.
    5. If you are musically talented use it as vehicle to do 2, or 3, or failing that drop it.
    6. If you see a cake, destroy it.
    7. Get tattoos, lots and lots of tattoos. They can’t be ripped off in a fight.
    8. Religion is for fags all of it. Muhammad is a pedo, Buddha is a fat-ass and Bitchy church boys are fags.
    9. Rob a small business.
    10. Shave your head, with a blade not a razor.
    11. Never date less than 3 women, and by date, screw.
    12. Kill something with your bare hands; watch the life leave its eyes.
    13. The internet is for fags
    14. Find someone in the peace corp. Beat them so bad they have life altering injury’s.
    15. Parents are for fags.
    16. Find a man who watches the show girls and punch him in his fat virginal face.
    17. Find a girl who eats Nutella and…. Number 3.
    18. Punch a stranger in the back of the head, it’s not racist.
    19. Take steroids. Walk into a cross fit gym and destroy their WOD.
    20. Find a girl who hangs out naked in front of a window and choke her into unconsciousness while doing number 3.
    21. #13
    22. #3
    23. #3 with Filipinos

  91. CK

    1. Get a passport. (Done at 15 for a mission trip :) )
    2. Find your “thing.” (Does she mean interests/hobbies? I have many “things” in that case)
    3. Make out with a stranger. (Done, regretted.)
    4. Adopt a pet. (multiple times. )
    5. Start a band. (Why? Just to say I did it? Not musical, what’s the big deal…?)
    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too. (I make cakes all the time. For other people, people that I love, in celebration of weddings, birthdays, and sometimes just because. It’s nicer than baking them for myself just so I can stuff my own face.)
    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage. (LOL, nope! See, where I live, I’m the only person I know WITHOUT a tattoo. So I get to be a special snowflake for THAT)
    8. Explore a new religion. (Did this briefly around age 19 and came racing back to Christianity never to leave again)
    9. Start a small business. (My ambitions are not career oriented and I don’t apologize for that)
    10.Cut your hair. (LOL NOPE! I’m almost 35 but my hair is arguably my best feature – long, shiny, extremely thick, and a beautiful color naturally. I smell sabotage :) )
    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face. (did this briefly and it was horrible and I felt nothing but guilt and shame for it. Because I have a conscience.)
    12. Build something with your hands. (I garden, so yes. I’ve designed and planted those gardens and built the flower beds)
    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project. (why? i have so many of my own projects…)
    14. Join the Peace Corps. (No.)
    15. Disappoint your parents. (Did this too many times as a young woman and again, this caused grief, guilt, and shame and I would take it all back if I could. See, I love and respect my parents.)
    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again. (never seen it or heard of it. I have watched the Lord of the RIngs trilogy over and over, does that count?)
    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting. (ugh. I have eaten an entire can of Pringles in one sitting and regretted it for at least 24 hours, does that count? Better idea – work your way up to man-pushups and see how many you can do in one session. It will change your body, work your abs like nothing else, and give you bragging rights to other women)
    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places. (why? I like being friendly and making strangers feel comfortable. I live in the southern US so this is still socially acceptable)
    19. Sign up for CrossFit. (No. I have successfully designed my OWN workouts and seen the results)
    20. Hangout naked in front of a window. (…why…?)
    21. Write your feelings down in a blog. (No. Your feelings are your business. I’m a highly emotional person so I understand those who need to get them ‘out’ sometimes. Get a private journal. Vent away. Close the book and walk away from them. Been doing this since I was 12 years old. No one else needs to read them (via blog) or hear them. Trust me, if you go back to reread them, you may find these entries embarrassing and unreadable and then you can be thankful you didn’t force them on anyone else. Use the journal additionally to record the events of your life, your thoughts about things – you’ll find those entries exceptionally valuable later on).
    22. Be selfish. (really? it’s easy to be selfish. everyone does it. try doing hard things).
    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year. (no.)

    My husband and I have been a couple since I was 22 and I was married at 24. I don’t regret committing at a young age at all.

  92. Farm Boy

    If she really wants a thrill, she should take up vagina knitting.

    It even better, vagina eating, using thr ho-ho’ s that she purchased.

    Show the world. Perform art.

  93. weak stream

    “For the love of all that is good and holy and decent, for the love of your future children, your bank account, and your freaking masculine dignity, I literally beseech you to STOP MARRYING USED-UP, DRIED-OUT, EX-CAROUSEL-RIDING SLUTS!” Some sage advice for the guys out there, for sure. I ran into this myself. The 33 year old ‘scary age’ girls looking to hop on the last train at the last minute. The problem from the guys’ side with this is that the ‘scary age’ girl will then marry a guy she doesn’t even like. A couple of years down the line there’s divorce, child support and another fatherless household. I truly lucked out finding a 23 year old clear thinking girl myself.

  94. dannyfrom504

    Chris-

    didn’t watch the video, but i deal with type of woman all the time. if she’s 2′ish, she’s a flake and has a HUUUUGE sense of entitlement and narcissism. i never chase these women, when i get resistance, i bail.

    BUT, post 25, they become predictable and thirsty. but by then, they’re dick count is beyond what i care to commit to.

  95. Farm Boy

    Ho-ho says,

    Millennials deserve the opportunity to develop ourselves, alone

    First of all, why? What is special about Millennials such that they deserve this?

    In reality, the reins should be drawn in on the Millennials, as they are the worst generation in memory.

  96. Farm Boy

    Ho-ho says,

    who really is winning here? I’m in China. I’m having the best time of my life. I am responsible for my own happiness.

    She is winning just like Charlie Sheen is winning.

    When she is 33, will she feel as responsible?

  97. Cautiously Pessimistic

    In reality, the reins should be drawn in on the Millennials, as they are the worst generation in memory.

    While I agree the reins should be drawn in, I won’t go so far as to call them the worst generation in memory. The boomers are still around, and have done far more damage by virtue of having had more time to do it in.

    The Millenials are not off to a promising start, in large part because of how they were raised. Time will tell whether they’ll overcome their hobbling. My guess is no, because pessimism.

  98. 8to12

    Addressing her list point by point misses the bigger picture: the list as a whole is a meaningless life.

    Gravestones are often inscribed with:

    * Beloved Wife and Mother
    * Beloved Husband and Father
    * a religious reference

    Because, at the end of the day, those are the things that give life meaning. Nobody puts on their tombstone:

    * ate an entire jar of Nutella in one sitting
    * stood in front of the window naked
    * disappointed my parents

    Sure, SOME men can find meaning in life outside of marriage and fatherhood, but I’m guessing that is only 2% of men max. For the other 98% of men their meaning in life revolves around their family. Ask the man who works 80 hours a week what should be written on his tombstone and he’ll say “loving husband and father,” because the knowledge that he is providing for his family is the only thing that makes it possible for him to endure the grind of a job he hates. Sacrificing his life in this way is how he expresses his love for his family (this is the real reason married men make more money than single men–they are motivated to make more money to provide for their family).

    I’ve yet to meet a woman who found life’s meaning in working to provide for her husband and children.

    Can women find life’s meaning outside of family? Sure, but I’m guessing it’s no more than 2% (the same as men). It’s been said that the purpose of feminism was to open the doors for the top/elite 2% of women. Unfortunately, to do that they had to force the other 98% of women out of traditional roles and into the workplace. And for 98% of women work isn’t the glamor life of a high flying professional, it’s grinding away in a corporate cube farm or working at Wal Mart. Careers that in and of themselves are…meaningless.

    The reason “Indian Girl 32″ from the previous post is panicking is she has realized that she is headed down the road to a meaningless life. She looks on her siblings with envy, because their lives have meaning. She is running back to her roots, because it is the surest path she knows to give her life meaning.

    The subject of this post is well on her way to leading a meaningless life.

    I always thought the biblical quote that “women are saved through childbearing” to be curious. But over the years I’ve come to realize that just as men find meaning in life in providing for their families, women find meaning in life in creating and caring for a family.

  99. Miserman

    If you’re going to do something fun, take an empty mayonnaise jar with the label intact, wash it out, fill it full of vanilla pudding, and then eat it public with a spoon. That beats standing naked in front of a window any day.

  100. Alina

    These are the kinds of women who end up marrying losers and needing IVF to conceive children.

    Marrying young is the best thing for women and I am so grateful that I got married when I was 22. Basically the older and skankier a woman is, the harder it will be for her to find a high quality husband she is attracted to. The younger and less ‘used up’ a woman is, the easier it will be for her.

