The baffled spinster.

Here fishy, fishy, fishy…

A couple days ago I noticed a few young men on Twitter laughing about this quote:

“I just wanted to make things clear I didn’t “sleep around.” Most of my relationships have been long term I have only been with 18 guys”

but I had no idea what they were referring to until I saw Vox’s post, Fourteen years of fun.  The quote is from an AskMen Reddit, Guys, I am a single Indian[32f] woman. And I feel like I missed out on my opportunity of ever getting married and having a family.

My first thought was that this woman is simply fishing, trying to use AskMen Reddit to trawl for a man who will feel sorry for her and who may be enticed by what she reveals about herself in the comment thread, such as the fact that she earns north of $100,000 per year, works out, is in excellent shape, and would “take anyone as long as they were kind respectful. Around my income level and were fit.” 

However, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that articles like hers are a good thing simply because they expose the lie.  Feminists have sold young women a bill of goods, that they can live like men, work like men, have sex like men, and then turn back into women when they feel like it.  We laugh at a woman like this sometimes and make fun of her and say, “Didn’t she know that she’d end up like this?”

No, she didn’t know that.  That’s because when you are 17 years old, you don’t know much, especially in this culture of extended adolescence.  And when you have been told from a very young age that, as a girl, it is your destiny to Have It All exactly When You Want It, I’m sure it is very baffling to find yourself in your thirties with no husband and none in sight, with the dawning realization that your job and lonely apartment are not nearly as fulfilling as being a wife and mother would have been.

One of Vox’s commenters writes:

I am feeling joy from her pain.

I would pay money to watch this fkg whr cry herself to sleep.

Personally, I feel no joy in this woman’s pain.  I don’t think a White Knight should ride in to save her because I think she should suffer the natural consequences of her decisions so that other young women may see and learn from her errors, but I take no pleasure in the fact that she will have this lot in life.  However, what most of us don’t seem to understand is that young women make the terrible choices that they are making because they are told from an early age that these are actually good choices.  Some girls are able to resist that message, which saturates every aspect of the media and schools, but most girls aren’t, and they don’t develop the necessary wisdom until it is too late.

It is easy to laugh at a 32-year-old woman who has suffered such consequences for her bad choices.  It becomes a lot less funny when you realize that she was trained to make, and rewarded for making, these bad choices at a time when she was too young and naive to understand what she was doing.

I plan to have a certain pair of early-teens girls I know read this woman’s Reddit story.  Parents: I know you don’t want to discuss these kinds of subjects with your young daughters, but the time to give our daughters the wisdom they need to navigate a sick, feministic, hedonistic Sexual Market Place (SMP)/Marriage Market Place (MMP) is before they enter those markets.

211 thoughts on “The baffled spinster.

  1. Elspeth

    I’m not convinced that this woman will ultimately remain a spinster.

    As for teaching your girls, my girls and I have had some of these discussions. An excellent book for young women is “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Women, Sex And Feminism”. It’s on my book shelf, and my three young women daughters have read it.

  2. Farm Boy

    would “take anyone as long as they were kind respectful. Around my income level and were fit.” 

    But would she keep him after the sperm deliveries were completed?

  3. cdw100

    We have a pile of these kinds of ladies at work. There was a time when they were the top of their class, now they are just middling walk past types, still look good, but have nothing to offer any man seeking a wife and hopefully children. Their own personal anger at the world is fun to watch as they always tell me that they are in control of their world.

  4. sunshinemary Post author

    I’m not convinced that this woman will ultimately remain a spinster.

    Quite possible not, but this woman’s story is interesting because of the way that race plays into it. I don’t usually get into race here, but here is another lie she was sold:

    People are just people and we live in a post-racial world.

    No, actually, people (nearly all people) generally prefer to marry within their own race. White men in particular don’t often marry outside their own race, other than the increasing but still relatively minor trend of White men marrying Asian women.

    But she believed that she could have a series of sexual relationships with White men and that Progressivist fantasies would trump reality. Unfortunately, the reality is that she is no longer considered marriageable by Indian men because of her age, slutty past, and lack of wifely skills, but White men won’t marry her because she’s Indian, a fact she herself has come to realize too late.

    Edit: By the way, I’m only describing the statistical reality: people (especially white men) generally marry within their own race. I am not saying that this is morally superior or anything like that. It just is what people tend to prefer to do.

  5. Farm Boy

    Most of my relationships have been long term I have only been with 18 guys

    This woman realizes that she is a slut, but does not want to admit it.

    By the Catholic Church definition of slut, she is a slut.

  6. Cail Corishev

    I suspect that most of the parents and others (not the hard-core feminists) who encouraged young women to “explore” themselves thought that would mean a fling or two in college and one long-term boyfriend, then marriage. No major harm done. But once the horse is out of the barn — once you’ve said that virginity isn’t important, or is even a negative — what’s the harm in one more? And then one more? And another? When sex comes as easily as it does for attractive women, it doesn’t take long for “one more” to turn into 50, to the point where a woman with 18 men in her past now thinks she’s been reserved.

    I’m starting to think the old saying that men triple their N and women divide it by 3 was optimistic, or no longer applies. My own rule of thumb — one guy per year since age 18 — would have guessed this girl’s N as 14 to start, which would have been even lower than what she’s admitting to.

    We now have an entire cohort of women with N>10, but perhaps more important than their N is the fact that they’ve spent their entire adult lives in sexual relationships unless they took a break out of choice. For them to marry and have families, they’re going to have to marry men with Ns a fraction of their own — assuming they can see these men, once desperate enough — who spent much of their adult lives unable to get dates, let alone sex (or married to women who withheld sex). This will not go well.

  7. freebird

    The pre-pubesecent girls have smart phone and are sending duck face selfies on a regular basis to grab male attention.
    Once the first menarch occurs they now feel all that horsepower is going to waste,and commence to engage in ‘empowerment.’

    By 17 they are jaded.
    That is the training,and it involves the MAD
    Mobile Attention Device to a great degree.
    Parents seem clueless to this sexpensive technology.

    *It* used to be sheltered and prepped for ‘the one,’ now it is shipped wholesale to the masses.
    Thus,as supply goes up,demand goes down as does the price.
    Which creates a situation where they now must use multiple social media platforms to compete,and BJ’s in the high school parking lot which were pre-arranged as ‘hookups’ are quite common.

    Word has it some have taken it as a game,where the partners in these teenage trysts are unknown to each other before the public exhibition for the approval of the peer groups.

    For God’s sake stop the MAD madness.

  8. Stg58/Animal Mother

    Where did she get this programming? Her parents, I think, are conservative traditional Indian parents, so where did she get this information? Public schools and public universities.

  9. OffTheCuff

    When you burn through 18 people in less than 18 years, then the word “Long” in LTR ceases to have any meaning whatsoever.

    On HUS, they called these things LTR’s, but really, they are just serial monogamy at best. The proprietor of said site told me the definition of an LTR is “I like fucking you and, it will stop when I find someone better” (which provides easy exit at any time; most notably, graduation). So yes, women do think this way — this is what grandma is now teaching your kids.

    My position is that’s not any sort of real relationship, it’s an overgrown FWB arrangement, and, if that’s the case, you might have the real thing. But I was polite, and called them MTR’s.

  10. Bob Wallace

    She will become a spinster because she cannot lower her standards.

    As a bit of an aside, every spinster I’ve met has either been 50 pounds overweight, or scrawny. All of them are on psychiatric medication, they’re all hostile to men and blame all their problems on them, and they’re paranoid that men are “doing things” to them – mostly thinking they’re going to be raped/molested.

  11. freebird

    A recent study showed ADD could be cured by *making* children memorize long poems,such as bible verses or Christmas poems to be read before the congregation.
    The MAD is the opposite,it traps the mind into laziness as each thought and expression is pre-packaged in a colourful GUI.

    Thus comes ‘text speak.’
    What is next,grunting,the painting red of exposed buttocks,or the Bonobo Model as a National Policy?

    Too late,I fear.

  12. Farm Boy

    Their own personal anger at the world is fun to watch as they always tell me that they are in control of their world.

    They need a script of Hamsterol. For when you are lonely and out of sorts, and want to lash out at the world.

    Side effects include realizing that you are not the center of the universe, and to drive that point home, explosive diarrhea

  13. OffTheCuff

    Whoops, I goofed the quote. It was more like “…and it will end for any reason I see fit”. (Which allows for upgrades, of course.)

  14. Cail Corishev

    I’m not convinced that this woman will ultimately remain a spinster. — Elspeth

    If she’s fit and attractive, probably not. That alone puts her in the top 50% or better of eligible females. If she wants a family badly enough to scale back her careerism and learn some kitchen skills, she probably won’t have much trouble finding a man who agrees to ignore her past indiscretions, especially if she uses the skills learned during those indiscretions to bang him silly.

    Will it work, though? Let’s say she finds a man her own age, 32, who wants to settle down — not a player. She’s basically been having as much sex as she wants — maybe more than she really wanted, to get the emotional relationships — for 14 years, her entire adult life. She might still enjoy sex, even crave it at times, but she’s kinda had her fill. There’s nothing new or exciting about sex anymore; she’s switched her focus to babies and family.

    On the other hand, the man, if he’s typical, has spent many years not having sex. Maybe he’s had two ex-girlfriends and one ex-wife, all of whom were pretty enthusiastic at first, but withheld sex more and more as the relationships deteriorated. Other than that, maybe he had a couple of one-night-stands, but the rest of the time he went without. He may never have gotten all the sex he wanted for any extended period of time, but he’d sure like to try it, and that would be his #1 reason for marrying — especially for marrying a woman with a history of having lots of sex.

    If these two marry, odds are she’s going to want sex about as often as necessary to make babies, and he’s going to want it every day, maybe twice a day until he catches up for those lost years. One of them isn’t going to be very happy, and it’s probably going to be him.

  15. jack

    I don’t know why Vox’s site does not show my name when I post.
    Yes, that was me. NRFS ™.

    Dalrock put it best:
    “As I’ve mentioned before, women delaying marriage are playing a collective game of chicken in order to avoid wasting any more of their youth and fertility on their husbands than absolutely necessary.”

    And as I have said before, it is only right that they drink out of the same cup of loneliness and pain that they so blithely served to the good men around them.

    Vagolozolz tinglzlz, as GBFM would say.

    The tingle-seeking algorithm has been loosed upon the modern world. Like a virus, it will consume everything in its path until there is nothing left. In other words, civilization must break down eventually due to the lack of motivation from the good men. Sooner or later, they will be too detached to even purchase this kind of high-mileage woman.

  16. freebird

    All of this will pave the way for the next authoritarian anti-christ figure.

    Segregated schools with specific training to serve the State will bring purpose and this temporary serenity.
    (which will be an illusion)

    The current answer is homeschooling and limited technology,the Amish keep pure by going Luddite and self schooling and governance.

    The elite are aware of this and are trying to break those last few bonds on inter-family solidarity.
    The UN Treaty upon childrens rights is a fine example,home schooling is ILLEGAL in Germany and some other countries as well.

    This new law of the land would remove the last vestiges of familial ‘ownership,’ to the point where in-home discipline is also outlawed.
    Soon mothers will have as little say in the upbringing as fathers do now.

    Come out from her.Be a people separated.
    Thus sayeth the Lord God.

  17. Farm Boy

    One of them isn’t going to be very happy, and it’s probably going to be him.

    It normally does not take much to make a fella content, but women can’t even be bothered to do that.

    There is the FI for ya.

    NAWALT

  18. jack

    And yes, despite my professed Christianity, I think that I would pay for that:

    weeping spinsters dot com.

