Gratitude: happiness doubled by wonder.

I would maintain that thanks are the highest form of thought; and that gratitude is happiness doubled by wonder.  ~G.K. Chesterton

If gratitude is happiness, then given the unhappiness exhibited by most feminists, what does that tell us about the state of their hearts?

On a previous thread, I remarked:

It’s interesting to me that so far, none of the men have objected to the idea that men have obligations within marriage.

My husband addressed my comment later in the thread:

I think that part of the reason is because men don’t consider “obligations” (in marriage) to be work. We (men) perform these “obligations” out of a passionate love. We take great pride in our abilities to give our wife and children the best that we can give. We don’t think of these “obligations” as work, they are a natural response to love. To a man it would feel weird and wrong to not do these things. I WANT my family to have a roof over their heads and food on the table and I will happily give my hard labor for this. I want my family to be safe and I will HAPPILY lay down my life to defend them.

Feminist Hater added:

And this is the issue though, when I look at your family and how they connect over your father’s stroke and recovery, it shows a deep love for his life and all he has given you. That is what men want in exchange for our labour and our sacrifices. It’s not the sacrifices that make us mad, it’s the mere fact that we want our sacrifices to mean something and to made for the right people, not those that would throw our sacrifices back in our faces.

What does it look like to have your sacrifices thrown back in your face?  On an individual level, it looks like Jenny Erikson, who frivorced her husband and tore their family apart because she wasn’t haaaaappy.  Everything her husband had worked for in order to build a home and family with her…just gone for no reason.

But what does it look like on a society-wide scale to have your sacrifices thrown back in your face?  Stephanie Coontz, feminist researcher and author, gives us the perfect example in her recent New York Times piece, How Can We Help Men? By Helping Women, from which I’ve extracted the main points (emphasis mine):

This week Maria Shriver brings together a star-studded cast of celebrities, from Hillary Rodham Clinton to Beyoncé, to call attention to the economic plight of American women and demand that women’s needs be put “at the center of policy making.”

Social and economic policies constructed around the male breadwinner model have always disadvantaged women. But today they are dragging down millions of men as well. Paradoxically, putting gender equity issues at the center of social planning would now be in the interests of most men.

This was not so evident 40 or 50 years ago, when the struggle for gender equity threatened many male entitlements. In those days, men of every skill and income level had preferential access to jobs that provided security, benefits and rising wages.

Today, however… [m]illions of men face working conditions that traditionally characterized women’s lives: low wages, minimal benefits, part-time or temporary jobs, and periods of joblessness. Poverty is becoming defeminized because the working conditions of many men are becoming more feminized.

Whether they realize it or not, men now have a direct stake in policies that advance gender equity. Most of the wage gap between women and men is no longer a result of blatant male favoritism in pay and promotion. Much of it stems from general wage inequality in society at large.

Establishing a “livable wage” floor would immediately reduce the gap in average pay between American women and men. But it would also boost the wages of millions of low-income male workers, who earn a much lower percentage of the average male wage than their counterparts in other wealthy countries…

Another source of the gender pay gap is the lack of reliable, affordable child care, which forces many mothers to stay home or work part time even when they need and want full-time work.

Putting women first would mean strengthening America’s social safety net, because a higher proportion of single-mother families live in poverty here than in any other wealthy country. But a stronger safety net would help single-father families and two-parent families, too, because these families also have higher poverty rates than their counterparts in other wealthy countries.

Putting women’s traditional needs at the center of social planning is not reverse sexism. It’s the best way to reverse the increasing economic vulnerability of men and women alike.

Given the increasing insecurity of many American men, they have good reason to back feminist policies. And if those policies alienate some women in the upper echelons, then maybe feminism isn’t for every woman, and doesn’t need to be.

Given that liberal feminist policies caused no small part of those insecurities, I’m skeptical that more of the same will do anything positive for men or women.  Anonymous Reader paraphrased Ms. Coontz’s article:

MOAR! MOAR! MOAR! MOAR OF EVERYTHING I WANT!

which is really just another way of saying what Dalrock noted a few days ago:

…we have institutionalized unthankfulness as our response to gracious acts by men.

Don’t be fooled by Ms. Coontz’s reframing of these issues as male issues.  They are not.  They are entirely female issues, and they were caused by feminism.  Consider:

It’s never good enough, is it, feminists?  Women have spent forty years shrieking at men about their supposed privilege, demanding that they give us some of what they had.  And when they did, it turned out that it wasn’t a privilege they’d been carrying but a burden.  So after demanding that society be entirely rearranged, feminists now want men to rearrange it all again by enshrining into law that women should have all the “freedoms” that feminism gave us but none of the responsibilities that come with freedom.