  101. Farm Boy

    Basically the older and skankier a woman is, the harder it will be for her to find a high quality husband she is attracted to.

    Women do not seem to understand that when she uses her last ounce of looks to corral a husband, that this is fundamentally dis-respectful to the man.

    Men want respect.

  102. Alina

    I haven’t done anything on her list besides #6, #10 (which was horrible), and #15 (which actually came about because my parents are more similar to this girl than they are to me), but here’s my own list of thrilling experiences:

    1. Win the heart of a man you love
    2. Feel the kicks of a new child growing inside of you, and be amazed by the miraculous power you have to create life
    3. Look down at the soft chubby face of a new little person who looks exactly like you as he/she falls asleep suckling at your breast
    4. Feel contentment on your deathbed as you are surrounded by children and grandchildren who love you, knowing that you created a legacy that is eternal

    I haven’t done #4 but I hope to one day!

    It is so sad what is happening to white western society. All the bonds of community and family are breaking down and each person is a narcissist who only lives for immediate hedonistic pleasures and trying to impress others with meaningless things.

  103. OffTheCuff

    SSM: “I wish I knew where the traffic was coming from because I’m curious as to what I wrote that got someone’s undies in such a bunch.”

    Set up a google alert for your name, base URL, or both?

  104. Jeremy

    Some day, I want to get married too. I want a floor length dress with a ton of cleavage. I want it to be in Asia, with Ethiopian food, and a filthy scotch selection to calm my nerves when I inevitably start to panic and hyperventilate. But WANT and NEED are two entirely different things. I NEED to develop MY dreams and MYSELF before I can truly be the type of woman you WANT to marry.

    LOL.

    Woman, the ton of cleavage with the willingness and appropriateness towards wearing a dress are what men want to marry. We just want a female by our side, your dreams don’t matter one bit to that process.

    The ignorance, it is stifling.

  105. Farm Boy

    With these women and their soap-opera lives, where could they ever find time for a husband and children?

  106. sunshinemary Post author

    You know, the previous thread was meant to be serious; girls who are taught wrongly will follow that bad advice and regret it. This thread, however, was equal parts anger at this young woman for leading her sisters astray and mocking those who do right, and also just a chance to laugh by making our own goofy 23-item lists. It is necessary just to laugh sometimes – “A time to weep, and a time to laugh” (Eccl 3:4).

    However, I just had an experience that made me even more sorry for women who followed the feminist life script they were taught only to have it not work out so well. My father-in-law has for years referred to my mother-in-law as “my bride,” as in, “My bride and I are going out for lunch.” I’ve always thought it was the sweet sort of affection that exists between older, long-time couples.

    A few minutes ago one of my husband’s ski patrol buddies’ wives called to invite us to a gathering at their home on New Year’s Day, and my husband said to her, “Sounds great, let me just check with my bride.” He’s never called me that before. It made me a little teary-eyed.

    I missed out on living in China on my own and having 18+ lotsa cokcas and being “f-cking awesome”. But I’m 44 and I’m in yoga pants and a sweatshirt and I just got called “my bride.”

    But the sad reality for Vanessa is this: what man will look at her aging, not glammed-up self and call her, “My bride”? She’ll find a desperate man who hasn’t been able to secure regular access to sex who will eventually marry her banged-out self, no doubt. But she is making herself totally unloveable by cultivating a spirit of arrogance and debauchery and I don’t think any man will look at her in her later years and think with satisfaction, “My bride.”

    Unless she changes course now, that is.

  107. Farm Boy

    SSM,

    CL always said it was important for a woman to be married. So yours is one more data point.

    It is odd that women are so eager to divorce…

  108. Farm Boy

    She need to ask herself, “Do I have any attributes about me that would be appealing to a man looking for more than a ‘pump n dump’”?

    Then she needs to ask herself how her position will have changed in ten years time.

  109. Virtue

    Alright, contemplating the filthiness of this nasty person and her nasty personality finally pushed me over the edge. I signed up for a Russian / foreign matrimony website. I can’t stand these filthy whores any more.

  110. Jeremy

    @sunshinemary

    Unless she changes course now, that is.

    No, it’s actually too late for her, but she’s not ready to realize that yet.

    She was fed a line of bullshit that she needs to make something of herself, and somehow “find herself” before she get’s married. She was told that she has to, in some way, “earn” marriage and therefore somehow accomplish something in order to be a worthy bride.

    This is a core perversion of the feminine.

    It is MEN who must EARN their own masculinity. Feminimity is a gift, you women are given it by genetic birthright. Your value as a wife and mother is something you do not have to earn before you are granted such opportunities, they are on-the-job learning processes that your better social acclimation uniquely suits you for.

    This woman, and those like her, were essentially taught that they have to earn their own feminimity in order to be valuable to men. That’s the bullshit. It’s a total perversion of reality, in which women are gifted all that they need to be valuable to men, and it is the men who must earn their place in society and hence women’s esteem. Because she was taught this from an early age, she cannot so easily accept that if she simplifies and just “becomes feminine” and learns to screen men properly that she’ll get everything she wants. She believes that she must qualify herself for womanhood. She believes a lie, and at 22, with that falsehood so thoroughly ingrained that she looks down on her friends who are getting married young, it will be next to impossible to remove the feeling that she has to qualify herself to be attractive to men. She’s based her own ego on the male frame of reference, she has set herself up to NEED to accept herself from a masculine perspective.

    She’s “fucked”, she just doesn’t know it yet.

    I’m not joking when I say it would probably take a therapist for her to reverse course in time.

  111. Jenny

    “It is MEN who must EARN their own masculinity. Feminimity is a gift, you women are given it by genetic birthright. Your value as a wife and mother is something you do not have to earn before you are granted such opportunities, they are on-the-job learning processes that your better social acclimation uniquely suits you for.

    This woman, and those like her, were essentially taught that they have to earn their own feminimity in order to be valuable to men. That’s the bullshit. It’s a total perversion of reality, in which women are gifted all that they need to be valuable to men, and it is the men who must earn their place in society and hence women’s esteem. Because she was taught this from an early age, she cannot so easily accept that if she simplifies and just “becomes feminine” and learns to screen men properly that she’ll get everything she wants.”

    Wow …. Never heard anything like that before. x

  112. Bee

    @Virtue,

    “Alright, contemplating the filthiness of this nasty person and her nasty personality finally pushed me over the edge. I signed up for a Russian / foreign matrimony website.”

    No guarantees anywhere. Some guys get lucky overseas. Some get the shaft from gold diggers:

  113. Bike Bubba

    Sad. Clearly a 20-something version of the 30-something woman we were discussing previously, and I’m guessing is “acting out” because even her Asian friends are starting to reject her for her promiscuity–telling her rivals to sabotage themselves by getting that short hair while she keeps her locks instact, and telling her rivals to more or less trash themselves so she doesn’t look so lewd by comparison.

    I’m wondering if she’s a mixed-race Filipina, judging by her name and #23. Maybe the son of professionals in the U.S.? I’m not Asian myself, but if I’m reading this correctly, she’s got some brutal rebellion going.

  114. Bike Bubba

    BTW, I’m glad I married only at age 27–I wasn’t close to mature enough prior to that–but quite frankly, if I’d been mature enough to marry by age 23, that would have been wonderful. Would have saved me a ton of headaches!

    And it also comes to mind that if you’re working a decent job–even minimum wage with 40 hours/week–you at least used to be able to afford decent insurance. It’s long past time we took a look at our assumptions that you’ve got to have that college degree before getting married, I think.

  115. Jeremy

    @Jenny

    Wow …. Never heard anything like that before. x

    You never wondered why so many cultures had rites of passage for men, but far far far less for women? Women have all they need to contribute significantly to society as long as their womb is functioning, and they can bear/rear/raise kids. Men, OTOH, have to earn their place before any heed is paid them. In order to demonstrate to the community that a man had “earned” his right to be a man, cultures created ceremonies for the purpose.

    Teaching women that they have to earn anything in order to be a valuable wife/mother is a total perversion of what women are. That’s not to say that there’s no learning curve once you’re married, there is, but you do not “earn” marriage as a woman, you instead are gifted all you need to snag a man, but only for a short time.

  116. Rollo Tomassi

    I don’t see what anyone is really upset about with this girl, she sounds exactly like what I’d expect from a 22 year old woman in her SMV peak – you know, the non-existent SMV peak women deny ever exists and extends indefinitely until they’re about 80 or so?