    Yeah, I know, Christians are not supposed to bring the hate. I get it. But for once could we see some actual repentance? That reddit thread is full of nothing but shaming language for the good men who are insulted at being served leftovers and being asked to pay full price.

  19. Denise

    At this point in time, there is no longer an education penalty when it comes to marriage. Many who pursued education/career will marry later, but at about the same rate as those who married earlier–and among some demographics, at a higher rate than those with less education.

    That’s not to say that her priorities were good or OK, but rather that onlookers are judging a story that hasn’t yet unfolded. Also, if she gets married, I wouldn’t (necessarily) categorize that as a White Knight rescuing her. That seems to be a forced label used to automatically dismiss the worth of such a marriage and to imply that she would be escaping the “natural consequences” of her actions. But men are free to decide who is and is not worth their commitment. If someone ultimately does choose her, he would really be the only one to determine her suitability as his wife. Should she have slept around (which she certainly did)? Nope. But I wouldn’t confuse your desire for her to be punished for her errors with her actual marriage prospects.

  20. Scott

    I wish I knew where you find these photos for your posts. Anyway, this time will be coming for us soon enough. On the daughter front, we are about 10 years behind you.

  21. Ton

    When a woman gives her N-count, it’s her daily average.

    I would reckon her problem on marrying is, not adjusting to her much lower marriage value vs her higher smp value.

  22. Farm Boy

    In my family I was always the rebellious one;

    She says that like it is a good thing. Thrill seeker, she is. “Only men capable cleaning up my messes need apply”

  23. Aquinas Dad

    Thank you for pointing out something I have been trying to harp on;
    Women like this aren’t born in a vacuum.
    The culture is *pounding* these crazy ideas into everyone’s head!
    As I have mentioned before even people who try to reject the culture somehow seem to embrace the idea that
    ‘my daughters MUST go to college and MUST get a degree and MUST at least start a career and then, and ONLY then, can they *start* to look for a husband. And my girls are sooooo wonderful that I am positive that she will have no problems whatsoever in finding the absolute best guy almost as soon as she starts looking’
    When I point out that my oldest son wants to marry before 21 and wants a SAHW immediately I am met with shock, disbelief, and outright attacks ['if your son doesn't want a wife with a degree he is a coward who thinks she is smarter than him!' is my favorite]. When I point out the statistics on marriage [getting a degree delays marriage and children a great deal, etc.] – pushback. The strongest pushback I get is from a friend who has told me several times ‘my husband and I wish we had married younger and had more kids when we were able, but we put everything off until we had masters’ and then ‘my daughters MUST have degrees! MUST! They aren’t allowed to date at all until they have a bachelors!’
    We’ll see
    In the meantime think of these poor girls. We have a priest that praises early marriage from the pulpit and in person;’ we are in a traditional community that values marriage and children; and they are *still* getting pressure to delay marriage and children until after education and career! How can a woman outside of such a community have any thoughts of alternatives?

  24. Farm Boy

    Many who pursued education/career will marry later, but at about the same rate as those who married earlier

    Perhaps, but will they stay married? And, if they do, will they be happy?

  25. Aquinas Dad

    Denise,
    The dirty secret of the recent ‘women with college degrees are just as likely to marry as women without!’ is that the ‘gain’ is because fewer and fewer poor women are marrying at all. In reality, EVERYONE’S odds of marrying are down, it just dropped more sharply among women without college degrees. Same with the ‘women over 40 with degrees are least likely to divorce’. Now? Yes. Why? Because younger women with a high N are much more likely to divorce, overall marriage is down, etc. It isn’t a ‘gain’ by anyone, it is just the numbers are dropping faster for young, poor women.

  26. jack

    Aquinas Dad-

    You have touched on the true source of the problem. Fathers, the whitiest and knightiest of the breed, have corrupted their daughters’ thinking, and refused to hold them accountable.

    Of course, the feminist regime means that when dad tries to tell little Suzy not to sleep around, mom tells him to shut up, since Suzy needs to feel “empowered”.

  27. Mark Moncrieff

    Dear Mary

    This is an excellent post, I particularly agree with this:

    “young women make the terrible choices that they are making because they are told from an early age that these are actually good choices.”

    Who tells them anything different from the Feminist ideal?

    Their parents often without thinking tell them do well in school so you can get a good job, with no thought at all to where that will lead them.

    Their schools tells them the same thing, as do their friends and of course the media. It is something they learn from osmosis, it surrounds them totally and it is very harsh to blame them for not figuring out they are being lied too when no one they know has figured it out either.

    Liberalism is the philosophy of individualism, which means it is the philosophy of loneliness, because one leads directly to the other.

    Mark Moncrieff
    Upon Hope Blog – A Traditional Conservative Future

  28. Aquinas Dad

    Jack,
    Agreed. I have already told my sons they must know the fathers of a potential wife well before they ask me to meet him

  29. earl

    You forgot to mention this line she typed.

    “In my family I was always the rebellious one; I would often challenge my parents.”

    She made her decision on who she was going to be in life…now she must suffer the consequences.

    Ladies another reason why being rebellious isn’t in your best interest…no matter how many “you go grrll” you get.

  30. earl

    Unless she has a willful change of heart…she WILL be a spinster.

    It doesn’t matter if she nabs a fish…she will always be a bicycle.

  31. Farm Boy

    Same with the ‘women over 40 with degrees are least likely to divorce’. Now? Yes. Why? Because younger women with a high N are much more likely to divorce

    And divorce many times, they may. Thus “helping” the statistics for the 40+ with degrees.

  32. Cautiously Pessimistic

    I am feeling joy from her pain.

    I try not to feel joy over real suffering. That said, my sympathy for women like this is directly proportional to their willingness to admit they screwed up and take responsibility for unscrewing themselves (which means I don’t have much sympathy for women like this). They got taught wrong? They’ve got something in common to talk about with men, then. I don’t have much patience for men that want to sit and whine about how misled they were if they’re not going to take the next step and adjust their behavior when they figure out where they went wrong, and that goes double for women.

    And regardless of my sympathy, I’m not about to recommend some poor fool get married to them.

    Hey, what’s the difference between a lightbulb and a pregnant woman?

    You can unscrew the lightbulb.

  33. Opus

    The woman is fishing for sympathy and those are crocodile tears (if you ask me), but she is only thirty-two and the idea that she is too old to marry (if that is what she wants) is not plausible. Anyway, eighteen guys in – say- just under twenty years is hardly a tall order to achieve, and can be done whilst protesting essential monogamy. Sadly (as I have said before) I know some women who can do eighteen in as many days – if not less, and still think that a trip down the aisle dressed in white according to the Rights of the Established Church is theirs by right. Plenty of guys (whether ignorant of the N or not) will sign up for that.

    What is more amusing, I think, is the sight of these strong empowered corporate women ™ – of which there are many – neither ugly, nor fat, in fact well-presented and well paid, seeking sympathy for their plight, as if the local aging Alpha (or Beta) were to likewise demand sympathy for his inability to marry on his terms the woman of his choice. Not that I have ever seen much evidence that women desire marriage. I see that woman I was keen on when I was thirty and who prefaced her name with a Ms (as an anti-slut defence) is still doing so; then it hid her singledom, now her lack of marital status. Now that is worth laughing at.

  34. BlueSky DJ

    I too derive no pleasure from her pain. Her problems, however, are simply not my problems and I would derive no pleasure by making them mine.

    I find it curious that she makes $100,000 grand and wants someone who also makes $100,000. Are women led to believe men care about how much money they make?

  35. theshadowedknight

    It fills me with sorrow that such a thing should come to pass. I do not feel sorry for this woman. She defiled her bed; let her lay in it. Protect her from the consequences of her actions, and you validate those choices.

    The Shadowed Knight

  36. FuzzieWuzzie

    I thought that girls were supposed to be fish and boys were supposed to be bicycles according to Gloria Steinem.
    “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

  37. Farm Boy

    now her lack of marital status.

    So women really do want to get married…

    CL always said that it pained women pride and status wise not to be married.

    Guys don’t seem to have that specific issue.

  38. earl

    “I thought that girls were supposed to be fish and boys were supposed to be bicycles according to Gloria Steinem.”

    They always have it backwards.

    What do they call a woman that is a known slut…the town bicycle.

  39. FuzzieWuzzie

    “I am feeling joy from her pain.”
    The true measure of male resentment has yet to come to the fore. All this carosel riding while the guys are sitting on the shelf for much of their adult lives.
    She’s likely to find someone to tie the knot. When she does, the disparities in sexual experience are going to cause problems. To add to that, she is a self admitted serial monogamist. OOPS!

  40. Jenny

    I think it is sad in a way that there is something that she wants (marriage) and yet she can’t see how her actions are reducing the chance of her marrying. I don’t think her attitude would help her either. I don’t think it is fair to blame society either. She is a grown women and her actions have consequences. Maybe she doesn’t like the consequences but they were caused by her own actions so she can either accept that, change her ways, and live with it or she can live in denial and blame men for being too insecure to approach her or for not meeting her high standards. I wasn’t brought up as a Christian and my family aren’t religious at all but I was aware that sleeping around wasn’t a good idea.

    Wonder why her parents didn’t tackle her rebellious attitude when she was a child. x

  41. earl

    I’d say the ones that feel joy in her pain…just need a distraction from their own pains.

    I feel nothing because that isn’t a life I want to live. Her story is what normally happens when you live a life of disorder.

  42. Farm Boy

    Wonder why her parents didn’t tackle her rebellious attitude when she was a child.

    It is more difficult to tackle when the culture immerses her in it.

    Then there the “social workers need to get involved” angle.

  43. TimberStJames

    Aquinas Dad observed:
    “In the meantime think of these poor girls. … [W]e are in a traditional community that values marriage and children; and they are *still* getting pressure to delay marriage and children until after education and career!”

    Jack followed up:
    “You have touched on the true source of the problem. Fathers, the whitiest and knightiest of the breed, have corrupted their daughters’ thinking, and refused to hold them accountable.”

    Pretty much. When parents buy THIS deeply into the system, they forget that the system is buying deeply into them. I know, I know, they just want to help/protect/encourage their kids (daughters, in this instance) so they can achieve… stuff. Get a good job at least, right? Not that I’m blaming parents or their daughters—like I said, they have bought completely into a system that has also bought completely into them.

    What does that mean? In a nutshell, both the parents and daughters in this case have been inoculated against the right way to want things. They’ve been taught to build a personal brand (i.e., project an identity) instead of building a personal reputation (i.e., an actual history of actions that prove you are who you say you are).

    I know we all hate feminism, and God knows I support the patriarchy—but maybe we’re looking more at the logical outcome of narcissism here (not so much feminism). Narcissism says: “I need you to believe certain things about me.” Latter-day feminism seems more like vague safety-school misandry to me.

  44. Farm Boy

    My brother and sister were very repressed with their sexualities as a result,

    Clearly implied to be a bad thing.

    But then they “lapped her”.

  45. Guest

    I feel sorry for your daughters, SSM, since you think it is OK for their future husbands to “bitch-slap” them if they are “shrewish.” Do you really think they will go their whole married life without being shrewish?

    Thank goodness the DV laws are there to protect them.

  46. deti

    “I just wanted to make things clear I didn’t “sleep around.” Most of my relationships have been long term I have only been with 18 guys”

    In a nutshell, this sets out women’s attitudes toward sex today. Within it is wrapped up all the wrong teaching, all the entitlement mentality, all the warped thinking.

    “Only … 18 guys.”

    “ONLY 18 guys.”

    I know everyone at this site caught that. “ONLY 18 guys.” And that’s just what she’s willing to cop to; the actual number of penises she’s touched is likely higher by a factor of at least 2 or 3.

    The mentality is that it’s no big deal, it’s just shrugged off as nothing, as if she’s seen “only” 18 R-rated movies or been to “only” 18 states.