In other words, feminists want women to have what we had before – access to provision from and protection by men – but we do not want to be under the authority of any man, so feminists agitate for policies that will redistribute all men’s income to all women equally.  This will never work in the long run; men will work themselves to the bone for their own women and children, as my husband’s comment above shows, but they aren’t going to work like that for all women.

Feminism has inculcated in women what Dalrock calls a “culture of miserliness”.  This miserliness is bad for individual families when ungrateful women destroy their marriages without cause.  This miserliness is bad for our entire society when ungrateful women blame men for women’s declining well-being even though this decline is due to policies that women demanded men enact.  It is time for women to stop tearing down their families and society with their miserliness and ingratitude.

The wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down. Proverbs 14:1

122 thoughts on “Gratitude: happiness doubled by wonder.

  1. Just Saying

    “If gratitude is happiness,”

    I learned long ago that you can never “make” someone else happy – they have to choose how they will look at life. They can either choose to be miserable, and make others miserable (because that you can spread around), but you can never make anyone else “happy”. Women seem to think that being “happy” is something that can be granted to them by others – it isn’t. They have to be able to look at the things they have done in life, and get joy from it. The fact that they cannot do this, should tell them more about themselves than anything else. Of course, those who understand this simple truth are happy – and those who don’t will rage and rant and rave due to their lack of understanding that they control how they perceive their life.

  2. Entropy is my god

    Let us pray, fervently, that God grants women their hearts desire. A land replete with alphas who care not a whit for them, a lawless landscape where they must bow to no man and where freedom is had by all.

    Pray for the end of this gynocentric tyrannically enforced servitude machine. Pray for the end of the brainwashing and hamstringing and gelding of men, that all women have been profiteering from.

    Pray for everyone, each person, to get exactly what they deserve.

  3. The Real Peterman

    “Today, however… [m]illions of men face working conditions that traditionally characterized women’s lives: low wages, minimal benefits, part-time or temporary jobs”

    Yes, it used to be that all men had above-average jobs. Sure.

  4. Farm Boy

    but they aren’t going to work like that for all women.

    Don’t worry, they will make video games to_mold the blank slate such that they will work.

  5. Farm Boy

    Yes, it used to be that all men had above-average jobs.

    But of course. The Patriarchy guarenteed this.

    Statistics are just a social construct.

  6. earl

    “Everything her husband had worked for in order to build a home and family with her…just gone for no reason.”

    Oh no there was a reason…her reasoning was purely out of emotional selfishness.

  7. Dalrock

    My wife mentioned the other day an article she read that focusing on expressing gratitude helps with depression, especially for people who are “self critical”. Your title connects gratitude and happiness, and science backs this up. Those who are self critical don’t need to focus on self esteem, they need to focus on being grateful. But of course a world of grateful women is the exact opposite of what feminism requires (and creates).

  8. Farm Boy

    The wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down.

    It always struck me as odd that women would need to be told this. Obviously, there are some important issues that theyneed to conquer.

  9. lauratheringmistress

    Forgive my bafflement, but when in the past were women poorer than men on average? In a family, the man and wife are rich or poor together. The plight of the widow is a matter for charity, not policy change.

  10. Farm Boy

    Mrs. Erickson asks, “What kind of guys are available to me?”

    A commenter replies, “Jenny, perhaps for you the best match would be a man who cannot read.”

  11. JRT

    when in the past were women poorer than men on average?

    Not all women get married. Some marry and are abandoned or divorced or widowed or separated. Did you think all women had spouses that lived with them and shared things equally?

  12. earl

    Loving your neighbor as yourself is a type of selfishness that is good for everyone.

    Only loving yourself like Jenny is a selfishness that is bad for everyone.

  13. Steven

    I have been thinking, and it has occurred to me that if the police forces were to be abolished, things would swing towards sanity.

    The shrieking of some women for more and more policies/changes would not be listened to, nor would their demands be enforceable.

    The knowledge that daddy government would no longer respond to a DV call because princess spent time with Alpha McBadboy may influence their future decisions. Furthermore, the knowledge (however faint) that the ghetto-dwellers just inside the nearest city could raid her neighbourhood may make them appreciate their husbands protective abilities.

    I don’t don’t actually believe this will happen (although it would be nice if it did) because even if the governments of the Western World do become insolvent, they will ALWAYS find a way to fund a police force unfortunately. Mustn’t allow the posse comitatus and freedom of association for White people you see…

  14. Farm Boy

    The FI is built-in to all women. They must not be allowed to exercise it.