    They make excellent pump & dumps.

    Since everyone’s playing the home game I guess I’ll bite too:

    1. Get a passport.
    If I didn’t I’d never be able to do my job

    2. Find your “thing.”
    I’d rather she find my thing.

    3. Make out with a stranger.
    How fitting for a New Years Eve post.

    4. Adopt a pet.
    How about I adopt 3? http://therationalmale.com/donate/

    5. Start a band.
    I’ve started 4 and been in a total of 9

    6. Make a cake. Make a second cake. Have your cake and eat it too.
    We should continue this conversation with the Beta provider you settle on marrying at 33

    7. Get a tattoo. It’s more permanent than a marriage.
    Funny, Mrs. Tomassi actually bought my tat for a birthday present after we’d been married for 2 years

    8. Explore a new religion.
    I explored a variety as a Unitarian, but I came back to Christ.

    9. Start a small business.
    I preferred to start a big business and my own personal brands.

    10.Cut your hair.
    Had it as long as my ass in my 20′s, crop it short now.

    11. Date two people at once and see how long it takes to blow up in your face.
    Only two? You’re not spinning plates until you’ve got at least 3-4

    12. Build something with your hands.
    Every day.

    13. Accomplish a Pinterest project.
    I only lift copyrighted photos to illustrate my blog posts.

    14. Join the Peace Corps.
    I thought you said “start a business”?

    15. Disappoint your parents.
    Wasn’t hard.

    16. Watch GIRLS, over and over again.
    I’m always watching girls.

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting.
    Sprinkle Splenda into a jar of vaseline and eat it, same consistency, less fat.

    18. Make strangers feel uncomfortable in public places.
    I do that every time I comment here.

    19. Sign up for CrossFit.
    Lift using Max OT training.

    20. Hangout naked in front of a window.
    With who?

    21. Write your feelings down in a blog.
    Uh, heheh,..how about write a book instead?

    22. Be selfish.
    Be self-interested.

    23. Come with me to the Philippines for Chinese New Year.
    Been there already. Going back in 2015. I’m not sure how fond Filipinos are of the Chinese and Japanese though.

  117. Virtue

    Of course. Marriage is always a risk. And I am quite sure that there are mostly gold diggers on the Russian website. But gold diggers are actually more attractive, by far, than travelslut grrls. And, I have a theory that if I limit my search to women who are looking for men within, say, ten years age differential, I will find a better quality of women. I think the real ice queens are the 23 year olds who claim to be interested in 45 year old hubbies. I think being a guy under 30 on that website will put me at the top of the list for all of the girls who’ve filtered down to “guys under 30″ because there can’t be many of us. I think there’s a real arbitrage opportunity here :). And really …. look at what’s out there. How can I possibly do worse than “lotsa cockas” Vanessa?

  118. FuzzieWuzzie

    Virtue, before you commit so much as a nickel to your search for an overseas bride, check out Tony Bochene’s videos on youtube. You might also check out Alex Pinto, FHDating. There are a lot of pitfalls.

  119. Jeremy

    Huh, I had never heard of Max OT training. However, I did naturally fall into something similar in my crazy work-out days. The only twist on it was a pyramidal lift sequence where I would lift to failure on an increasing weight as I progressed through the sets, until a single set turned into a single lift to failure.

  120. Jeremy

    Also, seriously, this girl thinks that:

    17. Eat a jar of Nutella in one sitting.

    Is a way of making yourself worthy of marriage? LOL It’s like we’re talking to babies…

  121. Farm Boy

    It’s like we’re talking to babies…

    Babies with more power than they deserve.

    Who have little wisdom to use it well.

  122. Cautiously Pessimistic

    She was told that she has to, in some way, “earn” marriage and therefore somehow accomplish something in order to be a worthy bride.

    That’s not what I get from her writing. What I see is someone who doesn’t want to marry because she’s not done being awesome. Far from wanting to earn marriage, she doesn’t want to settle for it yet.

  123. Bike Bubba

    Virtue–I mean Mason Kramer–my take is that you might do well to listen to your abba, imma, and bubbe on the topic of finding a wife. You want to avoid gold diggers and assorted ne’er-do-wells? Get to know her family, and let your family watch out for the signs that lust goggles won’t let you see.

    And looking closer at Miss Vanessa’s site, being born in Mexico, she’s likely a Chicana, which means she’ll do well to stop her Narcissus impersonation and listen to what mamacita (sp?) will tell her.

  124. FuzzieWuzzie

    Virtue, another bit of advice: like internet dating, it’s not real until you meet in person. Be prepared to travel there.

  125. Bucho

    Isn’t throwing the term “awesome” arbitrary? All these lists do is inspire group think. And then, there will always other stuff to add to the list as time goes by.

    I think things like watching the sunset in the desert or successfully negotiating a transaction with a ticket scalper is awesome, but not eating a jar of Nutella. But that’s just me….

  126. FuzzieWuzzie

    Virtue, I’m not ready to take the plunge but, I have done a little research. Watch the videos, they’re free. I have heard stories of guys spending thousands without even leaving home.

  127. Opus

    I have now had a look at her site and read her Twitter (where today she seems to be on Speed) and whether the list is serious or not this is a young woman who to tell truth is neither bad looking nor fat but thinks she is awesome. It must be wonderful to be twenty-three and find that whenever you smile and whatever you do people will rush to grant you their approval. It must be like living in a candy-shop. Check out her photos.

    There is however a darker side to this: she has student debts and tweets that it would be so easy to pay them off if only she were a prostitute – now there’s an idea – and clearly one not far from her mind; she’s obviously been practising. She also lets out that she as she travels she works her way through the guys (colour me surprised) though that is not quite how she puts it. She says she is used to be called a whore and a slut, so that is clearly what all this travelling comes down to. Money – money is always a problem but she says that she is and will always be covered (rich parents I am guessing).

    She has a new article for what she proposals in 2014. Being spanked, Kissing (one assumes she means screwing) are prominent – as is cuddling with a respectable man [i.e. rich Beta]. She also has a pet – not a cat – a hedgehog. This woman is selling the family silver convinced that the supply is endless. Oh to be a girl!

    How Jenny Erickson must envy her.

  128. masonkramer

    I’m telling you she’s a travelslut. That’s what they do. They go to Paris and get a eurorail pass and bang their way through the entire continent while living in grubby hostels out of a hemp knapsack. One day a travelslut will find herself banging three hairy Italian libertines in Amsterdam while rolling on ectsasy because she likes their accidents and hasn’t banged any Italians yet* and then the next day she’ll find herself her blowing a Swede in a train depot in Zurich to break the ecstasy hangover. (Hair of the dog and all that).

    * except for that one time…

  129. FuzzieWuzzie

    A few months ago, I think it was Cail who said, with the blue pill it was hard to find a girl. With the red pill, it was hard to find a good girl. Having digested this, I’ve thinking about the difference. It might be simply a matter of time frame. The ones that think short term have to be avoided. They’re thinking like predators and looking at us like prey. As a bear, I don’t like the idea of being prey.
    Now, the ones that are looking for a keeper…

  130. Frank

    Just dropping in to wish SSM and everyone a Happy New Year. As for the girl in the post, lolz. Blind leading the blind, might as well let them alone to their folly.

  131. earl

    While I truly know NAWAL……her…it does make me mad that in a world where I want to have a wife and kids…it’s girls like her filling other girls heads with the idea that lifestyle is lame. Which is why it is becoming harder for guys like me to even find girls that want that lifestyle.

    Basically it is taking away something good from them…and forcing me and other guys to find fewer needles in the haystack. Or just become hunters and get your needs satisfied.

    I don’t know if in the end I would regret not having a family if it comes to that….I’ve done many things I’m proud of and I hope I did the best I could with the talents God gave me…but the fact the option is being taken away from me doesn’t sit well.

  132. Farm Boy

    might as well let them alone to their folly.

    No, not really. We should try to steer them, and others down a better path.