    Translated: “I’ve been with ONLY 18 guys. I’m not a slut, because for as many guys as I’ve f*cked, I know girls who have f*cked more guys than me. So I might be bad, but hey, at least I’m not as bad as some of my friends. But I’m done with that now. So where’s the six-figure earning, hawt, fine, nice husband I’m supposed to be given now?”

    Sadly, Elspeth and others are right – she’ll find someone willing to wife her up.

  47. Farm Boy

    Although, my parents have been supportive of me, it feels like they look at my brother and sister and are like, “this is what happens when you become whitewashed (embracing Western Culture) alone and unhappy.”

    She has her answer. Father knows best.

  48. deti

    Ladies:

    Sex is a big deal.

    Sex connects you to the men you have it with in ways you don’t fully understand — or want to understand.

  49. Jenny

    Is it fixable then? I mean most parents must realise that rebelliousness is something to tackle rather than praise but then just go along with what society classes are normal. Parents being proud to say they are more like friends to their children than actual parents ….

    My parents didn’t really have rules for me and I was never really rebellious. I have been a carer since I was 9 so I skipped that phase I think so I don’t understand the appeal of rebelling. x

  50. Roy

    “It is easy to laugh at a 32-year-old woman who has suffered such consequences for her bad choices. It becomes a lot less funny when you realize that she was trained to make, and rewarded for making, these bad choices at a time when she was too young and naive to understand what she was doing.” Pardon my french Mary, FUCK THEM. Good is what I say. I can remember my late teens and early twenties being stood up, given wrong numbers and flaked on by women like her. I was in a restaraunt a few months back and the place was not busy. I could hear the young waitresses talk to each other about guys that they string along. All of these young women were haviing a good laugh at the fact that they give men wrong numbers and string them along.

  51. dannyfrom504

    ” ‘….such as the fact that she earns north of $100,000 per year, works out, is in excellent shape, and would “take anyone as long as they were kind respectful. Around my income level and were fit.’ ”

    this is classic hamsterbation Sis. firstly a woman’s earning potential means SHIT to a man worth his salt. men gauge women’s attractiveness on youth, beauty and femininity. PERIOD. this women isn’t the first to swing this sad tale of spinsterism. as much as i hate to say it, at best she’ll land a soft beta, and will be a fuck toy to a true alpha (which she REALLY wants). her claim to “take on anyone……” is her hamster waving the white flag of the cobwebs collecting in her womb.

    i’ve had women like this flirt with me in my late 20′s (when they were in their early 20′s), and are now in their mid 30′s and coming on to me like gangbusters using the old, “i know how much you were into me before”. yeah, that was 8 YEARS AGO. lol. what do i want with a 1978 model when i can drive a 1991-2 with very little effort.

    sorry feminists, you made your choices, now live with the consequences. i don’t run game to be cool, or to get a notch; it’s a survival tool to navigate the SMP. if you aren’t going to shame me for killing a deer, than you can’t righteously shame me for running game (not you Sis, i’m saying in general).

  52. Farm Boy

    Like a serial killer that causually says he only murdered 18 people…you’d still want to be friends with that guy, right?

    It depends on whether or not you are female.

  53. deti

    “ But men are free to decide who is and is not worth their commitment. If someone ultimately does choose her, he would really be the only one to determine her suitability as his wife. Should she have slept around (which she certainly did)? Nope. But I wouldn’t confuse your desire for her to be punished for her errors with her actual marriage prospects.”

    Denise, what you describe is possible only with true repentance, and that with a humble and contrite heart.

    This woman in the reddit OP is whining that she’s entitled to a rich, hawt husband, preferably along the lines of the men who she had sex with 10 years before. She’s also shrugging off her past as if it should not and does not matter.

    This isn’t repentance. This is excusing, justifying, and entitlement. This is “my sins aren’t as bad as SOME other people I know”. This is “men do it too!”

  54. 8to12

    Schadenfreude: deriving pleasure from the misfortunes of others.

    You made a passing (negative) mention of it; the reddit thread if full of men expressing it towards this woman–even using the word. I’m starting to wonder if, from a societal benefits standpoint, if schadenfreude isn’t the better response.

    We know where expressing sympathy for her plight leads to: white knighting and man up and marry the slut responses. While this bails her out of her predicament, it also (1) encourages the behavior in other women who come to believe they will also be bailed out and (2) damages the (innocent) white-knight male who bails her out by marrying her.

    If I can use an analogy, across Europe at the end of WWII women who had “taken up” with the occupying German soldiers were drug into the streets, their heads were shaved, and they were ostracized by society. This wasn’t unique to WWII. It was common throughout history, because it took something that drastic to prevent women from switching sides when an invading army overran an area.

    Obviously we can’t (and shouldn’t) shave women’s heads and ostracism is a thing of the past in the modern America’s “anything goes” society, but schadenfreude may present a workable tool to discourage carousel riding. If a woman sees that at the end of her carousel riding days instead of sympathy she will experience derision, and that others will actually derive satisfaction from her predicament, then she might think twice about the path she goes down as a young woman.

    Is schadenfreude Christian? Probably not. Does it satisfy some sense of justice? Yes. The small kid in school who attends his school reunion and sees that the bully who tormented him in school is now fat, bald, and flipping burgers probably feels schadenfreude towards his tormentor, but it’s a “he got his just deserts” kind of schadenfreude–one based in a sense of justice has been served. The previously non-visible beta who the carousel rider now looks to to bail her out of her bad decisions also feels a type of justice based schadenfreude. It may not be “right” that he feels that way, but it’s hard to tell him he is wrong for feeling that way.

  55. FuzzieWuzzie

    A lot of the problems have to stem from a huge disparity in sexual experience. It wouldn’t be so bad if the guy had more experience, he could bring the gal along. When the gal has more experience, it’s a disaster waiting to happen because of the imposition on guys to “Just Get It”.

  56. Farm Boy

    Parents being proud to say they are more like friends to their children than actual parents ….

    It is better to be respected than liked. Because if you are not respected, in the long run you will not be liked either.

    so I skipped that phase I think so I don’t understand the appeal of rebelling

    My ex was a rebel in her youth. I asked her what she was rebelling against. She just mentioned amorphous stuff. Eventually she rebelled her way out of marriage. Now I am rich and she is poor. Sometimes there is justice. At least a little bit.

  57. Opus

    Guys do not go round claiming they slept with N – because they can’t remember the exact number, being unsure what to count and what not to count and thus this woman is being, shall we say, selective.

    Having now read what she said, it is hard to know what to think: she knew that Indian men won’t marry women over a certain age and yet (hypergamously) she must have noticed that white guys much as they enjoy exotic birds do not tend to marry them. Is it that in fact that she now realises that she does not really want a white man at all but would prefer an Indian. I was romantically linked with an Indian, but could not bring myself to do it (pretty though she was). She is now another aging single woman who thought that (in her case) a life in the law would put her in touch with aspiring guys and yet she missed out – sadly too, she has now also put on weight.

    At this point I am reminded of a guy I knew – a teacher – whose parents fostered a black child. Racist they were not, and to prove that he was not racist either, he married black bird. It proved disastrous and the last time I saw her she had gone all lesbian. I trust my erstwhile friend learned his lesson. – happily they were childless and soon divorced. Sometimes that is for the best.

  58. Farm Boy

    starting to wonder if, from a societal benefits standpoint, if schadenfreude isn’t the better response.

    You might be onto something there. It is unhealthy in the long run for a person using it, but do the benefits outweigh the costs? Little else seems to be working with respect to these women.

    I wonder how effective it is….

  59. Jenny

    “It is better to be respected than liked. Because if you are not respected, in the long run you will not be liked either.”

    Respect is important. One thing I don’t understand is why these women aren’t concerned about their reputation. My reputation is important to me – how I act reflects on my character and faith and upbringing.

    “My ex was a rebel in her youth. I asked her what she was rebelling against. She just mentioned amorphous stuff. Eventually she rebelled her way out of marriage. Now I am rich and she is poor. Sometimes there is justice. At least a little bit.”

    I think people just rebel for the sake of it! But if everyone is rebelling then really it is just normal behaviour. Kind of how tattoos went from prisoners and pirates to mainstream.

    Sounds like justice to me. x

  60. Jeremy

    Again, basic premise of Red Pill wisdom.

    Men are expendable.
    Women are perishable.

    Adapt your strategy to meet that reality, or suffer the consequences.

  61. earl

    “But if everyone is rebelling then really it is just normal behaviour.”

    Wrong.

    Sin is still wrong behavior if everybody does it, virtues are still right behavior even if nobody does it.

  62. earl

    “My ex was a rebel in her youth. I asked her what she was rebelling against. She just mentioned amorphous stuff.”

    Was that her way of saying…her stable submissive feminine side?

  63. earl

    Either way Farm Boy brings up a good point…

    If you meet a “lady” and she is proud of her rebellion…or makes a point of saying she has rebelled with no obvious attempt to see that is stupid…don’t give her a ring.

  64. OffTheCuff

    Schadenfreude is misplaced here, Opus nailed it. Spinsterhood is not inevitable.

    She can marry, easily, if she values marriage over previous tingle level. And she can have a kid, easily, since she is likely fertile, and has the option to do it without male investment – she as enough money to offset any possible fertility issues.

    She is just whining that one option (marriage to a conservative Indian, plus, a legit baby that he supports; the socially-approved one) is less likely now, since (gasp) she’d have to account for his preferences.

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  67. OffTheCuff

    PS.

    Bastiat Blogger has astutely described that what many women desire is “dual career/SAHM optionality” with not being boxed into either choice.

    That means all suitors must be prepared to bankroll a *possible* full SAHM lifestyle at her current consumption level. Hence, the requirement for her income plus extra for baby (none is really needed for him, as all would go to Mom and baby), ideally it would be 2-3x her income. Parity is slumming it.

    However, they cannot *expect* it, that would abusive and controlling – hence the key word optionality.

    The quickest way a make them go crazy is to remove that optionality (Very simple, say “No”), or indicate that men are in their rights to do so.

  68. Jana

    She’ll definitely marry, and her post is just a cry for attention. It doesn’t matter she’s Indian, she will most likely find a nice Jewish guy, her chances for an Indian are slim as those are usually already taken or are too conservative for her liking.

    PS: At 32, she’s not really a spinster, that’s a term for the 45+ crowd.

  69. alcestiseshtemoa

    No, actually, people (nearly all people) generally prefer to marry within their own race. White men in particular don’t often marry outside their own race, other than the increasing but still relatively minor trend of White men marrying Asian women.

    But she believed that she could have a series of sexual relationships with White men and that Progressivist fantasies would trump reality. Unfortunately, the reality is that she is no longer considered marriageable by Indian men because of her age, slutty past, and lack of wifely skills, but White men won’t marry her because she’s Indian, a fact she herself has come to realize too late.

    When you mean a small set of White guys marry Asian women, you mean East Asian women. It’s like pale skinned women (very high yellow, almost white), with petite bodies, small exotic eyes, long straight black hair and around average 100 IQ.

    They don’t mean brown-skinned Indian women (who are btw, also ASIAN, just South Asian) or even Islamic Middle Eastern women (who are also ASIAN, just Western Asian).

  70. Opus

    @Off the Cuff

    Gee, I wish I had written that! – it is what the Indian 32 year old is not saying that is significant here.

    Again – on the subject of inter-racial, I also recall that I was chased all over Helvelyn (a not particularly high mountain) by a Chinese bird, when I was nineteen, and yet again I could not bring myself to respond.

  71. earl

    Doesn’t it make you feel disgust that despite all her confessions…most people here say that she will definetly marry.