    Guys have nothing comparable, to both their credit and disadvantage

  15. Scott

    At the risk of sounding like a pedestalizer–the quality, clarity of thought and power of your articles/posts increases with each one. Nice job. I think I hear HHG calling you for a sandwich.

    [ssm: Thank you. Left to my own devices, I am mostly sinful and foolish; what has helped me is prayer. I have a tendency to wander off into the weeds, so to speak, with my blog sometimes and forget exactly what it is I am supposed to be doing here. I asked a handful of readers by email to pray for me to do a better job of staying on point, so anything good here is a result of that and all glory therefore goes to God.]

  16. Sarah's Daughter

    Those who are self critical don’t need to focus on self esteem, they need to focus on being grateful.

    Having a Choleric personality as a woman, this is crucial. Choleric’s are all about being appreciated (when we’ve done something that should be appreciated). Where we lack is an ability to express it (and receive it graciously). It stems from a belief in “ought” – if one ought do something, why would appreciation/gratitude need be expressed? Also, if I “ought” do something, to thank me for it would be to presume I went beyond what I ought to do.

    This drove RLB nuts about me. “How can you be such a bitch so naturally?” I’ve trained myself over the years to add appreciation/gratitude to as many interactions as I can (I still fail miserably) and I’ve learned how to say “your welcome” “no problem” “my pleasure” when gratitude is expressed to me. It has softened me and made me a happier person.

  17. feeriker

    Women seem to think that being “happy” is something that can be granted to them by others – it isn’t. They have to be able to look at the things they have done in life, and get joy from it. The fact that they cannot do this, should tell them more about themselves than anything else.

    Twenty-four karat GOLD.

    Of course the clear implication here involves the dreaded “‘R’ Word” (responsibility), a concept that is behavioral and philosophical kryptonite to most modern women. No, the fact that she’s not haaaaappy is all his fault[TM].

    BTW, if only for the entertainment value, I’d like some day for some unhaaaaaappy EmpoweredWoman[TM] to ‘splain to me how depending on a man to make her happy can be reconciled with her Empowerment Certification*.

    (* I wonder if there’s an ISO standard for this)

  18. sunshinemary Post author

    Dalrock:

    Your title connects gratitude and happiness, and science backs this up.

    Good point. Just a quick google search turns up lots of research on how gratitude improves mental health. Here’s one example:

    Two psychologists, Dr. Robert A. Emmons of the University of California, Davis, and Dr. Michael E. McCullough of the University of Miami, have done much of the research on gratitude. In one study, they asked all participants to write a few sentences each week, focusing on particular topics.

    One group wrote about things they were grateful for that had occurred during the week. A second group wrote about daily irritations or things that had displeased them, and the third wrote about events that had affected them (with no emphasis on them being positive or negative). After 10 weeks, those who wrote about gratitude were more optimistic and felt better about their lives. Surprisingly, they also exercised more and had fewer visits to physicians than those who focused on sources of aggravation.

    Another leading researcher in this field, Dr. Martin E. P. Seligman, a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania, tested the impact of various positive psychology interventions on 411 people, each compared with a control assignment of writing about early memories. When their week’s assignment was to write and personally deliver a letter of gratitude to someone who had never been properly thanked for his or her kindness, participants immediately exhibited a huge increase in happiness scores. This impact was greater than that from any other intervention, with benefits lasting for a month.

    (source: Harvard Health Publications)

    This is why just before Thanksgiving, Elspeth, Velvet, HearthRose, and I did a link-up post on expressing gratitude for our husbands. Any married female readers who are interested can find those posts here:

    Sunshine Mary: How to change your man.
    Velvet: The common good.
    Hearth Rose: Thankful for my hubby: A blog-party
    Elspeth: Let me count the ways.

    I highly advise women to cultivate a grateful heart toward their men.

  19. Farm Boy

    Today’s headline,

    “Men Not Working
    Women Hardest Hit”

    ssm: Another example:

    “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” -Hillary Rodham Clinton

  20. earl

    To be fair…I wasn’t a greatful person myself for the longest time. I had to train myself to say thank you…when somebody did something for me. Even the smallest things like holding a door open for me or doing a task when I asked them.

    Perhaps as men and aware women this is another thing we need to train women again. Much like you tell your kids “What do you say” after you do something for them.

  21. Martel

    @ Earl: “Perhaps as men and aware women this is another thing we need to train women again. Much like you tell your kids What do you say after you do something for them.”

    This is one of those ways in which Game corresponds with doing the right thing. Telling a spoiled princes “your welcome” (or whatever other snide way to point it out) when she fails to thank you for something not only reminds her that she’s getting out of line, it raises your stature for being unafraid to point it out.