  133. Maeve

    Her “to do” list is so strangely impersonal. There’s nothing there which is really about being a better or happier self. So one does all those things? So what? And then what? Start desperately looking for another 23 meaningless things to do for 2014? 2015? What a waste of one’s life. (not that there’s ever anything wrong with having a passport or baking a cake)

  134. Just Saying

    “advice like this is meant to sabotage other women”

    Yes – and that is why I thank Feminists – they churn them out ready for the picking. Women like the one writing the list are easy prey, enjoyable when they are ripe and sweet, and easily replaceable when they start to become bitter. Misery loves company… Oh, and a tattoo? When I see a woman with a tattoo it’s like she has a neon sign saying, “Ride me like a pony.”. The tramp stamp is a no-brainer, but any tattoo means she thinks she’s “modern” and that means you don’t even need to know her name to bed her – and she doesn’t want to know yours. Then she can say, “I had sex with a man and I never even saw his face or knew his name.” What’s not to like? (Of course you wouldn’t marry that – but bang her? Sure…)

    “I’m in China.”

    Now this I find *very* interesting – I was there last year and an American woman alone in China is basically considered to be a whore. But that is pretty much the impression around the globe when it comes to American women who are traveling – some things they get right. The Chinese women are awesome.. It surprised me how many woman are available – at least to American men. I thought they all wanted to come to the US, but usually they don’t, they just see “Western” men as the ideal man. But Chinese women replaced Russians as my favorite a while ago – Russians are become too Westernized…

    I felt sorry for the Chinese guys – they were pretty much dismissed as men of last resort. So if a man has ties to the West, they want their daughters married off to a Western man. I encourage American men to go to China to see what women CAN be like when they are raised properly. Learn Cantonese – a little goes a long way with the ladies.

    Oh, and learn an accent – I picked up Scottish from when I was there for a couple of months several years ago and will use it sometimes when I’m in LA. American woman melt to a Scottish accent and it’s easy to slip into – just like American women generally are.

  135. earl

    “When I see a woman with a tattoo it’s like she has a neon sign saying, “Ride me like a pony.”

    That’s usually my first disqualifier. Even if it is one of those wrist tats that says “Jesus” or “bible book number:number”…like ole Jenny Erikson has. They are nothing more than cheap attention grabbers when the woman knows her feminine side is gone…or her body is breaking down.

    They should just get a tat that says “whore”. Because that’s what they all mean.

  136. Elspeth

    not that there’s ever anything wrong with having a passport or baking a cake

    Apparently a lot of women aren’t interested in baking cakes. About 9 years ago, I made $300-$400 a week baking cakes (some decorated, some home style) for people who either couldn’t or didn’t want to be so bothered.

    My 19-year-old just got a call from someone who knew someone who tasted her signature cupcakes. They offered to pay her to make 2 dozen for a get together.

    Baking is domesticity 101, and a lot of women can’t manage that. So if this chick stays reasonable attractive and pleasant, she might rope a guy in by baking him a homemade cake since his mother in all likelihood never baked him one.

  137. Farm Boy

    It must be a bit of a shock to her to get this pushback. All of her years, people have been kissing her behind and telling her how awesome she was. In reality, they were just effectively commenting on her looks.

    Anyway, now that people are specifically pointing out her BS, it will be interesting to see how she reacts.

  138. donalgraeme

    Baking is domesticity 101, and a lot of women can’t manage that. So if this chick stays reasonable attractive and pleasant, she might rope a guy in by baking him a homemade cake since his mother in all likelihood never baked him one.

    I would add cooking to that. Cooking is the essential component of domestic skills, and I can’t even begin to tell you how many women utterly fail at that these days. Precious, precious few women my age or younger ever use their kitchens for anything other than microwaving something or mixing drinks. I would wager that I am already a better cook than 90% of my female peers, maybe even 95%. Only those with an ethnic background seem to have any skill there, and even that is vanishing.

  139. donalgraeme

    I don’t know if in the end I would regret not having a family if it comes to that….I’ve done many things I’m proud of and I hope I did the best I could with the talents God gave me…but the fact the option is being taken away from me doesn’t sit well.

    Same here Earl. I found this passage in the Book of Wisdom recently; I can’t say that it makes me happy, but has helped me a bit with finding the strength to go on:

    14 Blessed also is the eunuch whose hands have done no lawless deed,
    and who has not devised wicked things against the Lord;
    for special favor will be shown him for his faithfulness,
    and a place of great delight in the temple of the Lord.
    15 For the fruit of good labors is renowned,
    and the root of understanding does not fail.

    (Wisdom 3:14-15)

  140. Farm Boy

    “When I see a woman with a tattoo it’s like she has a neon sign saying, “Ride me like a pony.”

    Judgemental of tramp stamps, you are.

  141. Anonymous Reader

    Elspeth
    Baking is domesticity 101, and a lot of women can’t manage that. So if this chick stays reasonable attractive and pleasant, she might rope a guy in by baking him a homemade cake since his mother in all likelihood never baked him one.

    Even more so for the young man whose mother baked him a birthday cake every year of his childhood and youth. Unless, of course, he’s decided to learn how to bake his own cake…

    It’s funny, in a way, that the modern word “partner” all too often is applied to someone that isn’t in any kind of partnership at all. Some men in my family ran a business as a partnership – one man ran the production / personnel side, the “inside” man, and the other one was always on the road in sales. Each man brought a different skill to the business, and it ran for about 40 years. Explain this concept to modern people, even modern cube-farm women, and they get it to some extent. Try to extend that concept to marriage – “what do you bring into the partnership?” and a lot of times all one gets is a blank stare. Because, like, what more does she need to bring than her awesome awesomness?

    Years ago on a tight budget I learned to bake bread, because what I could afford to buy in the store was like foam rubber, and what I could afford to bake was far better. It was a pretty easy thing for a lazy man to do on his day off, too. A skill that a 20-something man picked up in a day or two can’t be all that difficult…

  142. Bike Bubba

    Regarding assuming that a young lady is “loose” if she’s traveling in Asia, I’ve seen the same kind of thing be assumed in Europe. Probably doesn’t help that S-girls and cougars like castles and espresso, if you catch my drift.

    And Mason, if indeed consulting your family would be a bad idea, I pity you. I wonder if that’s true, or whether you’ve just got terribly different goals than they do, but if indeed it is true, I pity you.

  143. Denise

    The tattoo comments are a projection on your part. (To be clear, I don’t have any and don’t plan to ever have one). The idea that you see a woman with any tattoo anywhere and jump to sexual thoughts is about your imagination more than reality.

    I see some worthwhile conversation in the Christian part of the ‘sphere, and yet at the same time see just as much covering and deflection of personal sinfulness.

  144. Farm Boy

    Because, like, what more does she need to bring than her awesome awesomness?

    But what of the time when her awesome awesomeness is gone?

  145. Elspeth

    @ Denise:

    It’s actually not that far fetched, the idea that women with tattoos are looser:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/women-tattoos-sleep-man-date-study-article-1.1353842

    I’ll add anecdotally that my husband just got word that a long time friend of his is being divorced by his wife. One of the things she did this past year (before he found out that there was another man waiting in the wings) was run out and get a tattoo after not having one for the 2 decades they’ve been together. It’s cliche it’s so common.

    The fact that there are some *good girls* who make the awful mistake of getting a tattoo while young and foolish doesn’t really change the fact that tattoos are a sign of looseness. Particularly tattoos in sensitive areas. That’s a really bad sign.

  146. earl

    ” (To be clear, I don’t have any and don’t plan to ever have one)”

    Then why are your feathers getting ruffled?

    “The idea that you see a woman with any tattoo anywhere and jump to sexual thoughts is about your imagination more than reality.”

    Shaming males about speaking the truth doesn’t work anymore…so don’t even try. Besides I have yet to see a gal with a tat that looks or acts like a pure virginal girl…and most are usually single mothers or outright whores. That’s called reality.

  147. Just Saying

    @Virtue: I am quite sure that there are mostly gold diggers on the Russian website

    Forget the web-sites, they are a waste of time. Travel there. Russian women are actually very sweet and will NEVER ask you for money, or pretty much anything else. She will work her fingers to the bone to earn what to you are pennies to be able to give you a present when you visit – it’s a custom, the women will give you a gift. (And you’ll want to take her away – but don’t do it. Remember – what destroyed American women will destroy her as well. And you don’t want to do that to any woman.) You won’t find those types on-line – you will find gold-diggers and the ones that give the real Russian women a bad name. Do not judge all Russian women by the scammers.