    What does that tell you about guys nowadays? Seems as though the blue pill is still strong in many.

  72. alcestiseshtemoa

    I’m lucky that my mother and her friends are such good matchmakers, that they’re finding the few Slavic Christian guys that I can marry (I’m half Eastern European btw, it’s just that my Black African father is so dark-skinned, that my skin tone is like a brown-skinned Indian girl with a more Caucasoid body/face and curly hair). Since redheaded white guys don’t tend to like me often (and they’re fewer in number), I’m taking what my mother is giving me.

  73. Chris

    Denise said.

    At this point in time, there is no longer an education penalty when it comes to marriage. Many who pursued education/career will marry later, but at about the same rate as those who married earlier–and among some demographics, at a higher rate than those with less education.

    Um, No.

    A few points.
    1. At 32, double her age and subtract seven to find the same SMV. That is older than I am: and I lived through the 70s fashions the first time.
    2. I know a buncha colleagues with PhDs. Those who have married are not married to PhDs but to tradesmen and engineers — and the more sensible ones actually have had periods of singleness. I have heard them (before marrying) talking about hiding what they do to get dates.
    And, before you say it is different. I live in a University Town that thinks Berkeley is not liberal enough. The town is safe Labour (think the most left wing democrat you can find).
    3. As a man within their real target range, the answer is “meh”. At this age youth is gone, and the question is how well you maintain yourself. Personally, the person who has been single and faithful in raising their kids over many years is more attractive than a single woman who has had a partner every year. Because I’m in a different market: I’m wanting a wife, not a mistress.

    This woman will hold all in contempt. Unless she repents, she is unmanageable and will drive any husband to chumpdom and mutual misery.

  74. Chris

    Alcest, Many white guys at the top end do not care what skin colour you are… they care about how you fit into a UMC lifestyle.
    Think Angelina Jolie in Mr and Mrs Smith or as Evelyn Salk, rather than in Gone in 60 seconds. She’s a decade younger in the Nic Cage movie (gone in 50 seconds) but dresses street: in Salth she’s pusing the maxiumu age hollywood will let a woman be a star but dresses and acts UMC.

    High status and exotic == high status and domestic. Low status: meh. And it’s not about qualifications, girl.

    I don’t talk much about the GF: but, like my wife, she’s Chinese: I’m white. (And yes, I have had white GFs previously: In NZ Asian (Chinese , Japanese and Korean) is merging with white. It’s who she is, not the skin colour).

  75. alcestiseshtemoa

    I just think the entire baffled spinster scenario was surely obvious from the beginning. Indian guys wouldn’t marry her (thanks to sexual history and other attributes) and white guys treated her like an exotic sex toy. How couldn’t she see that coming?

  76. Aquinas Dad

    Jenny,
    Of course rebellion is fixable. If stopped early it is simple to fix.
    Ever hear the phrase ‘imporant things are simple, simple things are hard’?
    Yeah

  77. Just Saying

    Quote from her post: “I was always just some exotic fun.”

    Yep. I love Indian women for this reason, also Black, Asian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. I am taboo and they eat it up, like all women. All women enjoy doing what they shouldn’t – cheating, you name it. They love it – as long as they don’t have to pay. But women always have to pay to play eventually – only men get to take a pass because we are MEN and women WANT a man that does what he can get away with. Which is why we enjoy the women that think they can act like a guy. They are fun times…

    “I have only been with 18 guys”

    Hmmm… She admits to 18 – so the number is more like 54… I know a “porn” actress that was with less than her admitted number of 18. (Of course today almost all women are “porn” actresses – just usually not paid for it. She was in one shoot – but the number doesn’t matter – once a porn-slut always a porn-slut.) Technically, I have several long term relationships going on today – I’ve been seeing several women for more than a couple of years simultaneously – the number is hard to pin down since months can go by between hook-ups. They are just “non-exclusive” long term relationships – at least for me. I demand of some of them that they only see me – they get special access for that, like seeing me during the holidays and getting gifts. The others – they have boyfriends and don’t want to spend it with anyone other than the guy that they have their hooks into. That works well for me and them. So she doesn’t say how many of those admitted 18 were at the same time – probably more than a few. :)

    Now, this woman will probably end up married making some guy miserable because she’ll blame him for not having what she wants – but there are a LOT of guys out there that don’t mind being cuckolded – heck, I live off those guys to supply me with women. Those guys are willing to take the cast offs and dreggs. More power to them if they are happy with that life. Letters like hers are useless – one of the reasons I get so many young women in my bed is they don’t think things through – it’s Friday, and they are on vacation, this sex doesn’t count since I’ll never see him again. That is how women think – don’t fault them for it – enjoy them, but never make the mistake of saddling yourself with one. Most women are cheap and easy – use them like that. (When you find one that isn’t, don’t let her get away. Just remember, a lot of women will decide to “put that life behind her” when they graduate from college or move to a different city. So if she’s in her 20′s or older – she’s probably lying A LOT. Trust – but verify – run a full background check on her – you’ll be surprised what turns up.)

    Oh, and since I make the rules – don’t look for consistency – sometimes I just want to slip it to that sweet little piece, so anything goes till I’ve succeeded and getting her. That usually qualifies for only the ones with the absolute best wrapping and when they are young – at 32, this one is well past her prime…. But then, I’m just saying…

  78. deti

    Alcest:

    The 32 YO Indian girl in the OP couldn’t see it coming for the same reason a 23 year old beta niceguy chump can’t get a date

    For the same reason a 42 year old average frustrated married chump hears “I love you but I’m not in love with you” followed by frivorce papers.

    Because no one trained any of them any other way. Because no one told any of them the truth.

  79. FuzzieWuzzie

    Earl, she will find someone because of the scacity mentality that has been beaten into men. The whole point of her post is that she is having to come to terms with her abundance mentality converting to scarcity. That must be the essence of “hitting the wall”.
    BTW, I think she is Sihk, Vox’s post mentioned “Temple”.

  80. Opus

    I think it might be useful to remind ourselves where the word Spinster comes from and what it means: It refers to an occupation (Spinning – the 18th century equivalent of a Corporate Cubicle) taken up by women who for whatever reason did not marry. The title was not used for women under the age of thirty-eight. It was recognised that over that age marriage was most unlikely.

    The last time I was in L.A. (for a week) I hooked up with a married Philipino (I had forgotten that).

  81. unsigma

    She’ll get married. No doubts about it. She’ll find a nice churchian schlub of a white guy who will live with her being disappointed in him and they will live in a state of holy discontentment like most of us.

    She is online complaining because she was jarred awake by slamming into the wall. She came face to face with reality and now she is looking at HER red pill.

  82. FuzzieWuzzie

    I’ve been thinking about how the world will look if these social conditions persist for another twenty years. The majority of people over fifty never married?

  83. feministhater

    Tons of Indian women like these when I was a university. I don’t exactly know why, but they were all looking for white guys. Meh, some were extremely pretty, long black hair, feminine physique but their accents were horrendous. Anyway, it always ends up the same. They will date and sleep with many a white dolt but end up marrying one of dad’s business partners.

  84. Farm Boy

    The majority of people over fifty never married?

    Women, who do to their hypergamy, view most men as deplorable losers.

    Men, who view women as worthless sluts.

    Let us hope it never comes to this. Who needs big brother, when we have each other?

  85. Stg58/Animal Mother

    If she is Sikh, she is in a league above your average Indian woman. The Sikh Punjabi women are really hot, due to the Alexander the Great gene injection. She probably can get most any man she wants still, amf explains why men found her an exotic treasure.

    All the hottest indian female movie stars are Sikh or Christian.

  86. masonkramer

    I checked off the box marked Indian Desi a while back. Then I did it again a few years later. I never lied or even made an attempt to mislead about my intentions. In each case, just like with pretty much every other girl, I took them out for a few dates and then pulled them in for a kiss and they melted like butter. I think their problem is that they tend to assume that a sexual relationship means a marriage track. White girls will, as a rule, preempt me with “I’m not looking for marriage right now” (or, “I don’t know what I’m looking for”) before I even get a chance to say it. (It’s actually depressing, now that I am a bit older and wiser and would actually like to settle down – and also because, after studying the androsphere, I see how this attitude tends to work out badly for both women and men. It would be better for boys and girls, and that includes me, if girls were in the habit of forcing boys into marriage early and then the girls actually stuck with it for life. But, the ball is really in the girls’ court on that issue. Even if I would actually like to marry, the dynamic only makes sense if the woman is pushing me into it. If I push her into it, that would just be asking for disaster.)

    Anyway, UMC white girls will run away from the word “marriage” so fast that they’ll skip the door and crash through the wall, leaving a Looney-Toons style hole in it, before, oh, say, 28 years old. But Indian Desi girls are “traditionally” minded except for the whole, “I’m your equal, you’re not the boss of me” thing. Indian girls don’t say anything about marriage, deliberately keep the relationship ambiguous, and then three or six months in, start talking about how to get their parents to accept a white husband. Like, even before you talk about marriage. It’s like they’ve got to sink the guilt hooks deep enough so that you can’t escape.

    In other words, they tend to suffer from particularly bad cases of a la carte feminism. Their parents also hate white guys, absolutely detest white guys, as a rule, and Indian children have extremely close relationships with their parents, so that matters even more than it does for whites.

  87. Stg58/Animal Mother

    One of my wife’s Desi friends dated this preppy idiot white guy for a while. She was so crazy about him she could barely stand up straight around him. She finally realized he wasn’t good for her and married a another white guy. Her last name went from Bhatia to Smith. I have no idea what her parents think.

  88. pb

    ” young women make the terrible choices that they are making because they are told from an early age that these are actually good choices.”

    I can believe this with respect to the careerism, but I think she deserves much of the blame for her promiscuity, violating the law written in her heart and all that.

  89. masonkramer

    Listen. The problem is simple and it’s the been the same way for thousands of years. Girls’ MMV tops out well before they have the breadth of life experience necessary to _know_ when to sell. It’s just like Mary said in the OP. What’s changed recently is that now their parents also don’t seem to have the wisdom, either. Or in some sad cases, such as with traditional Indian parents fresh off the boat, the parents still have the cultural wisdom, but they don’t have the support of the law and of society that is required to pressure wayward young things into making the best possible match. So now we are all empowered to make bad choices and we’re doing it at a rapid clip.

    Young people just ain’t got no sense. No reason to get so righteous about it.

  90. Looking Glass

    @Stg58:

    It might have taken a few years before they talked again.

    On the side topic as a whole:

    At some level, one of the interesting bits about being a WASP male is that we love the Lord’s great creation of beautiful Women all over the planet. There are literally millions of beautiful Women, and we love that part about this planet.

    The flip side is, unless you’re willing to “go Native”, you don’t really think about marrying any of them. The growing exception is with Northeast Asian Women (Japan, Korea, Northeast China & what used to be Manchuria), but, amazingly enough, those cultural groups effectively view themselves as “white”. (Massively different context within their own cultures, but still true)

    It does explain one of the differential problems for non-White Men & Women inside a Western SMP. The White Men & non-White Women have higher relativistic SMV, yet the non-White Women have significantly lower MMV.

  91. masonkramer

    MMMMmmm. We sure do love the Lord’s creations. The Lord’s creations love us back, too, and thank Him for that. I’m not a WASP, though, I’m Jewish American Man (I don’t know, can we make that an acronym?).

    As far as going native, well. Yeah, you nailed it. basically, Japanese, Han Chinese, or Korean would be most likely.

  92. Bike Bubba

    Being an engineer, I’ve worked with a significant number of Indians–there are a TON of great engineers from there–and my guess is that her prospects are grim. Due to promiscuity with white men, she’s going to be a hard sell in Indian culture, religious or not. Being Indian and nominally observant in (I’d guess) Hinduism, she’s going to be a hard sell among other Angelinos of any race or religion, and being in LA, she’s in a culture that simply does not value marriage at all, even in the best circumstances.