  22. Bike Bubba

    You know, I almost took Shriver seriously until I read her recommendations for “helping” women. As Laura hints, the good for women and men both is found in marriage and family, but Shriver seems to be more interested in papering over the damage done by people like her Uncle Teddy. To be fair to her, what kind of family life have the Kennedys had? It’s not like she could learn by example.

    Looks a lot like a lot of people, male and female, need to have that gratitude thing cultivated.

  23. Elspeth

    This is one of my things. I really hate it when women are ungrateful for not only their husbands, but their children, homes, lives that most people in the world can’t even fathom. We live in a time that is unprecedented. Unless you were of royal blood most people throughout history lived lives in a slog for survival, with joy found in the simple things of life.

    We have everything we need and even more that we don’t, and we still manage to be unhappy, bitchy, critical, all around unpleasant.

    The funny thing is that no one who knows me in real life would consider me a Pollyanna or bubbly at all. But I am happy and it isn’t because my life is perfect. I have no interest at all in engaging in a gripe fest about my husband or anything else. And people think I’m the one with the problem.

    Life is unpredictable and you never know when you’ll be fighting the battle of your life. All the more reason in my opinion to cherish the good times and be grateful for the people you have been bless to love and serve. Yes, serve.

    But we can’t having women serving now can we?

  24. lauratheringmistress

    @Sarah’s Daughter

    So true about choleric temperaments. I’m a choleric melancholy so I travel between pride and despair. I understand well exactly what you said. Gratitude does not come naturally.

    Oddly enough, it’s even more hard to apply this to my children. How do I reinforce their good works when it’s only what they “ought” to be doing. They need to receive the reward of gratitude to help them grow to where virtue is a habit. Even God says “Well done, my void and faithful servant.” We need to offer that grace both to those to whom we serve and to those in service to us.

  25. RichardP

    “… to call attention to the economic plight of American women and demand that women’s needs be put ‘at the center of policy making.’ ”

    1. “He governs best who governs least” – implies that people, mostly left to themselves, will be industrious.

    2. Hypergamy = getting the best source of resources one is capable of getting.

    If women are generally governed by hypergamy (getting rather than creating), then the industrious folks in Point 1 are going to mostly be men.

    Conclusion: When men express their desire for government, it will be directed mostly to Point 1, and result in smaller government and lower taxes. When women express their desire for government, it will be directed mostly to Point 2, and will result in ever-larger government and ever-increasing taxes.

    Men = leave me alone and let me work.

    Women = leave me alone and let me get the most resources from the government I can get. (That is the “women’s needs” that should be put at the center of policymaking?)

  26. Farm Boy

    As I mentioned previously, my Mom was always grateful for all that my Dad did, even with his modest income. Happy, she was.

  27. M3

    Feminism broke the machinery of a smooth running engine, then demands more feminism to fix it.

    What was that quote about insanity again?

  28. Farm Boy

    leave me alone and let me get the most resources from the government I can get.

    That would not be “leaving me alone”

  29. songtwoeleven

    Farm Boy writes: “Insanity, thy name is woman?”

    Hysteria? Hysterectomy?

    Anyone?

    (Sexist, I know…)

  30. Martel

    @ Richard: Reinforcing the political tendencies you describe is our innate views of wealth. Men are more concerned with wealth production, for instinctually we know we either create or fall behind. Women are more concerned with wealth distribution, for they prosper according to what others are willing to provide for them.

  31. FuzzieWuzzie

    After reading that quote of Hilary, I could imagine her delivering it to women back home in Arkansas in 1867. There wouldn’t be much left of her.

  32. Farm Boy

    After reading that quote of Hilary, I could imagine her delivering it to women back home in Arkansas in 1867

    Hillary is a native born Yankee. I will leave it to Ton to explain how well that would have gone over.

  33. M3

    Feminism
    “We don’t want to give women a choice between work or being a mom.. too many women would choose being a mom, so we propagandize the glory of work!”

    Report:
    Women make up close to two-thirds of minimum-wage workers in the country — and upwards of 70 percent of those low-wage workers receive no paid sick days whatsoever, according to the report.

    Feminism
    “Now that we have women flooding the labor market, depreciating wages, and killing any ability for a single parent provider role, we need government to step in and tax people to provide subsidies for choice mommies, and use schools as daycare because no one is at home with the children anymore.”

    Feminism
    “Marriage is oppressive! Choice-Mommies is where it’s at! Murphy Brown! We can raise children on our own, who needs stinking men or husbands!”

    Report:
    All the while, some 40 percent of all American households with children below the age of 18 include mothers who are either the only or primary source of income

    Feminism
    “We need flex time, working shorter hours and sick days for these choice mommies. And not too dangerous jobs, work/family life!”