    Travel! Forget Western Europe – it’s a trash-heap – the women are the same as in the US – good for sex – some of the food is good, careful of your waist-line. Eastern Europe can be fun – but know how to take care of yourself – it can be a bit like the Wild West. But all of Asia is amazing – start in the Philippines, go through Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, and finally China – each is different. Don’t ever guess someone’s national origin – guessing a Korean is Vietnamese (I think) is the worst insult imaginable – they were all invaded over and over throughout their history. And many of the older people still remember when Japan invaded them (the Japanese were real b*stards – not their people, their people are great – their military was a different story) – so tread lightly. As an American you are immune to all of that but don’t be an Ugly American. Be polite – it pays off. China and most of those countries still see Americans as a sign of good fortune, and will credit you with knowledge you probably don’t have when it comes to marketing and business acumen.

    But get out and enjoy life, while you are still young enough to enjoy it. You are a MAN – so you can have your cake and eat it too. You CAN do everything you want, and start a family later, and all of that experience helps you and increases your value. Enjoy being a MAN. The Feminists will be apoplectic – isn’t that reason enough? But at the moment Chinese women are on my list of one of the few women I would actually marry if someone held a gun to my head. So take what I say with a grain of salt – I am enamored with the Chinese culture, and the women… Did I mention the WOMEN?! (Yeah – just got an Happy New Year E-mail from a SYT I met during my travels there.)

    So a HAPPY NEW YEAR to ALL…

  148. hearthie

    Life is too short to read the comment thread… :) But idea: Has anyone noticed that “married” is “game over” in this kind of narrative, not “game begins”? I think that thought pattern might be a source of much of the bad advice out there, not to mention much of the slovenliness that the menfolk around here complain about in their wives.

    Why is a spouse no longer the partner in your adventures? My folks joined the Peace Corps *together*, went to Africa and China *together*… why do you have to do this stuff alone? We used to recognize that marriage was finding someone to yoke with to pull the cart through life…

    People are soooo weird. -sagenod-

  149. deti

    “Please enjoy these 23 things to do instead of getting engaged before you’re 23.”

    Oh, bullshit, Vanessa.

    Since I’m into lists, ladies, might I respectfully suggest these 23 things to do before you’re 23.

    1. Decide whether marriage is important to you. (Hint: It probably is important.)
    2. If marriage is important to you, find one man you love and burn with passion for, and do whatever you have to do to make him yours.
    3. Kill your Facebook account.
    4. Learn to make a really good lasagna.
    5. Throw a party for your husband/betrothed.
    6. Learn the following simple household repairs: Duct taping a dryer duct, removing and replacing light switch and outlet covers; and removing hair/trapped items from a vacuum cleaner.
    7. Select the names you like for your children.
    8. Get to know your current/soon to be in-laws, and learn to get along with them.
    9. Make and stick to a budget.
    10. Learn how to tell a joke, and memorize it so you can tell it over and over. Repeat this every few months. You’ll need new material.
    11. Smile every day.
    12. Watch Gone With the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, Vertigo, North by Northwest, Lawrence of Arabia, and Unforgiven.
    13. Learn how to clean, load and shoot a .22 rifle; a shotgun; and an automatic pistol.
    14. Qualify for concealed carry.
    15. Buy and wear a really nice dress.
    16. Learn how to give a decent deep tissue massage (not rubbing circles on his back).
    17. Travel together with your husband/betrothed to someplace in the United States you both want to go, before you have any children.
    18. Get rid of any piercings you have other than those in your earlobes.
    19. Grow some of your own food. I recommend tomatoes.
    20. Learn basic car maintenance: enough to check fluids and tire pressure, and follow a basic car maintenance schedule.
    21. Learn to take photos other than with your cell phone camera and other than selfies.
    22. Learn and stick to the art of letter-writing.
    23. Read and study a basic etiquette text. Emily Post or Miss Manners will do.

  150. Rollo Tomassi

    Not for nothing, but this girl doesn’t bump the needle above an HB 7 on the Tomassi scale. And that’s being generous since of course she doesn’t post a full body shot and gives us the ubiquitous down-slant selfie.

    Ironically 2014 will be the Chinese year of the horse. I’ll be turning a nice profit on several Asian events in Vegas during Chinese New Year.

  151. Jeremy

    @Denise

    The idea that you see a woman with any tattoo anywhere and jump to sexual thoughts is about your imagination more than reality.

    Those who would deliberately mark on something permanently cannot, by definition, have much respect for that thing as it stands. Tatoos are a blatant symbol that you don’t fully like your own body as it is, which itself is a very strong indicator to having easily removed panties.

  152. Anonymous Reader

    Denise
    The tattoo comments are a projection on your part. (To be clear, I don’t have any and don’t plan to ever have one). The idea that you see a woman with any tattoo anywhere and jump to sexual thoughts is about your imagination more than reality.

    How cute. A mound rebuilder. Tell me, Denise, just as an idle question: suppose you were at the beach, and you saw a 20 year old woman in a bikini, with a tattoo on her lower back just barely peeking out from the cover of her panty? Would that convey any sort of message to you, or would it just be a personal decoration and expression?

    Reading your foolish statement, I’m reminded of a young church going woman who went carousel-riding. Her parents were stunned, that their good girl could become promiscuous. . I was not, because I’d seen her jogging one day in the park and accidentally got a glimpse of the then-new tattoo peeking out of her sweatsuit…

  153. Opus

    I have just read a bit more, and this woman is (if I take her at face value) a basket case. Perhaps it is normal in Boston to have a Therapist; she had – and not yet twenty-three. Turns out she is a TEFL teacher; I should have guessed – that will hardly pay off the college debt. This isn’t traveling, its work, and if she is normal she will begin to make a life for herself in China and with all that goes with that. The words TEFL and SLUT are largely interchangeable; that was my previous experience. My 2014 prediction for her, is, that she will fall hopelessly in love with an Alpha who drops her (I see myself in that role) and then throws herself at a Beta guy keen to have a good looking woman – any woman. Followed by single motherdom.

    It must be great being a woman – and what is best you can even enjoy being miserable whilst you are sluting it up.

  154. Pingback: Spot the Differences | On the Rock

  155. Farm Boy

    So while she is having fun in her 20′s, she is naturally expecting her future husband to be building a career.

    Not profound, but just a reminder.

  156. Sir_Chancealot

    SSM, always remember: You are writing to the lurkers, not the regular (or irregular) posters. We are like the drunks over in the corner, having a good-ole time talking amongst ourselves.

    There are, what, 100 semi and regular posters? Maybe? Subtract that number from the daily hits your blog gets, and you’ll get an idea of what I mean.

    “You know you are over the target when you start taking flak”.

    Sometimes, I feel sorry for these kind of girls. But when you tell them what they are doing, most of them continue doing it anyway. Times, they are a-changing for women. I give it 10 years, at most.

    Remember, 10 years ago (2003), the “MRA/Manosphere/PUA/Game was a very tiny, very unheard of segment on the internet. Now, they are talking about it on television and news shows. It’s going to suck (see what i did there?) to be a 32 year old former slut in 2020.

    I’m off for Pizza, Beer, and Tobacco. You all have a wonderful New Years Evening.

  157. Farm Boy

    Has the concept of “investing in your husband” ever occurred to modern women?

    Probably not, as their “women’s studies” degrees show that they can’t even invest in themselves properly.

  158. Bike Bubba

    I like Deti’s list from a bit back, except I’ve got to note that there is a passage in Isaiah where it may refer to a nose ring. The Hebrew is a touch ambiguous, but it could be. So not ALL piercings save the ears.

    (my wife and daughters don’t have nose rings, but quite frankly, if you’ve got to have weird piercings, do it so my eyes are drawn to your face, if you catch my drift)

    Regarding tattoos, there are two reasons they’re linked to promiscuity. First, you have to be willing to have a complete stranger touch you for a few hours to get it. Second, the whole purpose is to draw the eyes to that area of the body. Either one will correlate pretty well to sleeping around, and that’s why (Elspeth’s link) men rightly see it as being….equivalent to being willing to sleep around.

  159. Opus

    I get it (I think) what she is really saying – the unspoken sub-text – is not that she is having the time of her life (though of course she is or might be) but that she either cannot or will not or cannot keep a man who would be invested in her. Hence the bravura posturing. You only need to go on like that when you have no idea what you want or even if you do what you might do to go out and get it. Now I said she looked Indian but maybe she is Mexican, but she seems to have been up in Boston and I am guessing that no self-respecting white boy is likely to have her on his list of marriageable women. Same problem as previous thread – young woman adopting western liberal permissive ways but coming from a more traditional family. She is as Rollo Tomassi says a 7 (that’s good in one sense) but it means that she will get a lot of attention but only for P and D and given her open personality plenty of that will be on offer – but nothing else. Were she really good looking she could play hard to get; were she plain she would have to be realistic, but she is in the middle where male attention, anonymous Urban Living and male invented technology has given her the opportunity to live like an Up-Market Eighteenth Century Courtesan – and she has not noticed that that is a very privileged but short time arrangement.