    Don’t know exactly what I’d tell her but “repent and come to Christ.” Even that is, of course, no guarantee of a loving husband, but at least it’s the path out of where she’s been.

  93. Bike Bubba

    “The last time I was in L.A. (for a week) I hooked up with a married Philipino (I had forgotten that).”

    I had no idea Opus was gay. (a female from the Phillipines would be a Philipina)

    (sorry, Opus, just couldn’t resist) :^)

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  95. Opus

    She’s in a difficult position (irrespective of her N count – and ‘white’ ways): my parents were not of the same xtian religion and the problems that caused (and the continuing reverberations) are such that very different religions never mind culture make for a very bumpy ride. Even so, with a billion and a quarter Indians as well as the expat Indians she surely should not find it too hard to find just one Indian guy keen to Man-Up.

  96. Farm Boy

    We have a pile of these kinds of ladies at work. There was a time when they were the top of their class, now they are just middling walk past types, still look good, but have nothing to offer any man seeking a wife and hopefully children

    Did they ever have anything to offer? Even then?

    I was totally shocked when in my 20s as to how totally poor “mother material” the women around me were. I was expected to develop my skills such that I could bring home the bacon, but with the women? They were just too awesome too prepare for their primary biological function.

  97. Farm Boy

    At 32, she’s not really a spinster, that’s a term for the 45+ crowd.

    OK. How about in her case, we label her as “Divorcee in Training”? A DIT, if you will.

  98. Novaseeker

    The thing is, she won’t really have a hard time finding someone to marry her who is suitable, although if she goes past 35 or so the pickings will get slimmer. I’ve known quite a few women who married in the mid-30s area and while I am not privy to their Ns, we can assume that they were not particularly low. There is very little penalty for this, unless the woman was a complete ho skank, and in 2013 18 is not at that level. It does constitute “sleeping around”, but it isn’t at the ho/skank level (likely that’s tripped somewhere around 50 or more, depending on age). If she does the customary and cuts it in half to 9 when she discloses it, most men who are in the market for her at 32 won’t bat an eyelash at that.

    Also, people in that SES have low divorce rates.

    The revenge fantasy doesn’t really work against people who are highly educated — the system we have pretty much works for them because they are the only ones who have enough “there” there to make this work — in other words, they still bring a lot to the table as a practical matter in a marriage even if they were not anything close to being chaste in their 20s. They marry later, yes, and have a relatively small number of kids, but they mostly do marry and they have a rather low divorce rate. Yep, many women in this group are having their cake and eating it — that’s life. Not much vengeance there, if that’s what you’re looking for.

    The real adverse impacts come lower on the SES totem pole, where it’s disastrous. Even a bit lower — as in some education, but not post-grad/professional, lower incomes. When you get to the two advanced degree professionals category, marriage rates are high, divorce rates are low, and chastity rates are not high either pre-marriage (although almost no people in this category are ho/skank level — they do engage in serial monogamy with gusto prior to marrying, however).

  99. Bucho

    “I was totally shocked when in my 20s as to how totally poor “mother material” the women around me were.” – Farm Boy

    Yeah, isn’t it crazy how a lot of these single women can’t cook anymore? Not something basic to feed a family? I’ve heard the whole. “I can make a mean, microwave mac & cheese dinner” proudly proclaimed numerous times.

  100. anonymous_ng

    @FH, to borrow from that old Wendy’s commercial, Whores are whores. If that’s all you’ve got to choose from, you might as well take the one pulling in six figures, except you need to move to Texas cause the divorce laws are much more man friendly there.

  101. Farm Boy

    the system we have pretty much works for them because they are the only ones who have enough “there” there to make this work

    But even if they do not divorce, are they happy together?

  102. Farm Boy

    Bucho,

    It is not a question of just cooking. I meant it literally, “Would these woman have the total package needed to raise children well”?

  103. Lady Just Saying

    If I was going to lie, I sure wouldn’t say 18 — so maybe she at least is letting you know right up front the truth of her past. I do know a woman who is N (100 or so) and married and never divorced so maybe she will too. Just depends on how picky she is I suppose and luck in who she meets.

  104. FuzzieWuzzie

    “But even if they do not divorce, are they hppy together?” They’re fulfilling social expectations, so, yes, considering they would be unhappier otherwise.
    It does pain me to bow to Nova’s wisdom. There should be consequences.

  105. Novaseeker

    Wow Nova, seems you do love your UMC hoes, are you married to one of these fab people?

    No, my ex and I were virgins before we married, and I am not married. I am merely observing what I see. There is no real damage in the UMC right now. It’s the only SES that the current system “works” for.

  106. Novaseeker

    But even if they do not divorce, are they happy together?

    It really varies. My own observation is that some are happier than others. Very few are jumping for joy 24/7, but that’s the case for all marriages. Still, they don’t divorce at high rates, so they are pretty good at sucking down even a marriage that doesn’t have them perpetually jumping for joy, it would seem. There are of course, divorces, but they’re at a low rate, something like 15-18%.

    If I was going to lie, I sure wouldn’t say 18 — so maybe she at least is letting you know right up front the truth of her past.

    It could be. I mean she is 32. So if she started having sex at the customary 16 (customary in our culture), that means she’s been sexually active for 16 years. Is sex with one guy per year really that high a number given our sexual mores? I don’t think so. I mean, for people like us who value chastity, it blows the roof off the house, so to speak, but for seculars who embrace the current culture, sex with one guy per year, plus one or two, isn’t something that sounds extreme.

    Of course, it almost certainly wasn’t split up that way — likely 2 or 3 in one year, then one for a year and half and so on. But still over 16 years in this culture unless someone is actively embracing some kind of chastity isn’t really a very large number.

  107. Looking Glass

    @Novaseeker:

    It’s pretty much still at the same divorce rate as when the UMC & UC passed “divorce reform”. They don’t pay the penalties for their choices, as once you had money, Lawyers could invent anything they needed anyway.

    But, like all of the rest of the “help” from Progressives, the middle & lower classes pay in destruction. I sometimes wonder if being “hated”, as Christ said, isn’t just outright better. Considering the “love” of most of the world bestows upon others, I think hatred is a better place to be.

  108. Novaseeker

    It’s pretty much still at the same divorce rate as when the UMC & UC passed “divorce reform”. They don’t pay the penalties for their choices, as once you had money, Lawyers could invent anything they needed anyway.

    Right. Basically it made those among them who wanted to divorce be able to do so more easily and less traumatically (i.e., without having to prove adultery or abuse or cruelty or what have you), but after the immediate “pent up demand” spike in divorce rates in the 1970s and early 80s, their rates settled back down — but the damage to the rest of the demographic has been intense and sustained since then.

  109. lovelyleblanc7

    While I’m not surprised of the consequences of her actions. I still do feel bad for her. I can revel in someone’s pain.
    Something tells me though that she wasn’t told these things were good choices from her family. I think she is actually to blame for this. She did mention that she was the rebellious one in her family. That is her problem. She did not honor her parents like her siblings did. A girl who does not honor her parents and respect her father, will not submit to her husband.
    I think her parents tried to give her wise counsel and she foolishly ignored their instructions and listened to her peers instead…who are all now married it seems.

    @Sunsinemary: Concerning race, in some ways you are correct. My great-grandfather (a white french man) was very wealthy and ended up marrying a Chinese lady (my great grand-mother) who was first his maid. This goes to show that men don’t care about how much money a girl makes, as long as she is not a gold digger. For some reason, women think having a high status job will attract men. I can see it as being a plus but not the main reason of attraction.

    My sister married a white guy, but I would be very reluctant if I was to court a white man. Nothing against white men, but all the white men in my family (save for my great-grandfather) all cheated on their wives. I know not all white men are like that, but that is the stigma that my mom carries with white men because of that. Actually, my mom would prefer for me to marry an Asian man! haha

    I have no racial preference, but it makes sense that most people would prefer to marry in their race. Most people stick with what is comfortable for them. Anyways, in short, I think a reluctance with dating outside of someone’s race is due to stereotypes more so than discrimination.

  110. Farm Boy

    Just because the UMC seems to be “getting away” with it, does not mean that there is not a price to be paid within that class.

    An alpha widow is an alpha widow. Messed up minds are messed up minds.

  111. Bike Bubba

    What is “SES”?

    My experience with Indians is that, as Novaseeker notes, they not only have a low divorce rate, but also seem pretty happy in their marriages. I tend to attribute this to the fact that sometimes one’s parents can see through a potential suitor in a way that a young lady (or gentleman) cannot.

    Suffice it to say that I was glad for family members and friends who nudged my wife and I towards marriage, seeing what the love-lorn might not. And for the same reason, I cringe for this young lady’s prospects–imagine her meeting someone nice, and parents and friends speak up “you know she’s been around a bit, right?” I do not envy her.

  112. anonymous_ng

    @Farm Boy, An alpha widow is an alpha widow. Messed up minds are messed up minds.

    It may be that there are fewer alpha widows at the top because relatively speaking, at the top are fewer betas. Sure, you screwed the football team, but married a top Wall Street banker, or the son of a senator.

  113. Cail Corishev

    Is sex with one guy per year really that high a number given our sexual mores? I don’t think so. — Novaseeker

    Unfortunately true. Just watch today’s TV shows, from which people are taking their cues. I think the newest show I’ve watched is Big Bang Theory, which I stopped after the first couple seasons. Now, this is about four guys who are supposed to be huge nerds. Only one is reasonably normal; one seems so weird and asexual that the others speculate he might reproduce through budding, another can’t speak in the presence of women unless he’s drunk, and the last has a trying-way-to-hard Lothario act going on. Overall, they were presented as utterly helpless with women. And yet, in the first season, which I guess represented one year, three of them had sex, and I think at least one of them was with two different women. So they averaged about one woman per year per guy that season.

    Contrast that with Magnum p.i. He was played by Tom Selleck, who pretty much dominated the “Sexiest Man…” awards at the time, and he drove around in a red convertible Ferrari and had a mansion to work with. Yet he slept with a maximum (a couple of them are questionable) of six women in eight seasons, and one of those was actually his wife — a worse success rate than the BBT nerds. But that was 30 years ago. Things have changed. If a TV character now — male or female — has a dry spell of more than a few months, it’s treated as a major problem.

    The worst blow was probably the movie Pretty Woman: You can be an actual prostitute, but some day a rich, handsome man will come along and love you for your specialness and take you away from all that.

  114. Matthew King

    Mrs. Sunshine Mary wrote:

    I think she should suffer the natural consequences of her decisions so that other young women may see and learn from her errors, but I take no pleasure in the fact that she will have this lot in life.

    You are swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Christians believe that God’s mercy is greater than our vengeful, spiteful, finite understanding of justice, and we have to be the salesmen for that always unpopular and improbable idea.

    Does that mean “white knight” or “marry up” or “beta supplicate” or otherwise reward her for her sin? Not in the least. But you above all let her know that there is salvation for her if she “go[es] and sin[s] no more.”

    We are the people of John 8 in all its complexity.

    Matt

  115. archerwfisher

    “Throughout my whole life I never really dated any Indian guys; I exclusively dated white guys. However now I realize more than ever that the guys I dated never really took me seriously. They never really viewed me as someone they would eventually marry. I was always just some exotic fun. This part was definitely a realization that has hurt me to the core.”

    I almost laughed out loud at this part. Did this woman really think that white guys are all up for marrying *indian* women? I mean, Cherokee women or the like, sure, but India indian?