    Report:
    with the average earnings of full-time female workers still just 77 percent of the average earnings of their male colleagues, the report reads. (DUH female work choices)

    Shriver
    “Men are totally a part of this conversation, in terms of how they raise their daughters, in terms of how they support their wives and their partners,” she said.

    Because it’s only about the women.

    Shriver
    “These are women who are already doing it all — working hard, providing, parenting, and care-giving. They’re doing it all, yet they and their families can’t prosper, and that’s weighing the U.S. economy down.”
    Eventually the patient stops bleeding. Instead of fixing the wounds you created, you made new ones hoping to divert the blood flow away from the first wound. Because you kept making the MOAR wounds, there was no blood left in the system. We call that condition death. But this is the system you fought for!

    [ssm: Excellent analysis, M3, thank you for that.]

  34. M3

    “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

    Applying more and MOAR feminism expecting things to get better is insane.

  35. JDG

    Insanity, thy name is woman.

    Possible accelerators: Birth control, mood altering medications, PMS, entitlements, TV, accademia, LOSD (Lack of Self-Discipline)… I know I’ve missed a few.

  36. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, after you said that, I did look her up. She’s from Illinois. The same speech in 1867 wouldn’t be well ricieved there either.

  37. JDG

    But we can’t having women serving now can we?

    I dunno. Sammiches would be fine.

    Woman, thy job is sammich making.

  38. songtwoeleven

    “Gratitude does not come naturally.” – Lauratheringmistress

    You know, I don’t think gratitude comes naturally for ANYONE, not just those with a certain personality type. Look at the children of Israel: delivered via miraculous act of God through the Red Sea, and days later, griping and complaining about everything. Scorning their anointed leader, Moses, and grumbling about eating bread and not quail. Geesh.

    I think it’s human nature, and I think we’ve encouraged SO MUCH HUMAN NATURE in women – we encourage the worst human traits in women – that now we have a bunch of entitled little spoiled brats running around demanding everything on a silver platter in shrill, toddler-voices. Men actually LISTEN to these women! Its’ amazing. I should qualify: progressive men, feminist men, actually listen to these women.

    This goes back to SSM saying that we’ve lost generational teachings, Titus 2 teachings, to younger women. It’s our job as older women to correct these younger women, but we’re not doing it on a large scale. I personally do not know how; right now I do not have time to update my blog. SSM seems to be doing a fine job on this blog – it brings righteous conviction to some women.

    We’ve got to start teaching the younger women how to cultivate Christian character; Godly character, and this begins with the fruits of the Spirit. So, she’s got to actually HAVE the Spirit of God living in her – our young lady we are to mentor – or she can’t grow fruit, because He is the one Who grows it once it’s planted. Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. A grateful mouth will come forth from a woman with these fruits.

    [ssm: There are a lot of parallels between how the Israelites behaved in their 40-year wander and how forty years of feminism has warped women into behaving.]

  39. Farm Boy

    “Gratitude does not come naturally.”

    A sequence of humbling experiences can make it happen.

    At least for some people

  40. pukeko60

    We all…
    …. Have broken personalities.
    …. Have to choose daily not to be a natural alpha bastard, beta chump, gamma doormat or omega black hole.
    … Have to be thankful for what we have killing envy.
    Hilary wants to inflame envy and use our faults as victim cards she can use, fir her benefit.

    But the trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money and talents.

  41. TimberStJames

    Seems worth pointing out that there are glimmers of light in the Shriver Report. Kathryn Edin, a Harvard professor, closed a cogent article with this: “[T]he most important thing I need you to do—all of you, even Barack Obama—is to change your attitude about these fathers. They care deeply about their kids. They are not lacking the will. Let’s join together to help them find the way.”

  42. Farm Boy

    Imagine all countries went to war and the men didn’t show up?

    Perhaps the women could throw sammiches at each other.

  43. Julian O'Dea

    Mrs Clinton:

    “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.”

    Did she think about that for two seconds?

    There is a good line in Whit Stillman’s Metropolitan.

    “Jane’s father died last year.”
    “That must have been tough on her.”
    “Yes, it was tough on him too.”

    [ssm: LOL]

  44. an observer

    The summary article from the Shriver report made no reference to welfare entitlements for black single moms.

    Nor was there any mention of the black male incarceration rate.

  45. an observer

    Perhaps the women could throw sammiches at each other.

    I wonder what their range is. And what type of sammich would inflict the greatest damage?

    Perhaps they could throw them with little notes attached: you are a terrible mother, and he was just faking it.

  46. an observer

    Julian,

    That’s funny.