    Sadly of course her posturing has split the ladies: half are envious and the other half justifying their marrying. Promiscuity comes at a price, as do all sensual pursuits.

  160. FuzzieWuzzie

    Denise has to be a feminist. Why else would she chime in to defend women who make themselves ugly. Skin is nice. Why clutter it up with bad art?

  161. Denise

    @Anonymous Reader– You know, it’s easy to criticize people behind a veneer of anonymity. It generally gives people courage they would not otherwise have. Idle questions aren’t worth answering. If you have a serious question, perhaps you’d like that ask that one. I will point out however, as you quoted me, that I said “any tattoo anywhere”, not simply a “tramp stamp.” You either misread or misunderstood. Furthermore, you (and others it seems) overlooked the specific statement made by Farm Boy, which was not simply about tattoos located in certain places, but that he had an explicit sexual thought about the woman regardless of the tattoo or its location. Yes, that is projection on his part rather than a cerebral judgment about her likely character.

    @Elspeth. I don’t dispute what you’re saying. Tattoos are more a part of certain sub-cultures than others. Conservative Christians, for instance, generally believe they are wrong and don’t get them. Punk/Grunge cultures with libertarian sexual views go crazy for them. Thus, of course women without tattoos would be more likely to be chaste and those with more likely not to be. It’s correlation.

  162. Farm Boy

    You know, it’s easy to criticize people behind a veneer of anonymity.

    Perhaps. But the real benefit of anonymity is that one is not required to be politically correct.

  163. Farm Boy

    Yes, that is projection on his part rather than a cerebral judgment about her likely character.

    If by “projection”, you mean “using Bayesian inference”, then I am guilty.

  164. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, your observations are usually astute, even handed, and blessedly brief. It’s rare that someone takes issue with you. Could your detractor be as I stated in my comment at 6:25pm?

  165. Jeremy

    @Rollo Tomassi

    Too good not to share:
    http://cbmw.org/men/manhood/were-just-talking/

    Unfortunately for people of faith, this should not be surprising. Church organizations and specifically their ability to create new doctrine through a kind of enforced acceptance of things that are not biblical but may sound christ-like, organized religion is just about the perfect soil on which the feminine imperative could ever take root. That link is a great example of exactly what I’m talking about. In a truly FI-controlled doctrine structure the mating process would naturally become drawn out, giving the woman as many opportunities for plausible deniability and opportunities to reject a man. This would be justified with a requirement that men behave in an almost monk-like fashion, after christ (who was, by story, intentionally celibate). I’m not that big on mating history of humanity, but I would bet bitcoins that FI+organized religion is solely responsible for this thing we traditionally call “courtship.”

  166. Farm Boy

    Could your detractor be as I stated in my comment at 6:25pm?

    So you are suggesting that she is a feminist, and as such, is impervious to facts and logic.

  167. Jeremy

    @ Denise

    Furthermore, you (and others it seems) overlooked the specific statement made by Farm Boy, which was not simply about tattoos located in certain places, but that he had an explicit sexual thought about the woman regardless of the tattoo or its location. Yes, that is projection on his part rather than a cerebral judgment about her likely character.

    Scrolling back through the comments, I see no such comment by Farm Boy, he only replied after your mound-rebuilding. Instead, I find a comment by Just Saying:

    Yes – and that is why I thank Feminists – they churn them out ready for the picking. Women like the one writing the list are easy prey, enjoyable when they are ripe and sweet, and easily replaceable when they start to become bitter. Misery loves company… Oh, and a tattoo? When I see a woman with a tattoo it’s like she has a neon sign saying, “Ride me like a pony.”. The tramp stamp is a no-brainer, but any tattoo means she thinks she’s “modern” and that means you don’t even need to know her name to bed her – and she doesn’t want to know yours. Then she can say, “I had sex with a man and I never even saw his face or knew his name.” What’s not to like? (Of course you wouldn’t marry that – but bang her? Sure…)

    So yes, his “sexual thoughts” were not projection of desire or fantasy, they were a reflection of women with tat’s being looser. A fact that published research has born out to have some fact to it. I think your comments are quite transparently just a knee-jerk defense of that which needs no defense. But of course, since you never named exactly who you were replying to, your plausible deniability remains intact. It’s easy to argue when you’re just arguing against the wall, isn’t it?

  168. Anonymous Reader

    Denise
    @Anonymous Reader– You know, it’s easy to criticize people behind a veneer of anonymity. It generally gives people courage they would not otherwise have. Idle questions aren’t worth answering. If you have a serious question, perhaps you’d like that ask that one.

    Thanks so much, “Denise”, but I generally don’t seek wisdom from concern trolls.

    I will point out however, as you quoted me, that I said “any tattoo anywhere”, not simply a “tramp stamp.” You either misread or misunderstood.

    I understood. You seek to rebuild the mound [reading a site prior to posting is a good idea, you might try it] rather than face the reality in question. I see that you do at least acknowledge some sort of message, or advertising, is sent by a young woman with a tattoo on her tailbone. Yet you remain defensive about ink. So…what kind of tattoo do you have, hmm?

    Furthermore, you (and others it seems) overlooked the specific statement made by Farm Boy, which was not simply about tattoos located in certain places, but that he had an explicit sexual thought about the woman regardless of the tattoo or its location.

    Farm Boy reacts to the advertising as he is supposed to. Why does that bother you?

    Yes, that is projection on his part rather than a cerebral judgment about her likely character.

    Yeah, sure, just as deciding to buy a soft drink after seeing an advertising billboard is “projection”. In the modern, post 1970 world, tattoos on women send a clear message. Unless they are pirates, of course…

  169. Anonymous Reader

    Jeremy
    Church organizations and specifically their ability to create new doctrine through a kind of enforced acceptance of things that are not biblical but may sound christ-like, organized religion is just about the perfect soil on which the feminine imperative could ever take root

    Church of Niceness, in short.

  170. Farm Boy

    organized religion is just about the perfect soil on which the feminine imperative could ever take root

    Worthy of a post, I would think

  171. FuzzieWuzzie

    There has been a lot of generalized criticixm of women on this thread. Maybe something can be offered that would be constructive and simple. One of the big laments that can be drawn from the PUA sites is that there are too few women that know how to be good company. It’s easy enough. Find common interests, engage in conversation, give respectful attention by ignoring the smartphone. Easy peesy.

  172. Novaseeker

    Life is too short to read the comment thread… :) But idea: Has anyone noticed that “married” is “game over” in this kind of narrative, not “game begins”? I think that thought pattern might be a source of much of the bad advice out there, not to mention much of the slovenliness that the menfolk around here complain about in their wives.

    Why is a spouse no longer the partner in your adventures? My folks joined the Peace Corps *together*, went to Africa and China *together*… why do you have to do this stuff alone? We used to recognize that marriage was finding someone to yoke with to pull the cart through life…

    People are soooo weird. -sagenod-

    The reason is that people generally are aware that marriage requires (1) responsibility (to something bigger than yourself — i.e., more than being responsible for your own self) and (2) compromise, to some degree, with someone else. They would rather delay both, lengthening the time that they are only responsible for themselves, and do not have to compromise with anyone, but can do what they want, when they want, and how they want, taking into account consequences they are willing to bear without consulting or even taking into consideration anyone else. They want to delay the “limitations” of marriage, in other words, on their own personal freedom.

    Seen in this way, it makes “sense” — i.e., people want to “experience x, y and z before I need to take into account another person in determining whether to experience x, y or z”. It’s about preserving maximal freedom of personal action for as long as possible, and delaying the “ties” of marriage for as long as possible. I don’t think it’s that people think that life ends when you marry, but they do think that a certain *kind* of life ends when you marry, and they’re not wrong. The unfortunate thing is how much they crave that personal freedom above all else.

  173. The Navy Corpsman

    “Because at the age of 22, I have no idea who I am, what I’m doing, and who I’ll be doing it with for the next year… let alone for the rest of my life.”

    This is almost as far as I read. If you do not know who you are, what you’re doing, or who you’re with, rethink your decision to give personal advice on the internet, where people who know who they are, what they’re doing, and who they are with, can read it, and mock it. Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to type it out where Google can recover it for the next 100 years, proving that you’re going to be clueless in 2045, as well.