    Hells no. I know indian men are pretty much obsessed with white women and loathe white guys, but it does not go the other way around. She wants a white guy, she better find a real life version of Leonard from Big Bang Theory. In the dating hierarchy for white guys, I’m pretty sure that Indian women are *well* below even black women.

  116. Sir_Chancealot

    SSM is right. These young girls are not being told that sleeping around makes it less likely to find a quality husband.

    I was talking with a young women (23 or 24 at the time), and I told her that if she kept sleeping around, it would hurt her chances. She got all indignant, and went and talked to another guy that was her age. He said “I agree with (Sir_Chancealot). If you sleep around, you aren’t going to find a good husband.”

    She was stunned, because no one had ever told her this before. I also told her that she only had about 3 or 4 years to go before it would start getting harder to get a guy to marry her. She still doesn’t believe that.

  117. earl

    @ Matt King…

    She said NATURAL consequences.

    Jesus told the woman to not sin anymore…he never said anything about the fact that she would get rewarded with a marriage as a result.

  118. earl

    “She was stunned, because no one had ever told her this before. I also told her that she only had about 3 or 4 years to go before it would start getting harder to get a guy to marry her. She still doesn’t believe that.”

    You live in a sewer your whole life…it’s sometimes hard to believe there’s a cleaner place to live.

  119. Stg58/Animal Mother

    Matthew King always adds a certain, I don’t know, “Je ne sais quois” to the proceedings.

  120. Farm Boy

    The worst blow was probably the movie Pretty Woman: You can be an actual prostitute, but some day a rich, handsome man will come along and love you for your specialness and take you away from all that.

    Then when you get too old for such roles you do EPL

  121. Anonymous Reader

    CC
    The worst blow was probably the movie Pretty Woman: You can be an actual prostitute, but some day a rich, handsome man will come along and love you for your specialness and take you away from all that.

    I remember when Pretty Disgusting Woman came out. A friend of mine was nagged into going to it, one weekend day. He said the worst part for him was the shopping scene, mainly because of the near-orgasmic squeal/cheer/sight reaction in the mostly female audience.

  122. alcestiseshtemoa

    archerwfisher

    December 30, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    “Throughout my whole life I never really dated any Indian guys; I exclusively dated white guys. However now I realize more than ever that the guys I dated never really took me seriously. They never really viewed me as someone they would eventually marry. I was always just some exotic fun. This part was definitely a realization that has hurt me to the core.”

    I almost laughed out loud at this part. Did this woman really think that white guys are all up for marrying *indian* women? I mean, Cherokee women or the like, sure, but India indian?

    Hells no. I know indian men are pretty much obsessed with white women and loathe white guys, but it does not go the other way around. She wants a white guy, she better find a real life version of Leonard from Big Bang Theory. In the dating hierarchy for white guys, I’m pretty sure that Indian women are *well* below even black women.

    This is utterly ridiculous. Amerindians are generally ugly and low-status. On the other hand, olive-skinned Indian women from North India to brown-skinned from South India, can be quite cultured, attractive and nice in demeanor. They have nice families and friends. How on earth are Indian women below black women again? I think you’re talking about African-American types (which aren’t usual for the black communities around the world, I’m not this guy isn’t talking about some bald black woman from Sudan who is literally coal-black skinned, the darkest brown shade imaginable).

  123. alcestiseshtemoa

    Farm Boy

    December 30, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    The UMC guys may have money and power, but do they deliver the goods in bed like that bad boy did?

    I don’t know but I’m guessing a yes?

  124. Farm Boy

    He said the worst part for him was the shopping scene, mainly because of the near-orgasmic squeal/cheer/sight reaction in the mostly female audience.

    Women view buying fancy clothes and stuff as an investment, even if they do not realize it. “If I buy fancier and pretiier clothes, I can get a better guy, who will give me more stuff”.

    I wonder what the expected return on investment in these cases are…

  125. Stg58/Animal Mother

    Wait. Are we talking Pretty Woman that came out in theatres or the real version by Dave Chappelle?

  126. earl

    18 is still a high number even if the average is 50.

    Last I checked the percentages and risks on the slut scale for stable marriages haven’t changed. 18 is just as high of risk as 50.

  127. FuzzieWuzzie

    Alcest, it’s not true now but, in the 19th century a lot of white and black men were taken in by American Indians. Even Sam Houston took refuge with the Cherokee after he left Tennessee and before he moved on to Texas. Essentially, the Indians offered a fresh start in life. A lot of men took Indian women to wife.

  128. alcestiseshtemoa

    Yes, the 18 number itself is objectively high, but relatively “low” in some hedonist social circles if one compares to say, a woman who has slept with 50 guys. Go figure.

  129. Farm Boy

    The UMC guys may have money and power, but do they deliver the goods in bed like that bad boy did?

    I don’t know but I’m guessing a yes?

    Only sometimes. Remember that “Tingles Uber Alles”. So are there alpha widows in the UMC?

  130. FuzzieWuzzie

    Farm Boy, at a guess, “Tingles Ueber Alles” has no respect for distinctions of class. However, property loss is a strong disincentive for bad behavior.

  131. FuzzieWuzzie

    Earlier today, I was musing that “Man up and marry the sluts” might work given that both boys and girls went through re-education. Joseph of Jackson could straighten the boys out. Let Sarah’s Daughter have at the girls.
    I am so mean!

    However, if there are no consequences for women’s behavior, this won’t get off the ground.

  132. Pingback: Possibly the worst advice for young women in the whole history of the internet. | Sunshine Mary

  133. tz2026

    A white knight would be in grave danger. She isn’t very repentant. She sounds like she doesn’t really regret anything, only “was mistaken”. No, your parents told you not to sleep around. You rebeled. You decided to be the prodigal daughter. You can’t fix it with just regrets.

    A white knight would just encourage her.

  134. archerwfisher

    “This is utterly ridiculous. Amerindians are generally ugly and low-status. On the other hand, olive-skinned Indian women from North India to brown-skinned from South India, can be quite cultured, attractive and nice in demeanor. They have nice families and friends. How on earth are Indian women below black women again? I think you’re talking about African-American types (which aren’t usual for the black communities around the world, I’m not this guy isn’t talking about some bald black woman from Sudan who is literally coal-black skinned, the darkest brown shade imaginable).”

    I said Cherokee, I’ve seen some gorgeous half cherokee women, haha. IDK about other tribes.

    And I’m sure India Indians are nice, have nice friends, etc.

    But seriously–Indians. Not happening outside of movies about nerds. Just, eww. Try googling it and finding me some rates. There’s a reason why you hear about Russian mail order brides, Hong Kong, Phillipines, Russian, Ukrainian, but you will never ever hear about Indian mail order brides unless you now go google that phrase.

    And man, I have met some hot Russian/Ukrainian/Moldovan girls, lmao. I have never met a cute/hot/attractive India Indian girl.

  135. Ceer

    She ONLY had sex with 18 guys… right. What a catch!

    I have no sympathy. After making the choice to learn to be a good husband (during my blue pill days), I was baffled about how women wouldn’t see me as marriage material. In the meantime, she’s off boffing random men she’s having “relationships” with. Why on earth would I WANT her now that she’d compare my dick size to the previous 18 schlubs? I may be a good man, but I refuse to compete with that much baggage.

    The good news is she’s strong, independent, and can carry all that baggage by herself. She can have fun with that.

  136. Matthew King

    Mr. Earl wrote:

    She said NATURAL consequences. Jesus told the woman to not sin anymore. He never said anything about the fact that she would get rewarded with a marriage as a result.

    Getting warmer, but still not on fire for the Lord.

    We are all “rewarded” by a grace unmeritable and strictly unjust, however not for our sins but rather despite them. What do you know about what this woman deserves? Where were you at the foundation of the universe? Our job is to extend the widest path to the most wretched soul farthest from God.

    “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you” (Matt 6:33). It’s not fair. In fact it is quite an impossible thing. But such is God’s mercy — the impossible made possible.

    God does not punish. We punish ourselves. We do not need to add to her anguish as a crude means of attempted persuasion. We simply have to make clear that there is an alternative, and though her sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool (Isa 1:18). For she will have washed her robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Rev 4:17).

    That’s what makes the “Go and sin no more” conclusion the key to the entire puzzle. By dying to herself and living in Christ she will no longer understand marriage as a “reward,” but something like the opposite: an unmerited pardon, a pure gift no creature deserves. We are all adulteresses before God.

    None of us could ever merit salvation, and so we live reborn in the saving knowledge that we once squandered our gift and laughed at God’s mercy. Everything that survived her sin is a bonus, and God is bountiful! It is her new consciousness of sin as sin that allows her (and all of us) to shed the absurd position of presumption and entitlement and reward, and allows her to “go and” live a life of unalloyed gratitude. The thought of a subsequent marriage as happy consequence for a sinful past will mortify a woman in the light of grace. If she understands rightly, she is saved. If she thinks she outwitted God’s justice, she has gone the way of death.

    Either way, earthly punishment is lost on her. Such are the weapons of the world, more about slaking our thirst for justice on our own terms than it is about delivering a soul to Christ.

    We cannot scour her soul into shape by advocating the “natural consequences” of sin. We would all be condemned were that the prevailing criterion.

    LORD POLONIUS: My lord, I will use them according to their desert.

    HAMLET: God’s bodykins, man, much better: use every man
    after his desert, and who should ‘scape whipping?

    Use them after your own honor and dignity: the less
    they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty.

    But we can point her to where the bread of life is found in all its sweetness. “Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him” (Ps 34:8).

    O felix culpa!

    Matt

  137. Poder

    Some thoughts:

    1. This woman will still likely get married. Although the statistics show that women are getting married at later ages, almost all women still get married. The number of spinsters are increasing but they are still the exception, not the rule. She just won’t have as good of a husband she could’ve had if she had been search 10 years earlier.

    2. It is easy to hide the number of sex partners she has had. She lives in L.A., a big city where people can be anonymous. She, like most women, can lie about it. And depending how trivial she thinks it is (or how much of a sociopath she is), it won’t cause her much guilt. Most men with red pill knowledge, game knowledge or knowledge of the modern SMP will know that she has been on the carousel. But there are a lot of naïve men out here who will accept her lie at face value.

    3. As far as marriage, she has two options: a) lower her standards and get married, b) maintain her standards and remain a spinster. The kind of guy she is hoping to marry has so many option that he wouldn’t need to consider a woman like her.

    My prediction is, after a period of panic and rushing, she gets married within the next five years to a guy (probably to a white guy, but I could see her married to an Indian man) who is much lower status than the guy she envisioned herself marrying. Most likely a nice guy beta or an unemployed loser. Obviously, she’ll resent this man and not really love him. She will probably have less children that she anticipated having and may not have children at all since she waited so late. She will likely be unhappy and eventually divorce him or stay in the marriage since she feels she can’t find anyone else and remain unhappy.

    All in all, I think that is a fair punishment.

  138. RichardP

    The baffled spinster = mightdiealone13 – from here:

    http://www.reddit.com/user/mightdiealone13?count=26&before=t1_ce2l8k6

    She has a four-year degree, is a business analyst, and earns about 105,000 per year. If this is true, it means she has been taught how to think, and does reasonably well at it. She acknowledges that she needs an advanced degree to advance beyond where she is in her career, and says she plans to pursue that advanced degree soon.

    What follows is a collection of her responses from various places where she posted her “story” (from the link given above). There is some serious wisdom at tht link for young daughters beginning to contemplate how they should fashion their 20′s.

    “I know I can’t have it all. I posted here because I want to know what to do from here.”

    “I do realize that I will have to settle. My problem is now that Indian guys won’t even think of dating me seriously. And white guys don’t consider me someone they would marry because I am not white.”