    Back in the day, it always struck me as odd that church ministers wives claimed they had a bad deal, and worked harder than their husbands.

    Behold, the FI.

  47. Rollo Tomassi

    “Gratitude does not come naturally.” – Lauratheringmistress
    http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/14/appreciation/

    Appreciation

    I think what most men uniquely deceive themselves of is that they will ultimately be appreciated by women for their sacrifices. Learn this now, you wont. You can’t be because women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate her reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminine-centric reality. Men making the personal sacrifices necessary to honor, respect and love her are commonplace. You’re supposed to do those things. You sacrificed your ambitions and potential to provide her with a better life? You were supposed to. You resisted temptation and didn’t cheat on your wife with the hot secretary who was DTF and ready to go? You were supposed to. Your responsibilities to maintaining a marriage, a home, your family, etc. are common – they’re expected. They are only appreciated in their absence.

    This is the totality of the feminine-centric reality. Men only exist to facilitate the feminine reality, and any man who disputes this (or even analyzes its aspects) is therefore not a ‘man’. It just IS. Even the most self-serving, maverick among men is still beholden to the feminine imperative in that he’s only defined as a rebel because he doesn’t comply with the common practices of ‘men’ in a female defined reality. And ironically it’s just this maverick who is appreciated by the feminine above those men who would comply with it (or even promote it) as a matter of course.

    HHG’s comment is a good example of how men don’t even expect women to appreciate their everyday commonplace sacrifices.

  48. Martel

    “Imagine all countries went to war and the men didn’t show up?”

    Battlefields would be strewn with broken fingernails and clumps of hair.

  49. Ton

    Feminism in the usa has it’s roots in yankees and yankee land as they were quick to set aside God and the natural order of things to chase after all manners of utopian ideas. It also predates the war of northern aggression

    Nothing good comes from above Manson Dixion line.

    The fastest and most long lasting way to teach women gratitude is for men to withdrawal all good will toward women. Most men don’t have the balls to do such a thing but it would work in months vs generations.

    Pastors wives sound like army wives. Wonder what their infidelity rate is? Be an interesting battle since army wives hover near 100%

  50. Julian O'Dea

    I wish I could draw like a cartoonist. I would draw a Day in the Life of a Professional Feminist, showing her using male inventions, being transported by men, protected by men, all day, and then have her in the last panel proclaim the “end of men”.

    I ask, is there anything at all that Maria Shriver was not given by men?

  51. Anonymous Reader

    The whole media circus with Shriver points in one direction politically: the current ruling party has decided to double down on their rhetoric about the imaginary “war against women”. So that means they’ve decided to double down on misandry.

  52. dannyfrom504

    it’s always easy to argue with feminists, just ask- “why do you think that?” let her ramble on and reply, “ok. where’s the proof that helped you draw that conclusion?” let her drone on. giggle, shake your head, say “ok” and walk.

    feminists HATE when you side step their negativity. then angrier she gets, the calmer i get. lol.

  53. Wild Man

    Has ANYONE ever come across a job application where the description lists, under salary/benefits, “Male Salary $100,000 + benefits, Female $71,000 + benefits”?!

    Somebody shoot me with this GARBAGE that says women get paid 71c on the dollar for what I earn. I have been in the workforce for nigh on 20 years and NEVER applied for a job where the women doing the same job earned less than I did. However, I did work in plenty of jobs where the women in the same position as me REFUSED to do certain parts of the job and instead stood around chit-chatting and attention-whoring while the men did their job for them, and then turned up on payday expecting equal pay for lesser work.

  54. Lady Just Saying

    FEMINISTS EVERYWHERE THINK EXACTLY THE SAME THING — We don’t want to give women a choice between work or being a mom.. too many women would choose being a mom, so we propagandize the glory of work!

    As a feminist (though I’ve never thought of myself as one, but I’ll agree with you guys upfront, I am a feminist because I want some choice about my life), I do not think look down on stay at home moms. I respect their choice, and know they have a tough job and I know there are men that are absolutely fantastic fathers, who are treated unfairly regarding custody issues. If you guys could waive a magic wand and have everything your way — I would be the one without any choices — as in the choice to not be a parent but be married and have my own income. Don’t you pretty much all want Saudi Arabia-lite except with Christianity as the enforced religion? Maybe I’m wrong –

  55. Anonymous Reader

    FuzzieWuzzie
    Anonymous Reader, should they choose to do that, it is tantamount to conceding defeat.

    Seems pretty obvious they have decided to do that, and they see it as the path to a victory.

  56. jaybeespancakes

    @Lady Just Saying

    You are wrong.