    Now, for the rest of what I read:

    “And that’s awesome.”

    Listen, kid (and yes, compared to me, you’re a kid, I got a grandson closer to your age than he is to birth) you’ve got to learn one thing. Awesome is relative.

    Self-confidence is a very good thing, Self-reliance is even better. Selfish is what children are.
    Self-control is a very good thing, Self-examination even better. Self-important is what children are.
    Self-esteem is a very good thing, Self-worth is even better. Self-deceptive is what children are.
    Self-determination is a very good thing, Self-awareness is even better. Self-serving is what children are.

    I’ve skimmed the rest of the post, and a lot of the comments, and I am going to say something that will probably be somewhat unpopular.

    This 22 year old woman refusing to get married, is ok in my book. Because immature, unaware, clueless individuals should not inflict themselves upon a spouse who will end up paying the price. Don’t even bring children into this world, hell, I made huge mistakes raising my boys… but at least I knew who I was, what I was doing, who I was doing it with, and also, where I was going, what my goals were, and I wasn’t alone while I made all these determinations.

    Don’t get me wrong… I was a dumbass at 22 years old. Add some decades, and you’ll see that, too. Make mistakes, but learn from them. Repeating: LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES. And you’re right, this is not your parents’ generation. Brilliant observation. Yet those same people go to work everyday, and earn the right to be respected by you, because they raised you the best that they could. The only difference between your generation and my grandfathers generation, is the faces of the people. And the wisdom they listened to, willingly and with an open mind. Clearly, Vanessa Elizabeth, you’re not willing to listen, nor do you have an open mind.

    So, I commend you. Do not get married. Travel the world, Eat Pray Love. Write a bestseller, achieve all your goals (as soon as you figure out what they are) and be happy. I am genuinely glad that this is your decision.

    You’re way too awesome to need a man, marriage or children. You must be the one everybody is waiting for, and I cannot wait to see how awesome you are tomorrow.

    The Navy Corpsman

    P.S. Get over your Self.

  174. Winter

    Wow. Really horrible “advice” that can only lead to heartache…if you don’t want to get married at 18, fine, finish your school or what-have-you, but please don’t make horrible decisions you can never take back. And sweetheart, Nutella, disappointing your parents, sleeping around, and binge-watching “Girls” isn’t going to help you develop into a strong and accomplished and fabulous woman.

  175. Winter

    And Hearthie, this:

    Why is a spouse no longer the partner in your adventures? My folks joined the Peace Corps *together*, went to Africa and China *together*… why do you have to do this stuff alone? We used to recognize that marriage was finding someone to yoke with to pull the cart through life…

    is totally awesome. Marriage was the beginning of my grandest adventures!

  176. earl

    “So…what kind of tattoo do you have, hmm?”

    Well she SAID she doesn’t have one and doesn’t want one. However based on her tone and reaction to the said statements about what tats mean…you’d think she does have one or wants one.

    Women don’t squawk unless the truth is uttered and is against what they think…otherwise they stay silent.

  177. Bee

    “14. Join the Peace Corps.”

    The religion of the NY City – Washington DC elites is Democracy. They believe spreading Democracy will solve the world’s problems. The Peace Corp is a missionary organization for the religion of Democracy.

    Why would I want to dedicate years of my life to such a cause?

  178. Farm Boy

    The religion of the NY City – Washington DC elites is Democracy.

    No it isn’t. Democracy is just the cover for statism; where the state controls all, and the elites control the state

  179. Farm Boy

    Women don’t squawk unless the truth is uttered and is against what they think…otherwise they stay silent.

    I dunno. Seems that modern women like to talk. And text. And do Facebook

  180. Farm Boy

    do not have to compromise with anyone, but can do what they want, when they want, and how they want, taking into account consequences they are willing to bear without consulting or even taking into consideration anyone else. They want to delay the “limitations” of marriage, in other words, on their own personal freedom.

    This only works when they look good. Then the “limitations” of marriage start looking good.

  181. Farm Boy

    Talking and squawking are two different things.

    I suppose that you are right. Cell phone service providers have unlimited “talk plans”, not unlimited “squawk plans”

  182. Jenny

    I wanted a tattoo when I was 18! My parents didn’t mind but I decided that I would wait a year to see if I still wanted one …. a year later and I had totally gone off the idea. I guess there was an appeal because it was sort of the “in” thing to do among my peers. I can’t believe that I ever really considered it now – at that age I couldn’t even decide what colour I wanted to paint my nails!

    I wonder how many young women get tattoos and then regret them. x

  183. feeriker

    * She looks good*

    For the moment (and “good” compared to WHAT?). It never ceases to amaze how the obviously fleeting and transient nature of “looks” is so easily overcome by the hamster.

    She is sassy with moxie (the no fat version)

    A trait attractive only to a very tiny minority of men – and even then only when deployed judiciously and sparingly.

  184. Farm Boy

    She is sassy with moxie (the no fat version)

    It works for parties and in the short term in general.

    But it was mostly said in a tongue in cheek manner.

  185. Farm Boy

    Fuzzie,

    Does WF Price have any boys? I wonder how well they can see what is truly happening. And what impact it might have on them as adults.

  186. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, my memory is a little vague but, I think he has two sons. What he is going through is an unmitigatede destructive use of the law.
    I keep thinking about Hannibal coming to grief after Cannae. After that defeat, the Romans chose not to offer battle and Hannibal’s army withered.

  187. earl

    “So much for hopes of marriage and family formation when the downside can lead to this.”

    Everything hinges on her…and whether she wants to stay with you or go to a corrupt justice system at any time. I’d be praying like crazy that God does everything to keep the family together and doing all that I can to be the leader of the household.

  188. Farm Boy

    Fuzzie,

    Sometimes women who frivorce sometimes get their comeuppance. My brother-in-law ten years ago was being divorced. Naturally, she figured that things would go according to the preset script, with her getting the kids and house, and him paying through the nose.

    Then at the suggestion of his lawyer, he decided to go for the custody of the kids. She was shocked. In the courtroom, she lost it. Naturally the court tried it’s best to accommodate her, but her acting like a Looney Tune sabotaged things. In the end, she lost custody of the kids because her nuttiness.

    Then, for years, she wasted her half of the marital assets challenging him in court. Acting more and more vengeful and nutty always did her harm. All she had to do was act normally, and she would have gotten what she wanted. Then she no longer had money for lawyers, and the fun really began. Eventually, the kids became adults and are now allowed to totally ignore their mom.

  189. Pingback: This says it well | Julian O'Dea

  190. JDG

    I wonder how many young women get tattoos and then regret them.

    Probably not very many. After the deed is done there is always the hamster to make it alright.

    I wonder how many have the good sense that you displayed in waiting to see if you still wanted one later. No hamster needed for that route.

  191. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, about your brother-in-law, for a woman to lose custody, she would have to demonstrate complete unfitness, i.e. Looney Tines in the courtroom. Benefit to the kids’ welfare.
    Again my symapathies to you on your marriage. There’s no way she’ll be able to improve on you.

  192. The Navy Corpsman

    “This is the WORST BLOG I have ever seen. Self-righteous and closed-minded.”

    Mrs. SSM, please allow me to respond.

    Cindy, your declarative statement is presumptive valid on it’s face, but you really screwed it up by following with a hypocritical sentence that completely fails, logically and emotionally. One cannot declare an absolute assertion without evidence, yet your evidence only points to your own self-righteousness and closed mind.

    Example:

    The Navy Corpsman is a mean, old man. I hate unkind senior citizens.

    Logically nonsensical. Emotionally stunted, mentally deficient and to top it off, redundant.

    Of course, I AM a mean old man. By declaring that I am, one has to admit that they were against mean old men, which is almost exactly what is in the second sentence. The only thing that these statements lack, that yours do not, is that yours is far more inclusive of anyone you disagree with, and less ambiguous in revealing your own personal emotional prejudice.

    You see, Cindy, on the internet we have no right of free speech, no guarantee that everyone is going to be your best friend forever. Most particularly, not on someone else’s blog. On your blog, or your pal Vanessa Elizabeth’s blog, your rights are paramount, your censorship, or Vanessa’s, is perfectly fine. I must pause here to commend Vanessa for leaving up nearly all comments, with a small ding for actually saying she was going to censor negative commentary.

    ” Vanessa Elizabeth December 30, 2013 at 6:28 pm · ·

    If you wish to start a discussion, write your own blog. You’ve already had your say. Anything beyond this point will not be published.”