    “How much solace can you take in career and hobbies? It’s such a hollow thing to live for in my opinion. I want my life to be more than that.”

    “I am not trying to bitch but the lifestyle I lived was exactly the same that my other friends did. The only difference was that their boyfriends actually proposed to them. I was never a “bitch.” My number is actually lower than some of my friends who were in the 30s and 40s who got married in their 20s.”

    “I made almost all the same life choices my white friends made. I am not less attractive than them the only differentiating aspect was that I am Indian. I know it’s me. If I followed my parent’s path than I’d be like my sister happily married with a caring husband and children.”

    “the wedding, the clothes, the ceremonies, the respect. ”

    Prodigal daughter trying to get home for a do-over. Unfortunately, there is no certain road between here and there. Note the last quote here. She wants what comes only from following her parents advice, but she wants to get it “her way”. Some sorta disconnect in that way of thinking – as she is finding out.

    Again, valuable confessions at the link, if you have time to read through it.

  139. an observer

    Let her bafflement be not a cause for joy but an example for others.

    Good church girls do the same and expect to still get married with the fabulous career and the white picket fence when they want it.

    Alas the younger ones often refuse to learn. Insisting they would not make the same mistakes.

    The many divorces amongst the gcgs suggests hyoergamy and discontent reign.

    Use her to teach error.

  140. monkeywerks

    “I just wanted to make things clear I didn’t “sleep around.” Most of my relationships have been long term I have only been with 18 guys”

    Sounds like a woman I was recently dating. But she only had 10, right. She could not understand why I refused to marry her. – Baffling isn’t it? lol.

  141. Cail Corishev

    In the dating hierarchy for white guys, I’m pretty sure that Indian women are *well* below even black women.

    No. If she’s fit and attractive, there would be plenty of white men who would marry her, even now; and there would have been more when she was in her prime. Not as many as wanted to marry her white friends, perhaps, but still plenty. However, they wouldn’t be the high-SMV alphas she spent the last 14 years carouseling with; they’d mostly be IT nerds and the like, who are probably still invisible to her.

    But most of all, it’s clear from her story that she wasn’t interested in marriage, and the men she slept with responded accordingly. She may have been marriage-minded in a vague, “someday” sense; and she’s certainly marriage-minded now; but she wasn’t when she was sleeping with 1-2 guys per year. She’s not married because she didn’t want to get married, period.

  142. Cail Corishev

    Prodigal daughter trying to get home for a do-over. Unfortunately, there is no certain road between here and there. Note the last quote here. She wants what comes only from following her parents advice, but she wants to get it “her way”.

    Great point. A true prodigal daughter would throw herself on the mercy of her parents, let them find a husband for her as they apparently did for her sister, beg him to accept her despite her past, and then thank God every day for her second chance. She doesn’t want the “leftover” guy from her town back home whom none of the other girls wanted, though. She went off and got edumacated and sophisticated; she should get the pick of the litter, not the runt! She’s still hoping one of those 18+ cool, fit, wealthy guys she put out for will come back and carry her away.

  143. monkeywerks

    Why do other men bust my balls for demanding a woman with a low N? A woman with more than 3 is just gross. I will still P&D her, but for a relationship or any tupe of investment, no freaken way. But why do other men get so enraged when I explain this to them?

  144. Farm Boy

    All in all, I think that is a fair punishment.

    But do the husband and children deserve the punishment also?

  145. Cautiously Pessimistic

    I think the newest show I’ve watched is Big Bang Theory…

    I wonder if there’s a redpill guy in the writer pool for that show. The asexual aspie and uber-nerdgirl have the healthiest relationship on that show (note that the bar is set very low for that comparison… it’s not a healthy relationship, but it’s the healthiest), and though it’s mocked regularly, it actually follows some redpill/christian thinking. They’re both virgins, the girl’s desperately into the guy, the guy is aloof (or more accurately, mostly oblivious and occassionally aloof), they’re taking the relationship seriously, even if no one else is… There’s even spanking, fer crying out loud.

    Of course, this might all have changed in the newest season (I don’t watch it live), but seems to me that’s a lot healthier than the nerdling chasing after the alpha-widow, or the geek who married a substitute mom. Or Raj.

  146. bert

    “No, she didn’t know that.”

    Yes. She did. Her brother married a nice girl from temple. Her sister stayed a virgin and married someone good as well.

    She knew perfectly well, and I will absolutely take pleasure in her suffering.

  147. OffTheCuff

    Nova: “Is sex with one guy per year really that high a number given our sexual mores? I don’t think so. I mean, for people like us who value chastity, it blows the roof off the house, so to speak, but for seculars who embrace the current culture, sex with one guy per year, plus one or two, isn’t something that sounds extreme.”

    I think it’s a lot, and I’m secular, and not all that picky about monogamy.

    The female lifetime median is 3. You are mixing up the people who lead the culture, vs. how most practices it. We simply don’t preach what we practice.

    If everyone she knows also has a high N that’s six to ten times the median, then that says more about the company she chooses to keep, than the entire US.

    One partner per year tells you all you need to know about how “Long” they think long-term is. They have the relationship skills of a high-schooler.

    So it’s high, and she has lots of company. But it’s still high. To think otherwise is a like person who makes 250K thinking she’s “middle class” because all her friends make a million per year, and have 4 vacation houses in elite areas like Block Island, instead of just one on the Vineyard.

  148. Farm Boy

    If they want to do something useful in sex-ed class, they should explain that guys do not want to marry sluts.

    But I am sure that since they would consider such a notion a “social construct”, that it never would be taught.

    Of course, it is not a social construct.

  149. Wibbins

    I’m glad that I was able to snatch up a girl while we were both in High school, I’m actually getting married in 4 days after being together for 6 years through HS and college. I’m 22, and she’s 21 so most of our “odd” years were spent together, most of our firsts (real “date”, proms etc.) were together, and our relationship is not built on sex unlike many relationships. I won’t be making as much when she starts teaching, 30k(ish) for beginning teachers, but since I work in the pest control industry I’ll eventually have the opportunity to be a pest tech which can make 30k+ (Im not college material so I started looking for a job that’d pay enough to get married and provide for her while she’s looking for a teaching job)

    Oh, and as an aside, when we turned in applications for my apartment the look on the managers face when we asked “since she’s not moving in until after we get married do we need to put her on the lease before or after”, it was hilarious. People nowadays think you should live with your potential wife/husband; 1 night when she was here cleaning, with me on the computer it totally clicked why a guy would never feel rushed to marry someone that cleaned for him, gave him sex(not in my case yet), and cooked for him, why would he risk half of his stuff, and risk her stopping the BC after marriage to have children when he could live like an adolescent man-child with his sex toy as a maid/second mother.

  150. Farm Boy

    She is placing much blame on the fact that she is of Indian blood. I would think that this is mostly an excuse. If she is pretty, she is pretty. If she has attractive attributes, she has attractive attributes

  151. Farm Boy

    Wibbins,

    Did you get caught in a time warp? If so, may I suggest you go back, as things were better then than now.

  152. Cail Corishev

    The female lifetime median is 3.

    Says who? I’ve been hearing that number for at least a couple decades, so even if it was true when I first heard it (which it probably wasn’t, or should have been run through the “divide men by 3 and multiply women by 3″ filter), it seems awfully unlikely that it’s true now.

  153. Mary Ellen (@WorkingHomeKpr)

    “She is placing much blame on the fact that she is of Indian blood. I would think that this is mostly an excuse.”

    I would agree with this. I’m Black (American) and dated white men exclusively. In my experience, it wasn’t difficult to find white men interested in marrying someone outside of their race.

  154. OffTheCuff

    I’ve posted the CDC report here multiple times, and SSM has even put it into a post: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

    It’s amazing what you can find when you fully read papers that actually explain in great detail their data-collecting methodology, what activity counts as a partner, expected error, the sample size, and so on.

    I’ve yet to see anyone come up with *better* data. The best anyone’s come up amounts to “nah, it’s bullshit”.

  155. alcestiseshtemoa

    Farm Boy

    December 31, 2013 at 11:39 am

    She is placing much blame on the fact that she is of Indian blood. I would think that this is mostly an excuse. If she is pretty, she is pretty. If she has attractive attributes, she has attractive attributes

    It’s not necessarily an excuse. Most people tend to marry within their own ethnic, socio-cultural, status and racial groupings but in the exceptional small cases of interracial stuff, there’s a trend even there (in that small setting).

    For example, most white guys tend to marry white girls, but the small number who marry outside their race only seem to choose East Asian women (e.g. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Taiwanese), and tend to ignore Middle Eastern women (Western Asian) and South Asian women (Indian, Bangladeshi).

    The reasons I think is because Middle Eastern women are Muslim (scary to white guys) and South Asian women tend to have brown skin (which tends to repel most white guys too, they don’t tend to like darker girls).

  156. Bike Bubba

    Regarding upper middle class and upper class alpha widows, I remember any number of friends in college who basically trashed their lives by sleeping around. Mrs. Leif Erikson that we talked about may be one, and it’s worth noting that at a certain point, Miss Kate Upton may be becoming one. The latter is a great picture of why one doesn’t want to waste youth on fooling around. Every eligible man knows that if he dates her, she just might not be thinking of him when that special time comes. Ouch!

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  158. alcestiseshtemoa

    Of course, the Indian girl who got dumped is no Melinda Shankar (a Canadian-Indian actress who has more brown skin than her) and this one who slept with 18 white guys tends to slightly resemble Kim Kardashian.

  159. alcestiseshtemoa

    Farm Boy

    December 31, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Wibbins,

    Did you get caught in a time warp? If so, may I suggest you go back, as things were better then than now.

    The past decades was only the beginning before today, and hence the problems were already therein as well.

  160. Amber

    I understand all this and I lived it. Now I’m 65 and with no partner. That, I regret. However, with the US being what it is today: well down the road to totalitarianism and then communism -I am very very glad I never had any children.

  161. sunshinemary Post author

    For those interested in the topic of Interracial Marriage, Pew Research has a fairly comprehensive report from last year on the matter. An interesting aside is that the research was compiled by a professor who was a graduate advisor of mine:

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/02/16/the-rise-of-intermarriage/

    In any event, Whites are the least likely to “out” marry, but because Whites makes up the majority of the population at present, the majority of inter-racial marriages involve a White person. White men have always been and still are the least likely to out-marry, though it seems from the report that they are increasingly willing to do so.

    When White men out marry, they are most likely to marry Hispanic women, followed by Asian women; when they out marry, they are statistically least likely to marry Black women.

    Currently, around 2% of White men are married to non-White women; in 2010, 9% of White men who married did so with an other-race woman. Therefore, it is more likely now than in the past that White men will out marry, but the odds of this happening are still relatively low. A non-White woman who wishes to marry would be wise to bear that in mind as she is in the dating market. Here is an easy way she can make sure that she doesn’t end up as an exotic f-ck toy for White men (actually, this is an easy way for ALL women to make sure they don’t end up as any man’s human sex toy):

    Do not have sexual relations with men you are not married to. Problem solved.

    [Note: facts imply nothing about morality, and I am not reporting these facts as a moral statement. I do not care one way or the other if people marry outside their race. We have an interracial (White husband/Korean wife) attending our NYE get-together tonight, for example. My only issue is that people should be free to express the preference to marry within their own race; at present, White people are not allowed to express that preference without social censure. All other races are allowed to express that preference, of course.]

  162. Cail Corishev

    OffTheCuff, when data is necessarily self-reported, “it’s bullshit” is probably the most reasonable response. If the suggestion is that women as a group are no more promiscuous than they were 20 years ago, am I going to believe the CDC’s report on what women told them, or my own lying eyes?