    [ssm: About many things. But she contributed $100 to one of my preferred charities (Love146), so she gets to stay. She's like our feminist pet. And she's becoming less feminist the more she hangs around here, so there is hope for her yet...]

  57. Stingray

    “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” -Hillary Rodham Clinton

    She’s good.

    Women . . . victims.

    Women . . . lose husbands, fathers, sons.

    Women . . . flee homes . . . only

    Women . . . refugees . . conflict . . . victims

    Women . . . responsibility . . alone . . . raising children

    Each and every woman felt anxiety hearing this 20 second quote and they want this anxiety GONE. Who are they going to vote for then? The man who they believe cannot relate or the woman who can feel like they do and commiserates with them even though it’s complete crap? She is using women’s solipsism to show that she can understand their fears and then pretends to be able to take them away.

    [ssm: Insidious. So, she instills anxiety in them, then offers empathy, then offers a solution. All created by her. Very perceptive analysis, Stingray.]

  58. Farm Boy

    I am a feminist because I want some choice about my life

    You had that under the patriarchy. Nobody forced women to be wives and moms; it was just encouraged.

  59. Lady Just Saying

    @jaybees & SSM

    What I am wrong about — I can’t possibly know unless you enlighten me. Apparently it’s many things — so enlighten me I’m all ears — I may even donate again to Love146 if you can convince me you’re right and I’m wrong.

  60. FuzzieWuzzie

    I saw something on PBS a while back, Ric Burns Death and the Civil War. At the conclusion, a general got the government to cough up seven million dollars to get all the Federals buried. For the Confederates, women solicited donations.
    I have to wonder how well those women would react to Hillary’s statement.
    I do keep referring to this as an example of moral agency.

  61. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lady Just Saying, Saudi Arabia Light is not what is called for. I tried to link a video done by Aaron Clarey but, couldn’t find it. In the video, he list the three things that young men wish they had that could reincentivize them and get the economy going as it should.
    First, careers. Second, wives, Third, Children.
    What do you think has undercut all these reasonable aspirations?
    Please note that you are not being sandwich negged. :)

  62. Lady Just Saying

    “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” -Hillary Rodham Clinton

    What in that statement is incorrect. Men lose their life but that doesn’t negate her statement. Men’s loss of their life is tragic. That still doesn’t negate her statement. She isn’t saying the loss of men’s lives doesn’t matter. Remove the first sentence, and re-read and that is the point is was trying to make.

  63. FuzzieWuzzie

    About Aaron’s video, he didn’t hold out any hope for points two and three. He did have hope for point one to help boost the economy.

  64. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lady Just Saying, I wish that my grandmother were around to refute Hillary’s statement. Born in 1900, she was only two generations away from that war.
    The first sentence is false. Women would be secondary victims.
    This is how lies are crafted. Falsehood surrounded carefully constructed truth.

  65. Lady Just Saying

    @Fuzzie

    Agreed, the statement should be stated as women are the primary victims of the aftermath of war. Though men certainly are too, with physical disabilities and the mental wear and tear of being in combat.

  66. grey_whiskers

    @ssm
    ssm: Another example:

    “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” -Hillary Rodham Clinton

    Hillary Clinton, with Bill Clinton, on “60 Minutes” in 1992:
    http://lh3.ggpht.com/_5XvBYfxU_dM/TUCBvnWgPDI/AAAAAAAAQA8/L0wWWupyQec/Hillary%20and%20Bill%20Clinton,%2060%20Minutes%201992-8×6.jpg%3Fimgmax%3D800

    ..aaand Hillary more recently:
    http://onecitizenspeaking.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d3b569e201a3fbe6d8a9970b-pi

    Now talk to me again about the “War on Women” ?
    …or as Bill Clinton might say, “Make Love, not War!”

  67. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lady Just Saying, please don’t equivocate. There was one woman who could be called the primary victim of war at Gettyburg. A stray shot killed her in her house as the Federals yielded the town.
    Go back and read Stingray’s comment. In essence, she demonstrates that it is an appeal to fear.
    There is also something else to consider. In her statement, there is a presumption that women’s secondary needs take precedence over men’s primaryneeds.
    I can’t think of the proper word for it but, this so large, it’s mnd boggling.

  68. Lady Just Saying

    @Fuzzie

    In her statement, there is a presumption that women’s secondary needs take precedence over men’s primaryneeds.

    I was not saying they do but I can see how her statement could be read that way. Even when I think I’m agreeing, I guess it doesn’t come across as such, I did not mean to equivocate, sorry.

  69. Cautiously Pessimistic

    You can’t have a war without soldiers

    Reminds me of the old 60’s saying: What if they gave a war and no one came?