    Despite this, she clearly left the majority of further negative comments, and apparently understands that her satire/comedy was not taken well. I also commend her for recognizing that she needs to clarify her original thoughts. I did not read all 20 pages of comments, nor did I read all 200+ comments here. But, Cindy, notice what Vanessa DID say, in the quote above:

    “… write your own blog.”

    Another commendation for noting that she has no responsibility to commenters to provide them with a forum to disagree, but they do have a right to comment on their own blogs.

    Which is exactly what happened, here. The fact that you disagree with these comments, this blog post, is irrelevant and immaterial. Get your own blog, and slam everyone who posted here, including me. I promise to cry about it.

    Vanessa’s best choice at this point, is to admit that she was overly vague about her assertions, provided nearly no evidence to support her argument, and immensely immature in her assumptions. Since it has been said that she intends to clarify herself, I await such elucidations. Cindy, your best choice at this point is to ignore everything on the internet that you do not like.

    The Navy Corpsman

  193. Farm Boy

    This is the WORST BLOG I have ever seen. Self-righteous and closed-minded.

    I would dare say that your problem with this blog is that it is open-minded.

    Open-minded enough to see reality as it really is.

  194. FuzzieWuzzie

    All that can be said about Cindy is, wait till she runs across Return of Kings. Katie bar the door!

  195. JDG

    This is the WORST BLOG I have ever seen. Self-righteous and closed-minded

    Another way to look at it is: What’s wrong with being closed minded? Do you leave your front door or your mouth open so that any passing thing can wander in? No, one should be selective about what one lets into one’s home or mouth. So why is the mind any different?

    As far as being self-righteous goes:

    self-right·eous
    1. Piously sure of one’s own righteousness; moralistic.
    2. Exhibiting pious self-assurance:

    Maybe I’m wrong here, but I don’t see anyone claiming to be without faults or problems. I do see a lot of self-assurance, but not pious self-assurance. Perhaps you are confusing the willingness of others with differing opinions than yours to point out injustices and foolishness with self-righteous.

  196. FuzzieWuzzie

    About Cindy, while she may be a drive-by, it seems that she is of the mind that no one can criticize modern women for anything. Not even other women for dispensing bad advice.
    In the past, it did fall to older and wiser women to rein in the antics of the younger ones. This was a good thing as it maintained the reputation of all women.

  197. JDG

    @FuzzieWuzzie
    Yep!

    Titus 2:
    3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

  198. Farm Boy

    Looney Tunes in the courtroom.

    Yes, this was it. It takes a whole lot to tilt the justice system away from a woman, but she managed to do it. We may never see such a sight again.

  199. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, now that you have confirmed my suspicions, I have to admit that I was tempted to link a video of Roger Rabbit for “comparison”.

    Titus 2 is counter to Strong Independent Woman. Not only do men get portrayed as doofusses in the main stream but, this is applicable to both paqrents and authority in general when kids are involved. The MSM is undercutting sources of wisdom.

  200. Legion

    Cindy January 1, 2014 at 5:18 pm
    “This is the WORST BLOG I have ever seen. Self-righteous and closed-minded.”

    Denise is not going to like that.

    lolololololololololololololololololol

  201. Chris

    Cindy would have conniptions at Julians or my place. She would try to ban Return of Kings. Dalrock would make her head explode.

    Come on over, kiddo. I even have rules on how to comment.

  202. FuzzieWuzzie

    Since Farm Boy has mentioned Moo U and this thread has gone qiet, I’ll Post something cheerful and off topic.

  203. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy your “favorite” Jezebel writer, Lindy West, has written about how she can’t fit into standard airline seats anymore. There is a natural limit to fat acceptance.

  204. Cautiously Pessimistic

    “So…what kind of tattoo do you have, hmm?”

    Well she SAID she doesn’t have one and doesn’t want one. However based on her tone and reaction to the said statements about what tats mean…you’d think she does have one or wants one.

    Or her daughter has one, and she doesn’t want to face up to what that means.

  205. Farm Boy

    Maybe, Vanessa should add this to her list

    24. Get so fat that you cannot fit into an airplane seat. Take your clothes off to protest the discrimination.

  206. Farm Boy

    Lindy West asserts,

    Let’s clarify a few things! I’m actually pretty much obsessed with etiquette and politeness

    Fuck Yeah!

  207. Jenny

    I wish more women would step into the Titus 2 role – I don’t have a great deal of church experience but the older women seem to keep themselves to themselves and there isn’t that gentle guidance and correction of the younger women.

    Personally it would be helpful, as I do not have a Christian family, because there are a lot of questions that an older women would probably be able to give advice on. As wonderful as the Bible is sometimes translating it in to real life situations is tricky. x

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  209. Ester

    Hello Ms. SSM…. do you have an email address that I can contact you on? Also @Jenny, I completely agree with your Titus 2 comment.

  210. Ester

    Hello again Ms. SSM…. I’d rather have sent you this message privately, but I didn’t get a response from you in my previous comment. Respectfully speaking as a Christian, I was going to ask if you or any other women here have tried to reach out to Vanessa. This is the first time I’ve heard of her, but I was saddened & disgusted by some of the comments here. It seems like this young woman’ s poor decisions are being used as entertainment. Wasn’t she created in the image of God just like the rest of us? She obviously needs some guidance & does not realize what she is doing to her life & her reputation. I work with middle school girls who have the same thoughts as Vanessa. A lot of them don’t have father figures & have mothers who do not set good examples. I continuously pray for them, speak with them & give hugs whenever possible. They need that & it breaks my heart to see a girl/woman in this light. She is still precious in the sight of the Lord.

  211. Farm Boy

    Do you feel righteous by tearing apart some 23-year-old’s vapid Thought Catalogue musings?

    Not righteous. There is the larger picture. Women are making a mess of their lives by following such advice. It is important to clarify where such advice leads.

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  213. Virtue

    @ Ester

    Most of the people commenting here have been fighting the good fight for many years. They have watched as non-judgemental, nicety-nice “reaching out” has comprehensively failed as a strategy for norming society. They are worn out veterans of a hard fight and like all veterans they enjoy gallows humor. Just keep reaching out in your nice way and watching society fall all around you. These people are the real heroes, doing what works to save who they can. Not you. Your selfish insistence on looking adopting the moral high ground that _doesn’t work_ is to blame for the decay of our society. Get over yourself.

    And by the way, Vanessa would _eat you alive_.

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  215. Hiscross

    I would rather have Vanessa as a friend than most the people who posted here and all of my female relatives who were married at 19. I like my former sister-in-law who probably did half of the things on Vanessa’s list. She is good company and fun to talk to. I am sorry that my brother was not a better man. He lost a treasure.

    My home schooling SAHM sister-in-law is a competitive, self righteous, insecure, narrow minded bore. When SIL complained about me to her friends, they pointed out to her that only wishes to talk about marriage, homemaking, and kids and that I was a person who was more aware of what went on in the world. She is virtuous but most of our family do not like her as much as the ex-sinful sister-in-law who is a babe in Christ. She has suffered and is kind and gentle. She bothered to get an education and can survive without my brother.The virtuous bore will be on welfare if my brother dies.

    I am almost 50 and very glad that I rejected marriage and children at a young age. I used to kneel on my threshold when I came home from work and thank God that I did NOT have a boyfriend nor husband and children. I hope Vanessa will be equally happy as she ages.

    .

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  217. Lisa Twaronite

    I loved her list! Most of the items on it look really fun. I gave the article to my 17-year old daughter to read.

  218. JDG

    Hiscross
    January 10, 2014 at 12:24 am

    I think you are lying. I believe that most of the time you aren’t happy at all. Your just basking in your indignation against all things that don’t fit into your solipsistic world view, and you mistake that for happiness (which in itself is fleeting).

    I think that if you went into the kitchen and started making sammiches, you might feel a little humility, which could in turn teach you to appreciate some of the finer things in life (commitment, honor, integrity, self sacrifice, self discipline, ).

    Who knows, it could be character building and one day you won’t have to wake up and realize that you wasted your whole life pursuing self gratification.

  219. JDG

    I loved her list! Most of the items on it look really fun. I gave the article to my 17-year old daughter to read.

    Tragically your 17-year old daughter is most likely to be even more amoral than you and may have experienced everything on the list before you gave it to her.

  220. Pingback: Girls conspiring to turn other girls into sluts: a good reason not to send your daughters away to college. | Sunshine Mary

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