    But as to your point, I agree that 18 is probably still high. High compared to the general population, though, which includes all the women who married early to their first or second partner. But would it be high compared to her peers: attractive 32-year-old career women who never married? I’m not so sure about that. When I think of the single 30-something women I know well enough to have an idea about their sexual history, they generally had a boyfriend of one sort or another since high school. Most relationships nowadays aren’t chaste. So it’s not too hard to add it up: one woman had three boyfriends starting at age 17, married the fourth one, divorced after three years, and has had four boyfriends since then. That’s 8, not counting any one-night stands or flings that didn’t last long enough for me to notice.

    So if a woman is single at 32, and she didn’t just get divorced after a 14-year marriage to her high-school sweetheart, and she hasn’t been living in a traditionalist commune for her adulthood, and she’s reasonably attractive, I’d expect her N to be around 10 or more. I’m not saying that’s acceptable, just that it’s the reality. There are outliers, of course; I’m not saying there are none whose N is honestly 3 or less. But they’re rare today among single women, so unless a woman gives me a reason to think she’s different, I’m going to assume she fits the usual serial monogamist profile — a string of sexual relationships varying in length from a few weeks to a few years, spanning the years since she started at 17 or so.

  163. Farm Boy

    Where I was born, it is lily white. There just is not much mixing. So whites will marry whites. With minorities though, there is much more mixing (I.e. individual meetings) going on because of proximity to other groups, if nothing else. So rates do not necessarily reveal what they seem.

  164. Mary Ellen (@WorkingHomeKpr)

    ” an easy way she can make sure that she doesn’t end up as an exotic f-ck toy for White men (actually, this is an easy way for ALL women to make sure they don’t end up as any man’s human sex toy):

    Do not have sexual relations with men you are not married to. Problem solved.”

    Indeed!

    “My only issue is that people should be free to express the preference to marry within their own race; at present, White people are not allowed to express that preference without social censure. All other races are allowed to express that preference, of course.”

    Even though I’m a Black woman married interracially to a white man, I don’t have a problem with other people expressing their preference to date/marry within their race. Among our friends, we have other WM/BW couples, but also couples where both are white. We know those individuals would probably not make the choice to marry outside of their race. We respect their choice, just as they respect ours.

  165. Bike Bubba

    Farm Boy, I’m thinking that State’s chances depend on whether they dictate the terms of the game to Stanford. If they keep them off balance like they did thost stinky weasels and worthless nuts, they’ll do well. On the flip side, if it becomes a thinking man’s game, it’ll be like the Notre Dame debacle.

    Bullough’s suspension could be a real problem in that regard, I’m thinking. So I agree witht he line–Stanford favored–but think that the actual outcome will be nowhere near that close. It’ll be ugly for one team.

  166. OffTheCuff

    Cail, it’s pretty clear you haven’t read the report. There are large high-N cohorts, broken out by age, race, martial, status, education, etc. The median for US women 15-44 is still around 3. If you want to argue that different cohort (single 30-somethings) act differently, that’s fine, but that’s a different thing than the overall median across the whole population.

    In which case you’d be wrong, since they break out that cohort anyway, and the medians don’t come even close to 18.

    So I’ll beleive the data over your anecdotes, and trust me, I’ve had some “fun” that would blow most people’s minds. I just don’t extrapolate that fun onto everyone.

  167. Farm Boy

    For example, if one went to India, the few whites there are probably much more likely to be married to a different race than would so the local majority. It all depends on the context.

  168. alcestiseshtemoa

    Somehow, I get the impression that the average American girl has a sexual partner count over single digits (+10) with urban vs, suburban vs. rural divide, SES, ethnicity, language, and culture all factored in. I don’t know whether that’s statistical, or watching too much television on occasion.

  169. Cail Corishev

    I live in a fairly conservative, rural part of the country. The women I’m talking about who have N’s in the 10+ range come from decent middle or lower-middle class families, mostly church-going (Churchian, but they go) folks. They’re all high school or college graduates. About half have parents who are still together.

    So maybe I just attract the sluttiest girls around. I guess that’s possible. Or women 15-44 don’t tell the truth about their promiscuity even to anonymous polls. But thanks for that CDC link; when I have more time I’ll look at some of those cohorts. I don’t suppose they broke out “attractive” versus “non-attractive,” but on the other scores it’ll be interesting to see what single women self-reported. After all, that’s what matters to men looking to marry — how promiscuous are the single women we have to choose from? Knowing that there are cohorts of N=1 women who married young is heartening, but has nothing to do with our situation.

  170. Elspeth

    A non-White woman who wishes to marry would be wise to bear that in mind as she is in the dating market. Here is an easy way she can make sure that she doesn’t end up as an exotic f-ck toy for White men (actually, this is an easy way for ALL women to make sure they don’t end up as any man’s human sex toy):

    Interesting thought as it was one of the foremost thoughts in my mind when I was a young woman waiting tables to put myself through college and a white cop took a shine to me. He came daily for lunch, refusing to be waited on by anyone but me. I never went out with him when he asked precisely because I pictured myself as nothing more than an exotic novelty.

    When my daughter was asked out by a white boy, the thought never entered her mind. She just wasn’t attracted to him. We live in a very diverse area where it’s becoming increasingly common to see white men married to colored women across the board. Women like Mary Ellen are rare, but hardly nonexistent here.

    WM/BW are definitely a minority among IR couples, but they don’t surprise me like they did maybe 5 years ago. There’s even such a couple at my church. They bug me because he clearly let her choose the church, LOL.

    TC was authored by and the comment box was populated by colored women in IR marriages with white men; me, Velvet and Hearth being the exceptions. Time are a’changin’.

    But I agree with Sunshine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with white men expressing a clear preference for women within their own race for wives. This 32 year-old Indian woman made a tactical error and now she has to live with the consequences. It’s wrong of her to blame these white men for not wanting to marry her. She gambled. She lost. It’s the nature of gambling.

  171. Anonymous Reader

    Wibbens
    …since I work in the pest control industry I’ll eventually have the opportunity to be a pest tech which can make 30k+ (Im not college material so I started looking for a job that’d pay enough to get married and provide for her while she’s looking for a teaching job)

    If we were talking face to face, I’d shake your hand, look you in the eye and congratulate you for “doing it the right way”. I’d also point out that one of the true, cash-in-the-bank millionaires I know is a plumber who started working for someone else, and then bought his own truck (for cash) in order to start his own business. He now has multiple trucks, many employees, and a very large house in a good part of town (paid for with cash).

    He was his own boss before he was 30, in stark contrast to some of his classmates who are still in cube farms. Oh, and his wife was a teacher – she’s retired, now, and he sorta kinda is retired as well.

  172. feeriker

    Aquinas Dad said The strongest pushback I get is from a friend who has told me several times ‘my husband and I wish we had married younger and had more kids when we were able, but we put everything off until we had masters’ and then ‘my daughters MUST have degrees! MUST! They aren’t allowed to date at all until they have a bachelors!’.

    I’ m now thoroughly convinced that the obssessive fixation of so many psrents on college degrees is a subconscious form of revenge, particularly among parents who hold graduate degrees. More people than will ever dare admit it to themselves or anyone else hold degrees that they WASTED both tens of thousands of dollars and years of their lives on – and yet which ultimately gained them NOTHING of real substance in their professional and personal lives (and yes, this includes STEM degrees too).

    So why do parents put their children through an expensive, wasteful, unnecessary hell that they should be helping and encouraging them to avoid? Because of a combination of vanity and resentment. “Vanity” because they can’t let their children be less “credentialed” than the Jones’s children next door (even though the Jones kids remain un(der)employed five years after getting their pricey STEM degrees). “Resentment” because if Mom and Dad had to suffer by sinking thousands of dollars and precious life years into college, then dammit, their kids will suffer too, even if they have to forego entrepreneurial opportunities or chances for productive and remunerative work in order to do it!

    I will admit that it might be an unbiblical undermining of my daughter’s babymomma authoriteh, but I have told my grandson on more than one occasion that he should not repeat his grandfather’s mistake and earn a college degree simply because it is “expected of him.” Socioecomic conditions enabled such frivolous foolishness in the past,, but no longer is this the case.

  173. Wild Man

    Ah yes SSM but your compassion is wasted on enemies who do not share it. Save it for the repentant and let the dead bury their own dead. Just as we shall see, our nation will go on re-electing liberal leaders until they die. So too, the fairer sex will go on resisting the created order until it leads them to the very, if self-imposed, abandonment and solitude they fear most from men.

  174. Poder

    Farm Boy says:

    “She is placing much blame on the fact that she is of Indian blood. I would think that this is mostly an excuse.”

    I agree with this. The reason she is having a hard time getting married now is because of her age and extensive sexual experience; her being Indian is a minor reason. If she was 22, had 2-3 partners and was as fit and attractive as she says she is, she would have been able to marry a quality man of any race.

    The reason men didn’t propose to her in the past was because a) based on her attitude, it was clear she wasn’t looking for marriage, b) the men she was dating weren’t looking for marriage and c) marriage minded men wouldn’t consider her because she was promiscuous.

    It is true that some white men won’t marry an Indian woman and that she would have to work harder than a white woman but there are many white men that are open to marrying an Indian woman and some may have a preference for it. Even now if she wanted to marry a white man based on what she has said about herself, she could do so. It is only that the man she could marry now won’t be as good as a man she could’ve gotten when she was younger.

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  176. feeriker

    And white guys don’t consider me someone they would marry because I am not white.”

    Once again, for you and all the other small schoolbus riders out there who cannot grasp the concept of Cause and Effect to save your lives:

    No man of ANY race/ethnicity will marry you now. Why not? Recall an old expression that involves a cow that gives all of its milk away for free, to just about anyone that wants it, and the question arising of why anyone would buy said cow under such circumstances.

    Spin the wheel, little hamster, spin it.

  177. Ton

    I have yet to meet the good looking non White chick who couldn’t land a White man if she wanted. Don’t care what the numbers say

    I reckon a real problem is… most folks don’t notice or cannot gage average or better then average looks of another race. You can pick out the hotties, but not real average the grade

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  179. Robert

    Sunshine, I too take no pleasure in this woman’s pain. However I would never White Knight her because of that. (The old pre-redpill me would have in a heartbeat.)

    Just like us guys have been lied to from the word “go”, so have the girls, but in a different way. They were told they could have it all when they wanted, how they wanted without compromises. We guys were told we should be nice, caring, sensitive white knights in order to be attractive to women. If she is a bad person for falling for the lies, than so am I.

    I do agree with those who say that if she does eventually get married, the guy is in for a sexless marriage – assuming it even lasts.

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  181. susanbotchie

    Am not at all shocked at the knee JERK reaction of [P]ox Day and the other whine-bag masculists, gloating over the decades ahead of these deceived women. Or is the reality more like these mgtow basement dwellers aren’t getting any because mamma grew a spine and told her 27 year old (still at) home boy to get a job and get his own play money. Yes, this is a fact. Way too many 20-something men milch off mom – then move in with a lonely 30-something, because mommy finally put her foot down about what goes on in her house, on her internet.

  182. Farm Boy

    These under-achieving fellas have little incentive to work and be productive. The women of the age cohort are all off chasing after the same sexy men. One can easily survive off of a stipend from the parents or a modest job. Then it is off to the video games. I have two nephews who “married” each other. They bought a small house together, work modest jobs, play video games and have forsaken women. Based on the incentives, as much as I would like to say otherwise, it is a rational decision.

  183. FuzziWuzzie

    Captain Capitalism boiled it down to three big incentives that are lost to present day young men. First, good job prospects to afford the nest two, Second, marriage to someone who’ll take her commitment seriously. Third, children resulting from the marriage.
    Thee are the unintended consequences of caving into feminism and it’ll get worse before it starts getting better.

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