    It’s called genocide, precious. Be glad someone shows up to fight for your ungrateful carcass.

  70. Lady Just Saying

    My sincerest gratitude to all the soldiers in all the wars that gave their life so I could have the freedoms I have and we all live in a country where we can disagree. So I humbly salute you.

  71. FuzzieWuzzie

    Lady Just Saying, I think you are beginning to see it. The next thing to overcome is the perception of men as “other” fostered by feminism. We’re not here to compete or be enemies.
    Since you have a husband that you’re sweet on, that will help with dispelling that.

  72. Farm Boy

    there is a presumption that women’s secondary needs take precedence over men’s primaryneeds.

    Well Fuzzie, you should just grin and bear it.

  73. sunshinemary Post author

    Sunshine Mary = Anti-feminist drill sergeant
    Fuzzie = the Feminist Whisperer

    Sometimes a gentle touch is called for. I’m glad I have readers who can do that.

  74. Farm Boy

    Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.

    Stupid husband. Such a doofus for letting himself get killed in a war.

  75. Lady Just Saying

    @SSM – anti-feminist drill sergeant
    @Fuzzie – the feminist whisperer

    So so true. Drill sergeant tactics only make me dig myself in deeper. And I will have to admit that reading this site has made me more appreciative of my own DH — who is a real sweetie, I don’t know how he puts up with me — LOL

  76. Wild Man

    “Women are left with the responsibility of raising children alone.”

    Well, hasn’t feminism already established that men aren’t necessary? “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” Or per Maureen Dowd, “Are men necessary?”

    Make up your sandwich-making minds, dearies … either you need us or you don’t

  77. Rollo Tomassi

    I’ll give Hilary Clinton credit; in a 20 second quote she singlehandedly outlines, excuses and endorses the War Brides dynamic while still maintaining women’s default victimhood status, dismissing ‘male privilege’ and remaining convincingly oblivious and indifferent to anything that might legitimize men as having any real human agency.

    Bravo Hilary, your example is an inspiration to the women’s ‘movement’. And she also married an apex Alpha.

  78. FuzzieWuzzie

    SSM, I don’t know about being “The Feminist Whisperer”. Mares are a lot easier. Bring them food on a regular schedule and if you have a connection with the local produce man for distressed herbivore treats, they’ll love you and always be happy to see you!
    NEIGH!!!

  79. FuzzieWuzzie

    About Drill Sargeants, I thought about linking R. Lee Ermey but, NO.
    Maybe Jack Webb in his first starring role? NO

  80. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, “Would you believe…?” I do remember that refrain from the TV series. I would believe Tennesee Tuxedo but, I had no idea of his ever being a Drill Sergeant.

  81. Legion

    an observer January 15, 2014 at 5:18 pm
    “I wonder what their range is. And what type of sammich would inflict the greatest
    damage?”

    If they put toothpicks in them they can poke an eye out.

  82. Opus

    The idea that women are victims of war (except at say Dresden or Hiroshima) is pure bunkum. As someone who lost two-thirds of his male relatives who were on the continent of Europe between 1939 and 1945 I find the suggestion outrageous and indefensible. Widows can always remarry (and given female propensity for divorce one can only suppose that crocodile tears).

    My father survived (of course) but I would say that he spent the remainder of his life failing to come to terms with what had happened (he was decorated for his part in Arnhem and had been in Normandy a few months earlier).

  83. Opus

    I should have added that my throughout the second world war my mother was engaged to be married to a man who became a prisoner of war of the Japanese.

  84. Opus

    I’d like to add something else (if SSM permits). I asked my mother, what WW2 was like. ‘It was wonderful’ she enthused(!) Vaguely exciting but not very dangerous. Rationing of course – and Doodlebugs but she said you knew you were safe provided the engine on the V2 did not cut-out (for otherwise it was about to fall). She lived in S(ub)urbiton, and used to go out to watch for fires at night. It is also (interestingly) clear from what she reports that not all German P.O.W.s were always incarcerated as she attended some ‘Four at Cards’ where one of the four was a German Officer.

    I may also add (this should amaze the feminists) that her own mother had refused to allow my mother to go out to work for going out to work was a sign of being lower and lower-middle class which grandmother certainly was not (being the daughter of a Colonel and Niece of a V.C. wearing General). The shortage of men from 1940 was what enabled my mother (not withstanding her highly expensive private education at one of England oldest and most distinguished girls school – founded1726(!)) to bash a typewriter and script Pitman shorthand, grandmother obviously finally giving in. Grandmother never worked day in her life and would have thought that to do so was beneath her status – so you can imagine what she would have thought of the Suffragettes.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s